Only the question remains if he finds it comfortable. I had to change this to make them more comfortable since over time the strap bends and presses against the springsteel. And i ordered the Dekoni Velours pads yesterday.
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Quick updateā¦
Listened for quite awhile last night to both Sundara and DT 1990. While I can appreciate the highs of the 1990ās, and the element does a noticeably better job of livening up the bottom end on these, I am continuing to notice a distinct lack of detail out of string instruments (theyāre loud and noticeable for sure but not as detailed or rich as they sound through Sundara) as well as a lack of low-end resolution to male vocalists.
The Sundara on the other hand has very nice highs, decent-ish mids with excellent clarity and pretty poor bass response. The low-mid end is more detailed for sure with these, but bass is honestly lackluster and something I would look to improve.
(For the record Iām happy to say I noticed much better performance with the element although the sounds are similar enough to without that I feel I can actually use those original impressions in this)
So as of now Iād say I am looking for something similar to Sundara but with better mid-range performance, much better low-end/bass performance and similar to possibly slightlyyyy tunes down highs. I donāt actually know that the highs bother me much on these though.
One other comment Iāll make is on comfort, Sundara crush DT 1990 and itās not close. Build quality definitely favors 1990 though.
Looking forward to updating with 6XX thoughts!
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Maybe edition XX or edition x v2 depending on budget. Personally the edition xx was my favorite headphone and now the edition x v2 isā¦ so I am a bit biased.
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Just wondering for the 1990, what pads are you using with them?
While it isnāt exact upgrade, I agree with @sa11297 that the hex v2 would be pretty great imo and can be found actually around the 700 ish mark from time to time
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thatās a good question lol. btw iām the reddit guy. and personally i only got to learn that through trying different sets of headphones with time and finding out what i liked. With some time i found myself always going back to the more balanced headphones, i enjoyed speed alot when i got the sundara and then focals. And anytime i disliked a headphone or iem i noticed that it was usually a bad timbre that didnāt allow me to enjoy them much, another thing that didnāt let me enjoy my music was recessed mids. Itās all about the expirience really lol.
So if u donāt have that much experience just gotta build it up realistically. Spend solid time with these headphones, use each without switching for at least a few days. So that u can actually get familiar with them and what you like. And from there you can really think about it properly. Because there are times where you might just be smitten by one thing in particular that you like until time passes and you find something you dislike so much that you donāt want that headphone anymore lol
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@M0N these impressions are all coming from the balanced pads. I bought these from amazon warehouse (certified used) and somehow they didnāt come what the analytical pads? Insane.
@Jose_G whatās up man?! Yeah thatās exactly what Iām trying to do right now. Just sharing my interpretations here to keep everyone up to date and to help leverage the stream of consciousness. Overall Iāve spent considerable time dedicated to each headphone and expect that I have formed pretty legit impressions as of now.
My question was more of is there a ācorrectā way to listen or for the guys who have a ton of experience do they have a specific process that they go through to test/form opinions on headphones. Any songs I could specifically listen to that would help me communicate more clearly what I like/dislike about these? And so on and so forthā¦
Hope that makes sense! If anyone has input on this feel free to chime in. Otherwise Iāll continue to listen and form opinions and hope to be making some decisions by weeks end.
Ah thatās unfortunate, personally I donāt like the balanced pads, the analytical pads were a pretty large improvement for me, I donāt know if I would say I enjoyed them with the balanced pads. The analytical pads were more neutral, with less of a weird bass looseness and bump, and a more linear midrange and treble response, also more detail and more accurate stage
I mean imo the most correct way to try this stuff is to spend like 3-4 days with each piece exclusively listening to music you really like and know well thatās at least in decent quality, and then when you try the next pair, the differences should come to you naturally. I would also not pit all three up against each other right away as well
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I second this
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Appreciate the feedback! And yeah, I knew about the multiple pads and honestly never thought to check. Once I checked tonight I realized the general consensus was analytical was better and am a little disappointed. That said, Iām going to have to make these impressions work for my decision making process and still feel these will serve a purpose.
