Thanks everyone for the input really appreciate it
I have an anecdote I like to share with newcomers.
when I am listening to a headphone, Iām listening to it because I wanted toā¦whether itās inexpensive or costs a bit. when I am using them, they are my end game. while I have listened to what people call summit-fi (vs. low-fi, mid-fi and hi-fi) and know how good, amazing, breathtaking and drool worthy they sound, thatās not what Iām thinking about at that moment. Iām reveling in the sound those headphones are giving me and enjoying the groove on Iām in at that time. Iām not criticizing them and thinking how much better the summit-fi is / was, Iām focused at that moment on the music thatās making me happy.
that said, there is going to be a dividing line between good sound and bad sound due to the quality of the product being used. there are a lot of winning products under $100, but there are waaay more bad products than good unfortunately. I share this as you could find yourself in a situation where youāre thinking your sound is such garbage that you are wishing for something better, because you have heard better.
I refer to the knowing of better, to having been ācorruptedā.
reading threads and articles like this, I will pine, long and desire the summit-fi I have experience, knowing I likely will never ever afford something like that. but as the saying goes, better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
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100% agreed with what marzipan said.
Also we could give you better recommendations: what do you like the most about the sundara? and what do you think it could do better?
Elex is amazing tho, tried it once.
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sundara cannot do anything better sundara is an angel descended from heaven it is airy and natural with forward mids and bass that knows when to come in and does but never comes in when itās not needed
the only possible thing one could dare to say about sundara is that the soundstage is not wide enough but this is also a lie those heathens are all smited and surely I do not think this 
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I think the sundara has good natural tonality, the mid range is good the bass is not overpowering but also not absent it is a good headphone all around donāt get me wrong.
i think it could have a little bit better soundstage for being open back i also notice some songs i feel like i can hear hissing but maybe thats because of the way the song was recorded but i really have to listen hard to hear it.
where i am from we donāt have any places that sell audiophile headphones for me to try out, so just like these i wonāt be able to try those out either before i buy.
hope this helps
I am not saying these headphones suck because they do not, I was using the sennheiser hd 598 sr before this those headphones in my opinion were far more comfortable to wear to me than these sundara but they lacked the neutral tonality and mid range and other things that the sundara do well.
The sundara are my second pair of audiophile headphones. but i know there is the next level or as i and probably others say end game and without spending 1,000$ or more just trying to find my end piece where i can say this is it for me i donāt need or want anything else and yes i know im going down a rabbit hole here with headphones and dacs and amps lol.
I was using these headphones with a zen dac but then i bought the power supply for it and 2 weeks later my zen dac was acting up sent it in for warranty IFI said they replaced the main board.
And by no means do i plan of getting rid of my sundara, heck is till have my 598 sr in a box even though i donāt use them.
by the way thanks everyone for your help so far really appreciate it
If you can find it, Audeze 2 pre-fazor is pretty much the $600 end game.
So actually iām also looking for a sundara āupgradeā, In my case I donāt have them anymore. Iāll most likely get the ananda but they are too similar to the sundaras to justify having both.
Its hard to look for that upgrade in the $600 budget, I agree they are a very hard to replace angel sent from the skies.
The elex I do consider as an upgrade, but it is extremely punchy so please try to audition it or the elear/clear (they are kinda similar) to see if you dig that.
The other options mentioned in this thread are also highly regarded, Iād really love to get me both the esp95x and the ad2000x but my wallet cries.
In my case the dt1990 were too fatiguing, so I got a beyerdynamic T1.2 which is more laid back. Comparing the T1.2 to the sundaras they have a noticeably larger soundstage and more precise imaging, but they donāt feel nearly as open/effortless (which may be due to my gear) and arenāt tonaly balanced.
Good luck man
Another vote for Elex. I have Clears and have heard Elex are very similar.
Drop has refurb Elex in stock for $575.
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I love how you recommend the SR2s to everyone 
you may have really found your end game bro, they are way hard to find for audition
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I do not recommend them to everyone. Every time I bring them up, it is because I analyzed what the OP is looking for. If somebody is looking for a warm headphone or a very open headphone, I will not recommend the SR2.
