Cables: Do they make a difference, and if so, what do you like?

Unless you live in a microwave analog cabling shouldn’t make a difference unless the runs are long enough and balanced interconnects usually solve most problems. Usb cables, now bare with me, can make a difference if the USB implementation on either end is schiity. Most well designed DACs don’t have drastic improvements with audiophile USB cables.

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Yup, size matters (hehehe…). The smaller cable, the better (oh…). Cough seriously now. Less cable length means less possibility of interferences and, obviously, loss of signal, loss of detail, etc. Go XLR for long runs, because this cable eliminates all the interferences (balanced = two exact same signals in one cable, so if there’s a difference at the end, it will be removed… or something like that).

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“Cough”. That made me laugh. Thank you.

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Norne audio cables are my favorite and go to always. For Amps dacs and speakers I always use blue Jean cables.

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UK?..then https://oidiosound.co.uk well made custom phone cables, sensibly priced too…will be ordering a new Mongrel Liz Cooper 6.35mm jacked one when I get back in 2 weeks time :+1:

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Cables certainly can make a difference: if they’re single-ended (3-wire) they create the high crosstalk problem that the “balanced”/bridged headphone amps and cables (4-wire) were designed to solve. :slight_smile:

Now will the difference be audible? Hard to say, as there’s no definitive data on the threshold of crosstalk audibility, but it’s more probable you will hear it the lower your headphone driver impedance is (so planars and 16-ohm IEMs are most likely to suffer from this) and the higher the common GND wire’s resistance is in the SE cable you’re upgrading from (like if the L and R return wires join together very soon after exiting the drivers, somewhere inside one of the cups let’s say, and then there’s a single GND wire running the whole length of the cable to the amp - this is one SE design that worsens the common ground resistance, and thus the crosstalk).

So with 16-ohm headphones as an example, we have:
Common ground path: 0.5 ohm (wire) + 0.1 ohm (connector)
L or R signal path: 16 ohm (driver) + 0.5 ohm (wire) + 0.1 ohm (connector) + 1 ohm (amp output, let’s say)

The crosstalk due to the voltage divider formed where the return wires join into a single GND is:
20*lg( V_common / V_total ) = 20*lg( R_common / R_total ) = 20*lg( 0.6 / (0.6+17.6) ) = -29 dB.

This might be enough to not hear stereo performance problems according to some people, while others like NwAvGuy said -60 dB was the ideal to strive for (but I’m seriously doubting this second number more and more as I look at the numbers, because only 600-ohm headphones - the most immune to this - can achieve this kind of separation, while everything lower than that we’re supposed to believe is audibly subpar for separation qualities like width and imaging, if running SE).

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But now the thought that has me excited, based on that voltage divider crosstalk math above, is: what if we remove the common GND wire from the cable and have the return wires from the cups join up as late as possible, i.e. at the GND terminal of the plug that goes into the amp? Well, that would move the common ground wire’s resistance from the common part to the driver part of the equation, making the crosstalk 20*lg( 0.1 / (0.1 + 18.1) ) = -45 dB!

That would be over 15 dB of improvement in the crosstalk, just from switching to a pseudo-balanced cable that has 4 wires for its entire length but terminates them with a TRS plug at the amp end (R- and L- both connect to the GND sleeve of the plug). You’d just change the cable and keep the SE amp you have, no need to buy balanced to get a big improvement in stereo separation. I definitely have to try this for my Verums after I get them, because that 1.8 ohm cable vs. the 8 ohm driver will not be doing me any favors on the crosstalk side.

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So here’s a way to tell - without destroying anything - if the single-ended cable you already have is 4-wire, i.e. well structured to minimize crosstalk, or has a Y-shaped GND with a significant undesirable portion of common-GND. Measure these 3 resistances:
HeadphoneCable
If R3=R1+R2, congratulations: it’s a healthy baby 4-wire. If R3 is significantly less than R1+R2 and your headphones are low-impedance (say, 32-ohm or less), you could benefit from getting a better cable, even while keeping your SE amp. (I just measured the stock HE-400i cable and it’s a healthy 4-wire, with 0.4-ohm GND wires on each side and 0.8 ohms when measured together in series from left to right; shows HiFiMan knew what they were doing on the electrical side of their cable build.)