As for how to listen, yeah thatās definitely how Iāve been doing it for the most part. Havenāt been directly comparing these to each other outside of for like a song or two at night just for fun (I want to see what differences I notice, so I like to experiment.)
That said, Iām definitely going to give each headphone their due time and try do to the best I can to make honest and accurate assessments without bias!
Edit: people keep referencing a decent source and Iāve looked around online for this, I have Spotify premium and it set to use the highest quality for all music. Iām assuming this is good enough?
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Yeah, analytical pads arenāt going to make it sound like another headphone, but they might fix some of the issues you have with it (although it might add a bit more treble for some)
Thatās good enough, but lossless is preferred here
I think that is good enough. I personally use Tidal, but that can be costly and the user experience is better on Spotify imo. As long as itās not Youtube or some bad rip mp3, thatās fine.
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Itās better than YouTube (regular non-premium). I know plenty people that are happy with spotify. IF you need āhigh resā because youāre starting to notice things that arenāt coming in as clear or as layered as you want, then consider upgradingā¦ when youāre ready. I know for streaming services like Amazon HD, Qobuz, and Tidal are ready for you when youāre ready for them.
Pro-tip with streaming and audio gearā¦ when you have something you like, STOP!!! Itās about enjoying the music (and games in this case, maybe a movie). Donāt seek perfection if you find happiness. Perfection is impossible, happiness is illusive and if found should be savored and enjoyed for as long as possible.
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This is going to be the best advice offered in this thread, full stop. Not just audio or streaming gear, this is a LIFE lesson. Thanks for the reminder man!
Honestly, thatās kind of how I roll. I have a lot of hobbies. I like to jump in with both feet, immerse myself in them, and find my way to the top. For hobbies that are product based I usually only end up with one option that fits my needs the best because thatās how I maximize value.
Watches for example. Theyāre gorgeous! They fit this kind of mold for a hobby. Intricate, massively different from piece to piece, but to the average consumer a watch is a watch (they all tell the time) just like headphones are headphones to a lot of people (or Beats are Summit-fi. haha). I have one. A very nice mechanical watch that I purchased for myself for achieving a lifelong goal. But I refuse to buy another one. I donāt even look. Believe me I jumped in with both feet when I purchased it but at this point I donāt really keep up with the hobby.
Honestly thatās likely how this hobby goes for me. I know this is a dangerous (and expensive) rabbit hole so I am going to jump in with the intention to escape as soon as I can. Hence this exercise, all of these long posts, etc.
My point being, I hope other people reading this thread now and in the future pay attention to your post and my response. Do you due diligence. Test the waters and find the right setup, but donāt get lost. Unless you want to of course, some people just need that!
Anyway, rant over for the night. Thanks for the inspiring words my friend!
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With the dt1990,sundaras, and 6xx, you will really be craving some low end haha. Lots of good options out there. @sa11297 suggested edition xx or edition x v2, I can highly reccomend those as well. I really liked both of those. I will also suggest the audioquest nighthawks too.
Okay guysā¦ Here is the big update!
I want to preface this by saying that I have truly given each of these headphones their time in the sun. Iāve mained them for my exact use case (gaming, music) for the last week or so. Using each one exclusively for at least a few days each, followed by some light A/B testing. Tonight Iāve given each one a solid uninterrupted hour of pure music followed by some A/B testing to not only form opinions but primarily to confirm and entrench them. One important part, while I know the general sound signature people consider these to have, I have really tried to interpret how the feel to me on their own and not let the general consensus influence my thinking. That said, there is a chance I say a headphone sounds a way that makes no sense for the headphone Iām referencing, and if that happens, have confidence I am doing my best while still being relatively inexperienced.
In this experience @M0N was kind enough to send me some lossless audio of my favorite artists to test and that has also been in my rotation as well as the highest quality Spotify has to offer. 98% of my testing has been done using the JDS Element II DAC/Amp from @McLovin and this thing has been flawless!
That said, one important distinction I want to make here: PLEASE disregard the opinions/wants/needs and headphones of interest I mentioned earlier in this thread. While some of those opinions may still apply. know itās from experience now instead of research. I also want to take the preconceived ideas of what I want to buy off the table and would really appreciate that if you are going to make a headphone/amp/DAC recommendation to please take the following feedback ONLY into account when making that recommendation and not anything I have mentioned earlier on.
