Bad Guy Good Audio Rankings and stuff (under construction) (Part 2)

You are very close in some of your observations…and they are essentially correct in regards to…

I’m a mechanical engineer by trade but I minored in physics…primarily in differential geometry and manifolds…Frobenius… so though I know the basics of EE…I would not be able to hold my own in a conversation with one…those electrical fuckers would skin me alive

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Wow that got technical, for me size does not matter it what you do with it. As long as it makes my endorphins run and rattles my teeth. I’m good. :smiling_imp::fire: Bring on the Hades

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Looking at your stature…you got the size and the “do with it” all sewed up

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Several years back in the headphone space ZMF came out with the Verite and Verite closed. they have a proprietary 20% Beryllium-coated PEN (polyethylene Naphthalate) driver. 300Ohm ~99dB/mW The driver itself is not the biggest thing but the amount of sound it pushed into you was insane. The material sciences side would be how the pads and wave guides changed the sound so drastically. Another huge variable is the kind of wood used and how that changed note decay. At the time the other counterpart with a full Beryllium driver was the Focal Utopia/Stellia 35Ohm ~106dB/mW , but used metals and plastics for the cups. The materials were another variable that altered the tonality. Scale of the mechanism producing the sound will have a direct correlation on its limits.

The Twilight looks like an engineering marvel, Something I would love to try along side my EJ07. The guide @ToneDeafMonk did made it even more clear how synergy is a huge part of the chain.

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I feel like I need to take responsibility for the whole debate going on, oops :sweat_smile: I did NOT intend for it to get this involved!!!

I agree with much of your writeup, it’s a very balanced viewpoint. And it’s similar to the one I hold.

I think people misunderstood me. I never said that small drivers and large drivers behave the same, but rather that seeing a large driver and assuming better bass is, once again, a very reductionist way of looking at things.

At IEM scale, in a highly sealed system with a tiny enclosed volume, the level of excursion a driver undertakes is minimal. Fractions of a mm at most, nothing like a speaker in a room. The added surface area of a large driver means that sure, it doesn’t have to move as much to reach high SPL, but the excursions are so small that even a small driver is barely moving already. Of course, if you listen extremely loudly, or the tuning is very bass boosted, then sure, you MAY run into some problems. But the volume you run into problems at depends on much more than just the diameter. And regarding infrasonic, that is something that is FELT, not heard. When it comes to the confines of your ear canal, feeling it becomes a lot less likely.

There’s also the never ending debate on what good bass IS. Is it punchy and fast? Heavy and meaty? There’s a lot of opinions on the matter and each opinion will have a person have their own take on driver design. Should the diaphragm be as light as possible for high sensitivity/speed? Or rigid and weighty for more inertia and impact? Does it even matter in reality? There’s a nightmarish number factors to think about, size included.

I’m not even going to touch the concept of vibration because that is incredibly convoluted.

And then there’s the issue of distortion, love it or hate it. A well designed, say, 10mm driver will keep up with an average designed 14mm driver until extreme volumes, where the 10mm reaches its max excursion and starts clipping. Once again, it’s all about implementation and design.

All I’m saying realistically is that people are too worried about the numbers. It’s not fair to look at a smaller driver (or a BA even) and immediately discount it as having poor bass, or seeing a large one and instantly being interested. It’s the same as driver count - people seem to have understood lately that more drivers does NOT necessarily mean better. It CAN mean better, but better is not guaranteed. Same with driver size. Ear acoustics and room acoustics are two different beasts. Not every concept from speakers can be copied directly to the IEM world.

Once again, I apologise for any heated discussion created as that wasn’t my intention. I see both sides of the story, and while I don’t 100% agree with everything said on both sides, nothing said has been entirely nonsensical. I can understand the reasoning behind almost every point made.

My closing point, and my final say on this matter is this: Just listen to the damn thing! Don’t let a spec sheet cloud your judgement (and this goes beyond driver size, relying on specifications too much), much of the fun of the hobby comes from new experiences. Form your opinions on how the sound makes you feel. Because that’s what it’s all about - good sound. Expect the unexpected. Let yourself be pleasantly surprised with some things you expected to hate, and disappointed with things you thought you’d love.

Peace :v:

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Well said bro. Though I did enjoy the tangent and deep dive into the physics. Took me back to college, lol.

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Well you just did…
Vibration is a “concept”??
wtf does that even mean?
You can measure it to some degree, so it’s already 90% more accessible than bullshit terms like texture and layering which are master and production terms.
Can’t measure that
How convenient for fans that claim item “X” has exceptional texture and layering…layering…by a 10mm transducer
That’s simply replaying a produced effect.
It can be done
Or not
and that is subjective

Let me show you something very old and not subjective

The 70mm LEGEND eyeball shaking neck meat flapping boss set that every man needed to have…import…pay the piper…let the eyeballs shake

200wrtr

Shared the source,settings ,every single one
then did the other LEGENDs like Denon etc
All kinds of folks who were emotionally attached to headphones melted absolutely melted and said shit like….it needs to run off speaker taps…Ima do it myself and show the community

And they tried…and the ones with character came back and said damn…that’s hard to move…but most walked away.

what-gif-11

Same input…different output? Why?
Pad density, chambered driver
Simple
Transducer creates residual energy actually a symptom of inefficiency like the heat off a motor is literally lost energy.
That is passed through mounts to chassis through earpads
boom presto
A lot of energy or not

So again…the easiest phenom is waived off while everyone debates what is coming down to perception of the listener and in all the chatter nobody says fuck the theory…let me buy a thing and try and jimmy rig something to prove or disprove my own theory.

Lazy

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Vibration is measurable, yes. Perhaps my use of the word “concept” was bad but I just meant the whole idea of vibration and how it plays into bass sensation. The idea of how sound energy and physical vibration relate to each other, and how driver design affects that. This was never meant to downplay your recent efforts in quantifying vibration, but more that it is such a complex field in its own right that it almost would need a writeup of its own. It’s not laziness, it’s just a whole other can of worms. Picking out this specific statement to complain about is really just ignoring my overall point.

I don’t see the need for anyone to be “right”. There’s already more than enough hostility in the hobby.

When it comes to things like this, why can’t we hold different priorities and opinions, yet still get along?

:v:

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Basic bass maths…

=

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This is “getting along”
I think good actual Discourse requires trust…that the topic is the topic and personal has nothing to do with it. So feelings are gonna get hurt (leave pride and feelings in pocket before entering)
Autism and being a debate team member just removed my soul in that regard maybe? :melting_face:

I respect what you do.
I am enthused to buy your next piece of work because the tuning is unique and kinda brilliant that i have seen.

This was just bass talk. :slight_smile:

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Good day everyone!
The first experience of polishing the case, I think it turned out well, I’ll try again to use polishing paste. It was difficult to polish manually because the resin is hard…I will not additionally apply varnish on top, as I want to transfer the vibration from the earphone case to the ear as much as possible)


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Bruh i can’t even polish for shit. Just using warnish :face_with_spiral_eyes:

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That looks dope.
Waiting to buy :grinning: :notes:

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Bro, sandpaper from 2500 to 7000 grit.

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I stop at 2000grit i think :skull_and_crossbones:, well the curves are also complex, so there’s that…
:+1:

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waiting for somebody to make something like an isine with DD. I want some 30mm slammers!! :triumph:

That makes 4 people interested in my idea then :disguised_face:

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something affordable :wink:

I can’t afford my own madness :rofl:

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You sure do :slightly_smiling_face: I had to throw up the :white_flag: at one point

nice goin :handshake:

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