I am not paid in any way to promote it. I truly just enjoy them that much. Another reason why I bring them up is because they are very underrated, not many people know about them, so I mention them to acknowledge their existence. This helps the OP to be aware of the options out there.
There are many people in this hobby who never get satisfied and never find their endgame, I feel completely satisfied with the SR2. I donāt want people to think that I am paid by the manufacturer to promote the headphone, because that is not the case.
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@AppleofMyDroid you ok with buying used? What source gear (DAC, Amp, preamp, etcā¦) are you using? Thatās going to be a larger factor in the choice of cans as you go further up the price ladder.
Is 600 a hard maximum? If youāre looking for what you termed as āEndgameā then youāll need to stretch the budget a bit further. Based on what youāve said you liked about the sundaras, without respect to your source gear, and with a bit of budget stretching I think a used HD800 would be a good choice ($850 used)ā¦
For an option with some of that same hifiman sound, the ananda would probably be good ($550 used) (disclaimer : I have not heard an ananda personally, but I have had the sundara, 400i, hexv2, and arya)ā¦
For a little different sound, and purportedly less in line with your preferences, the DT 1990 might be worth checking out ($600).
Elegias fit the bill for sound, but are closed back.
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I hear you bru, I didnt mean you recommend literally to everyone but it came across as that.
Its a shame they are hard to try out and not easily available in every country, I get a similar feeling from my ath-wp900 they are expensive to import and dont get the public eye they deserve. Also endgame to me (for portables) and wouldnt recommend to everyone.
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How can they be lightly worn after 10h ?
Heck. My 6XX have been used like many many many hours and even the ELEX have been used at least 60h and they both look ālike newā. No pad wear visible, no ear shapes, no wear or anything else. Some dust bits yes but thatās easy clean.
Are the 800 pads like soft toffee or something?
No theyāre not and the amount of wear in the photos look pretty par for the course for 10 hours of playtime + storage.
Also, you need to chill on the negativity and attitude dude. There are many ways you can say you donāt like the ad that donāt come across as snide. Could also be constructive and follow the point of the thread by adding a different ad for the headphone instead of derailing with snide comments about the seller of the specific ad.
lol.
We all different. We all accept others or shouldā¦ or not.
Some are more positive and some more negative and some very real.
You are being a dick if not accepting some being negative or moodier than someone happy like in good pill trip.
So think that for a minute.
You could use ur nickname and put it in action. lol
I generally was wondering will 10h of wear show like that. 
We have this saying āpissing them off is caringā and its normal. So itās all cool.
Oh you added text.
Another vote for Elex then.
Being very constructive and following the point of the thread. Happy happy.
@Pr3ssAltF4 i currently have a magnius and modius on order for my new cans and thank you for those recommendations and seriously thought thanks to everyone for these recommendations lets not fight in here please.
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I believe the primary instigator has been removed from the forums. I donāt anticipate any issue in the future.
I do have to make a comment, $600 end game doesnāt exist. $600 pause point totally does.
The end game doesnāt exist.
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Lol @DagoRed that Iās a valid point I will have to call it pause point from now on just know the next pair I do buy will be my last for awhile.
like I want to be able to say that the only thing I can get thatās better than this is 1,000$ plus and out of my price range like I know after I bought the sundaes there was obviously something better I could afford.
Thanks for your input
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You will find over time you will have different gear for different music. Iām HOPING my latest purchase has the synergy Iām looking for when my gear comes back. But after using some of my more budget gearā¦ I can say flat out the Bifrost 2 honestly was one of my best purchases Iāve made to date. Before you plan whatās next, I can honestly say that a good DAC can really open up a world of possibilities so I would plan for that before you buy headphones in the future.
Favorites in sub $1000 catagory (no order):
- Airist R2R
- Bifrst 2
- Soekris anything you can find
- Denafrips Ares II (new or used anything is good)
- Holo Audio Cyan (used if you can find it)
Yes things get pricey, but its a short list of things to drool over and watch for āthe next levelā.
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