Okay, so I am going to do a somewhat informal breakdown of each headphone with my overall thoughts. I think this is the cleanest way for me to do this rather than going category by category.
So to begin:
Sennheiser 6XX
This headphone is the lightest of the bunch, feels the cheapest (and is) and feels the most familiar out of all that I have on me. Familiar in the sense that the tuning feels commercial (mid-centric). This is easily the best sounding vocal performance for me as well as offers the best sounding instruments in terms of faithful reproduction of sound. This headphone has virtually no soundstage or imaging to me and doesnāt offer much depth of clarity. Compared to the other options Iām testing I would say this has the mid-profile I like the best, but it is sorely missing low end performance.
I would be happy with these if I hadnāt experienced the other options, but all things considered if I had to pick one of the three I wouldnāt choose these. That said, their mid-range performance is strong enough that I feel this is going to be a major component for me in whatever headphone that I buy. Compared to the DT 1990 I would easily pick these headphones for instrument and vocal performance ONLY and the DT 1990 for everything else.
I see why this is a reference headphone for most people, but honestly the other two feel like a pretty large step in performance up over these. That said, I want to be clear in saying that these do offer by far my favorite mid-range performance and have taught me the importance of that performance in my next headphone.
One point I have to make here: Comparing the āwarmerā sound of these to the āhigh trebleā sound of the DT 1990, I would choose 6XX in terms of sound signature to sound signature. These are sorely missing details, sound stage, imaging and low end that I feel are vital. But there is an element of this signature that is important to me. On to the next oneā¦
DT 1990
This one is polarizing. I put it on the first night, listen to some music, and my head hurts. I hop into discord with some friends and one has a higher pitched laugh, which honestly gave me a headache. These were borderline unbearable for me at first. After wearing them for a little while, I become slightly more used to it, but I canāt help but feel that every song I listen to is somehow being warped by these and I am missing mid-range detail like a mad man.
These have by far the best bass response of the headphones I have on hand, and show me the value of having that (and more even honestly). These also have excellent detail reproduction, sound stage and imaging. Those were all very enjoyable experiences for me. Build quality is excellent, but these are easily the least comfortable pair I have.
I would definitely not keep these and feel that a signature this dramatically V shaped is definitely not something I am looking for. Yeah vocals sound great (not as good as 6XX) but at the cost of stripping the middle of the song out. Even with the loss of mid-range detail there is still excellent detail throughout the high/low end and sound stage/imaging that I am impressed by. I also had to consistently listen to these at lower volume than the other headphones to keep the treble in check and avoid a headache.
These have shown me a few things. Research doesnāt mean anything. I was going to buy these blindly before coming here and am happy I didnāt. I also learned a bright/V shaped headphone is not for me as I simply feel I am missing the guts of the music I mostly listen to (rap/metal/rock).
Sundara
These are the overall winners of the headphones I have here. These are far and away the most comfortable pair (even though theyāre heavier than 6XX) and do a lot of things right. Sound stage/imaging is similar to the DT 1990 but not quiteeee as strong. Although detail throughout the song is on par overall if not slightly better. These can still be overly bright for me on certain songs, which is something I may be able to get used to, but overall would like to avoid.
Easily the biggest issue with this headphone is the complete absence of bass response. I can hear low end portions of the track, but there is absolutely no slam which I am sorely missing. I love the width that these provide, the comfort and the detail throughout the entire song. The isolation of instruments compared to the other options is impressive. If I had to choose one of these to keep, these would be it. But I wouldnāt be satisfied. Main reason is lack of bass, with a slight impact due to occasional treble spikes.
So here is where I stand. I am starting over, from square one on the search for recommendations for a complete audio setup. This test has built the value for me in making the right investment in a pair of cans and the appropriate equipment to maximize performance. All options are on the table, however I do have a few biases.
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I really prefer open back headphones for this. I would go for something closed if the argument is strong enough, but I am going to strongly lean open otherwise.
