Do expensive headphones really sound better?

[Polygonhell]

@Chigyu

Please share any stories you have if you’ve ever been blown away by a pair of headphones.

Yes.
Focal Elex was the rabbit hole headphone for me, given what it sounded like I wanted to hear what higher end headphones sounded like.
ZMF Eikon was an eye openner for how open a closed back could sound.
Verite Closed was a surprising step in resolution.
The D8000Pro was the first Headphone to make Bass sound like it came from the actual instruments.
The Susvara Resolved better than anything else I’d heard
etc etc etc.

Now lets keep this all in perspective, at the same time I was working through all this, I also went from $100 DAC’s to $5000 DAC’s and $300 SS amps to $8000 tube amps.

I recently sold a ZDT Jr to another forum member, before I let it go, I plugged it into a Topping D10 DAC and listened with HD6XX, to verify it was fine, and it was a damn good experience, it’s not going to replace my high end gear, but if I couldn’t afford all the expensive stuff, I could be happy with that, or swap a SW51+ for the ZDT Jr.

Value is very much relative, no one can answer the value question, what something is worth to me, isn’t what it’s worth to you.

[WaveTheory]

Yes! They do sound better (usually). Props to the several forum members who have commented on the importance of signal chain. That really matters, especially as headphone price goes up.

What I’ve noticed is that as price goes up, there are smaller and smaller improvements in technical performance. In some sense, that is diminishing returns, but it also doesn’t tell the whole story. As price goes up, those smaller and smaller incremental improvements in technical performance translate in to larger and larger steps toward sounding natural or real. I can speak from experience with a couple examples. I’ve had the opportunity to listen to 4 Audeze LCD models (2 prefazor, X, 3 prefazor, 24). They’re all good. The 24 in many way offers slight technical improvements in terms of detail retrieval and frequency reponse. But, it’s way ahead of those others in making some instruments sound real - or at least closer to real. Similarly with HiFiMan, I’ve heard the Edition X V2, Arya, and HE1000V2. The Edition X V2 and Arya both cost around $1600 new (upon their launches, anyway), and the HE1000V2 is $3K. The HE1000V2 represents small improvements in technical abilities like detail retrieval, soundstaging, etc. - but that translates to a much more convincing and lifelike sound than the other 2. Now, yes, it does take higher quality amps and dacs to bring that out, so don’t forget that. And I’ll also reiterate what @Polygonhell said that the only person who can answer the value question for you is you.

[granularclouds]

One thing that maybe goes underdiscussed if only because it’s hard to compare, and few people if any have measurements of their hearing range and sensitivity, but a lot of whether the higher end stuff makes sense (notwithstanding spare change etc.) is how good your ears are. And this opens the even bigger can of worms about how everyone is different, wants different things (or slightly different things), and audio to begin with is a lot harder to differentiate than some other areas (like culinary taste even).

For some people, an m50x or HD6xx, both unamped and playing 320kbps, could be all they need.

Others might be more sensitive - in some cases a lot more sensitive - to more minor differences at every single level in the chain, from recording to encoding, interconnects and cables, DAC and amp, and of course the headphones themselves.

Second, until you’ve tried the best, it’s extremely hard to imagine what it might sound like. It’s even difficult to remember exactly what it sounded like moments after listening (google echoic memory). So ultimately all of these improvements are objectively either minor or physiologically difficult to either know intuitively (i.e. to imagine without having tried) or persist in memory (i.e. echoic memory).

This is a hobby after all. Some people would grimace at the thought of having to taste Jim Beam or Jack Daniels. Others wouldn’t drink anything else. There’s very little objectivity involved, owing to preference, sensitivity, experience, …

[init]

Totally agree with what you said.
I would add even more, some are more prone to being persuaded that something sounds different and even though there would be no physical differences in sound they would indeed hear the difference.

What I mean is, we hear not only with ears but also with brains (of course this is vastly more complicated, ears and brains are very vague terms).

The more people write in this thread the more I think the answer to the original question is only one:

It depends.

[pk500]

An increase in price usually equates to an increase in quality, but there are exceptions. And diminishing returns do kick in after a while.