LE:
Yes, for the particular cable in the picture you can already tell it has good structure because the portion below the joining point still looks like 2 independent 2-wire cables going all the way to the amp-side plug. :stuck_out_tongue: The above method is for when you can’t see this structure from the outside.

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I have just measured stock cable of drop.com Blon B20 HEADPHONE.
And both R1 =2.5ohm and R2=2.5ohm … while R3= 2 ohms only .
I think this is why I saw significant improvent in sound when bought the sendy balanced cable …
It was clear jump in left right seperation and clarity.
Thanx for the info
Change the stock blon cable everyone.

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Haha wow, those are some crap values there, not just for crosstalk but I suspect for (sub)bass levels as well. Drop should be ashamed of themselves, selling cables with 2.5 ohm wires. :slight_smile:
Did you hear an improvement in bass levels by any chance?

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sure it was deeper and refined …
but i guessed its the akm 4493 dac chip
because its well known for its bass and mids

Yeah no, I was asking only in case you had a chance to hear it with only the cable changed, not the amp. I had someone complain to me about the bass in their headphones, asked for my cable to try out, got better sound, then I measured them both, and his cable had way more resistance than mine. So I figured maybe it’s a general rule that going to a lower-resistance cable means better bass, just from that.

Frankly i oredered balanced 4.4 mm
SENDY Cable and have only one amp to try it on so now the benefits are comming from the new dac amp and the balanced cable together plus the balanced thing … :sweat_smile:

I’ve used SVS cables with some success.

@M0N or any of you with higher end systems ever experienced anything like this?

An interesting design and build by Jason of Custom Cans here in the UK…

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I make my own cables, interconnects, and power cables. I started about 1.5 years ago and have been replacing all the premade cables on my buds, IEMs, headphones, and speakers as well as the power cables and interconnects in my component rigs. I still keep a few cheap premades around for loaning out and such.

I have a hifi shop near me that makes custom cables and interconnects so I order parts and supplies through them and that lets me get pretty much any high end material I want for pretty cheap because they just add my stuff on to their bulk orders. I keep my shop/garage stocked with supplies for experimenting with different looks, braids, core/insulation materials, and terminations. Making my own cables gives me access to cables that match the highest quality stuff you can buy premade for generally significantly less money than what I’d have to pay on the open market. The mark-up on high end cables is amongst the steepest in head-fi gear.

All the money saving stuff aside, I find cable making to be fun. I have enjoyed learning about the benefits of various braids, twists, and designs and I love being able to customize and revise 'til my heart’s content. I have long been a headphone modder and DIYer and I’m surprised that I didn’t get in to cable making sooner.

P.S. With the internet, you don’t need a local hifi shop to stock up on cable making supplies. It might take you a little searching to find places with the quality components you’re looking for, but they’re out there. That said, if you have a local hifi/headphone shop that has parts catalogues and will order for you, I encourage people to go that route because you’re getting a known quality level and supporting an important resource that is becoming scarce. Always support your local shops when you can!

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And do you think they sound different from one another?

I have never been lucky enough to hear a difference between core materials and such. Quality cables all sound the same to me whether they are copper, spc, silver, palladium, etc. If a cable is made well from quality components it’s all good. My cable “upgrades” are based entirely on desires for better aesthetics, ergonomics, lengths, or terminations. Just for reference I have “heard” and/or owned cables that cost all the way up to the $2k+ region.

I would like to add that I trust other’s ears to tell them what they’re hearing just like I trust mine to tell me. If someone has done their due dilligence to isolate the variables to their satisfaction and they are hearing differences, I think that’s fine. On the one hand, I’m jealous that they’ve found another way to tweak and customize their rig’s sound, but on the other hand, my wallet thanks me for having avoided one audio rabbit hole at least lol! While I think there are companies out there selling snake oil BS, I don’t think there are many, if any, average joe/jill forum members hanging out and maliciously lying about hearing differences between cables.

I’ll end this by saying that I have heard power supplies/cables and usb cables lower noise floors and such. That said, I haven’t heard a difference in soundstage and imaging or anything like that between quality usb and power cables.

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@WaveTheory has just got one with the HE400seXY…

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