For example, some of the Chinese factories selling direct to consumers are releasing products of INCREDIBLE value. I just bought the HiFiMan HE-400se International planar-magnetics, and they sound fantastic for their price of $150. I’ve heard $400 wireless (I know the 400se are wired) cans that sound far worse. I also have owned the M50x to which you referred in your original post, which also cost $150, and the 400se crush them in every area to my ears, at the same price.

My Moondrop Starfield IEMs – another product sold straight from a Chinese factory – punch way above their weight for a $110 IEM.

I’m tighter than two coats of paint, so I relish finding sonic bargains like the 400se’s and the Starfields.

Then again, there are products from major-market Western manufacturers that are overpriced simply because they have marketing, packaging and other costs that Chinese factories don’t incur. But like in everything, there are exceptions to that rule, too. I think the Sennheiser HD 560s are a damn good value for $200.

Other companies also can get away with inflated reputations due to effective marketing and branding. Take Beats, for example. Most – not all – of its headphones sound like shit. But they’re still expensive because kids and adults see famous athletes and celebs wearing Beats, and they figure the brand must be quality. It’s a triumph of style over substance.

Then you have Apple. Almost all of its products are excellent, with quality engineering, software and hardware. But there’s such a cult around Apple products that the folks in Cupertino know they can charge a higher price than competitors, and Apple devotees will gobble up every new product like college football linemen at an all-you-can-eat buffet. That’s the “Apple tax.”

Bottom line: There are plenty of measurements that can indicate a headphone’s quality, and they should be heeded. But the ultimate barometer remains your ears and brain. One person’s trash is another’s treasure.

For example, everyone here knows Raycon earbuds are absolutely wretched, by measurement and subjective listening. But if someone wants to buy them and enjoy them because Cardi B and Snoop Dogg are paid to wear them, good for them. There’s nothing wrong with that.

[A_Jedi]

Does my $3000 Diana sound better than my $300 HD600? Yes. Can I live with just the HD600? Yes. Do I want to? No.

That’s the best answer I can give you

[db_Cooper]

@Chigyu

After talking to a friend who had the opportunity to try out many of the popular “audiophile” headphones in the $500 dollar and below price bracket, he told me that the change from one headphone to another isn’t significant enough to justify paying hundreds of dollars more.

Your friend is an ignorant and opinionated git.
You’re doing your own research.
You’re not like your friend.
Enjoy the hobby.

[mochimashu]

@Chigyu

friend who had the opportunity to try out many of the popular “audiophile” headphones in the $500 dollar and below price bracket, he told me that the change from one headphone to another isn’t significant enough to justify paying hundreds of dollars more. He settled on the HD 6XX, claiming that paying extra for Sundaras, dt1990Pro, or even LCD-2’s just aren’t worth the subtle difference in audio.

He said it wasn’t worth it for him, but he clearly thinks they are better

[lrjshabaz]

Yes. But it comes down to proper usage and most importantly preference. I buy and sell wine - same thing.

Many people will enjoy a $12 bottle of wine more than a $200 btl. Provided they don’t know what it costs.

Just applying dollars doesn’t necessarily reward. If you buy expensive cans that are contrary to the sound signature you like: bad. If you buy headphones who have weaknesses in the areas that you are most demanding: bad. If you run power hungry headphones off subpar source: bad. Also: a lot of reactions get based off of initial impact - not spending proper time with devices.

Bottom Line:
Enthusiasts understand gray.
Consumers like predictable black and white.
Not everyone needs to be enthusiasts, most are not.

[fxxr]

[KeroseneSlickback]

Personally, I don’t try to break the $200 bracket for pretty much any piece of gear.

Why? Because I don’t sit around listening to music. I don’t try to listen to each and every detail that’s presented to me.

I listen to music/audio for the experience and to help me do stuff. If I’m working, headphones on and working. I don’t want shit to sound bad, but I’m not exactly focused on the finer details and harmonics and all that shit. Lately, honestly, 90% of the time I’m listening to Blon 03s with filter mod or my DIY speakers. Does the job, I can jam out, and I enjoy everything.

I’ve got money, I love audio gear, I’ve auditioned some of the best headphones… modded Blon 03 and Fostex T50RP are pretty much where I’m at.

[Nick_Mimi]

Yes, many nice things come at an added expense. What is a reality for most people though, the majority in fact, is that unless you have spent considerable time tuning your ear and knowing what to listen for that extra 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% or more improvement is wasted / lost / unrecognized. This is common with any developed skill set. It takes time to understand, learn about and appreciate fine nuances. Lastly, no matter how good your ears or HP’s are the source material and source chain WILL play a role, so be further prepared to spend more money. Happy listening, enjoy growing into this and whatever hobbies you fancy.

[RiceGuru]

After a certain price things like price to performance bell curves negatively after a certain point, this is basically a case for basically everything that happens to have a luxury category. In headphones the more expensive you go the more you have to skew perspective the more you have to spend on source gear to get the most out of your purchase. Reality is audio is also a. Very subjective thing and mental factors apply directly to your listening experience. Yes these $2000 headphones sound better than your $200 headphone but by how much depends on mood, preferences, how you look at it, what source gear you pair with it, how good your ears are, and how familiar you are with the rest of the price spectrum of headphones and having realistic expectations. A good cheap example of this is a ksc75 vs something like a hd 6XX listen to both judge how good both sound and the differences , and you may or may not be surprised by how close they are in some respects and how far away they are in others now apply that to a different price point

[Marzipan]

the problem with the expensive gear is demoing it and then being corrupted for the rest of your life knowing you’ll never be able to afford something like it.

[Tommy]

more expensive headphones have better control, superior technicalities.

You have to figure out how much you want for what you are willing to pay and it’s okay if you find out that it’s not worth it, completely understandable.

i cannot name one technically impressive headphone below 800usd but others may, maybe a sundara but haven’t heard them, i’d be interested to hear what others have to say about that as i’m sure there are some

[K4sh1ma]

In my opinion no, ever since I have discovered the Koss KSC75 and Koss KPH30is, to me with just a bit of modding like replacing the pads with Yaxi pads on either the KSC75 or KPH30i (You can also mod it with the Grado pads), making the cables removable via replacing it with MMCX or 2pin connectors and removing the foam pads inside of the KPH30i (No need to do that with the Clear version, and I have heard that the Clear version sounded better than the standard KPH30i, still love it though.) I am officially in endgame!

For I am one of those guys who gets easily impressed by sounds if they are fucking good, especially when the pricing from those headphones or IEMs you get are on the budget side of things! I have a drawback as well, I get easily impressed but I also get easily unimpressed when I heard the sounds that I am hearing from a set of headphones not good and just shit, especially when it is an expensive piece of shit. So yeah overall, to me no, not all things EXPENSIVE is equal to BETTER SOUNDS. Sounds are more complicated than just buying for PC parts for example, since you have a damn clue on what to get for the PC parts, but for sounds? it’s more complicated than that.

[Falenkor]

@Chigyu

However, going from the M50 to X2HR was a pretty lackluster change in audio.

not sure what you expected to begin with… x2hr is flabby, uncontrolled, and just meh really… its a fun listening headphone but really… its like… what like $80? You get what you pay for with that one lol and m50 is nothing to go on either to be all honest.

@Chigyu

After talking to a friend who had the opportunity to try out many of the popular “audiophile” headphones in the $500 dollar and below price bracket, he told me that the change from one headphone to another isn’t significant enough to justify paying hundreds of dollars more

Anybody who makes this claim… I will try to be as least insulting here on this because I want to be honest…

A. doesn’t know what their talking about
B. May have tried the gear but decided to just plug them into a motherboard or low grade amp and dac thinking this is okay as misinformation in this hobby is aplenty… especially with some “reviewers” over there driving hd800S off trash sources while speaking about them.
C. Cannot hear the differences in the headphones due to a multitude of reasonings. Since we all hear differently this can be attributed to things like hearing loss, ear shape, etc.
D. he didn’t really try many of them or tried multiple headphones of the SAME signature or within the same brand such as Sennheiser of whom takes a flat line and alters it every which way making multiple headphones much like AKG does with K702, K712, K6 series, K7xx, etc

@Chigyu

He settled on the HD 6XX, claiming that paying extra for Sundaras, dt1990Pro, or even LCD-2’s just aren’t worth the subtle difference in audio.

Okay, so yeah… no this is wrong. Anybody who claims there is a sublte difference between these? They have to be doing something wrong here… especially Sundara over there

@Chigyu

Is there really a ceiling in audio quality at this price point where the gains in fidelity from one headset to another are subtle and not far off from a 200 dollar headphone?

It truly varies on a person to person basis as some of us truly cannot discern or hear differences. There really isn’t technically a “ceiling” but rather a limit you put on yourself. The sound does get better the higher up you go but of course to certain degrees. However, with a higher up bracket of headphone you need higher up equipment respectively to go along with that otherwise the sound is quite poor and not fully up to what it’s supposed to sound like… you wouldn’t power a $500 headphone to a motherboard… it really doesn’t make sense less its like… portable but even then most portables at that price point can make use of a portable amp to make them sound better.

@Chigyu

Would I be missing out by settling on an HD 6XX?

Would you be missing out? depends on you personally. I would encourage of course trying the 6xx as its not by any means a bad headphone at all… its actually really good. Then again you do get those people who are more biased towards certain companies… it’s better for you if you try headphones of varying signatures before you go settling on a headphone of choice for your daily driver. Don’t go by strictly measurements, don’t go by the “it has to be a neutral flat line” mentality, and try not to fall into mental bias when it comes to people on here. Of course also watch out with reviewers… this should be a no brainer.

@RiceGuru

Very subjective thing and mental factors apply directly to your listening experience. Yes these $2000 headphones sound better than your $200 headphone but by how much depends on mood, preferences, how you look at it, what source gear you pair with it, how good your ears are, and how familiar you are with the rest of the price spectrum of headphones and having realistic expectations

^ absolutely

[A_Jedi]

Here’s what you do:

Shop from a place that allows 100% refund on returns.

Buy a decent beginner amp and DAC (you don’t need to spend more than $200 here).

Buy several different headphones with good reputations.

Listen to the various headphones over a couple of weeks. Spend time with each one before changing - a few days.

If you hear no difference, return everything (or just keep the cheapest).

If you DO hear a difference, welcome to the club.

Your friend can say whatever he wants and, we can say whatever we want. Find out for yourself.

[voja]

Here’s my take on it:
This hobby is in my opinion all about how insane are you. How enthusiastic? How far are you willing to take it?

If you are just a consumer, you will be happy with something that doesn’t hurt your wallet. “Doesn’t hurt your wallet” is subjective. If your salary is 1000 bucks, a 200-500 bucks is not a small sum of money (depending on how much it matters to you). If your salary is 10000 bucks, you are probably comfortable to spend 1000-3000 bucks on your setup.

The other aspect is how crazy are you about the hobby. How much does music matter to you? How much does gear matter to you? It could be either of those two, or it could be both. There are gear enthusiasts, there are music enthusiasts (listeners), and then there are both of those combined. If listening to music, or the gear itself, is very important to your life, you are probably ready to save up and spend more than an average person. This means that if your salary is 1000 bucks, you might save up some money and buy a 3000 bucks setup.

How much are you willing to spend to pleasure yourself? How much does it take to please yourself? You see, a lot of people here can be happy with a Sennheiser HD598 or a HD650/HD6XX, but there are people who like the luxury of high-end. Think of it as an addiction.

Speaking of luxury, it comes with an invisible tax. When something is exquisite and abstract, luxurious, it costs more. Not because of the performance, not because of the materials, but simply just due to the exotic nature of luxury. Exclusivity costs.

Whether or not you need this luxury is entirely up to you. I strongly think this hobby is individual. People spend their money on fine clothing, fine food, drugs, women, gambling, computers, cameras, cars, vintage things, there are a lot of things that people spend their money on, a lot of things that evoke pleasure, in our case it is things that produce sound.

At the end of the day, I think the #1 most important thing is that you are happy and can sleep well at night. If you spent a lot of money on something and it is not making you happy or it makes you feel guilty, it simply wasn’t worth it.

Stay happy, and enjoy yourselves!

[Falenkor]

@voja

How much are you willing to spend to pleasure yourself?