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I am also completely fine with selling the Element 2 and replacing with a proper stack if there is going to be a noticeable and legitimate performance upgrade over what I have, but I donāt want to arbitrarily upgrade for no reason.
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I do really vibe with the ZMF products, but donāt require to end up here if another product fits me better. I would consider anything on the market and am completely open to EQ if necessary.
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Budget is flexible within reason for the right move, as these are going to be my only headphone I have. I am confident I can find something that will solve my needs and donāt want to own multiple products.
That is all guys! Looking forward to the following discussion and I am happy to elaborate/answer any questions you may have. I appreciate the help this forum has given me in this search and look forward to making the final move here after some further consideration!
Now to process these returns and gear up to pull the trigger on the right cansā¦
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Nice, glad you have figured out what you like 
So from what you have said, Iāve pretty much gathered that you like a neural and accurate midrange with good timbre thatās pretty organic, like nice bass extension that is tight and not bloated, prefer something resolving but not in a super harsh for forward way, and something with very good soundstage and imaging (but not super focused on that). Also you donāt seem to like too much aggression and also planar impact and bass response (these are hit or miss for most people tbh)
You say this now lol
So generally, tbh imo Iām feeling that the zmf auteur is going to be an excellent fit for you paired with a nice tube amp. Oversimplifying things and overgeneralizing things here, this will give you the quality midrange timbre from the senns, the bass response and impact of the 1990, and also the staging from the sundara/1990 although with less treble of course. Generally the auteur would give you what you liked from the headphones you have tried (and would be significant upgrades in those regards as well), and wouldnāt have the issues like over prominent treble and harshness, lacking lack of spatial recreation, and poor timbre and extension. Also I know you are pretty drawn to zmf anyways lol
What tube amp you would pair with these would be dependent on your final goal imo. If you get something like a hagerman tuba, that would be a very neutral and natrual combo, would be really nice. If you wanted to tilt the auteur a bit warmer, thicker, and more fun, the bottlehead crack + speedball is a great choice for something leaning more colored fun imo. Generally I would say I would lean more towards the hagerman tuba in this case for what you are after, and I would pair that with a bifrost 2 dac for a neutral slightly warmer smoother sound, would be pretty damn nice imo. Also if you went for this I might suggest also keeping the 6xx as that would go awesome on the hagerman as well. The only concern I might have with the tuba would be impact, it wouldnāt be that strong compared to something really slammy (most likely not as strong as something like a cayin ha-1a mk2 or ray samuels raptor which can be found in the range you would most likely want to be in used). Other amps I might mention that would correct that would most likely end up going over what you would be willing to spend, but really though thatās only a minor concern, the tuba has plenty of impact for my tastes imo
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Listenā¦ You never know what happens down the road, but as of now I am pretty confident I am sticking with one! Haha. Just donāt quote me on this when I come back asking for thoughts on a complimentary pairā¦ Haha.
As for the recommendation, I have to say the entire time I was making these preferences, I was honestly thinking the Auteur would be the one. That being said, I have one concern with this I would like some thoughts on. Much better bass performance than even the DT 1990 is important to me. While that definitely worked well, it wasnāt mind blowing to me and I do feel that bass response/slam/impact are going to be important to me. What do you think here?
On the topic of the amp/DAC, I am 100% open to moving to something like that, no questions asked at all. But I am curious, how large of an upgrade all things considered, would your recommendations be over the Element 2 I have? And in what way?
Finally if you remove the ZMF affinity from the equation or if I asked you for a second suggestion, do you have anything else you would recommend in itās place? I just want to make sure I am making the best decision I can.
Thanks, as always for your help man!
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Definitely first thing that came to mind, but even though he mentioned he liked the open back nature, potentially the ZMF Eikon could be a solid choice.
I think the auteur will have a more accurate and impressive bass response overall, imo depending on the amp more bass impact and control, also the bass layering and definition is much improved. Honestly I donāt think you will be disappointed in that regard
Pretty significant upgrade imo. On the dac side of things you get a more natural presentation that sounds more organic overall, while being more detailed and technically capable, with improved punch and control. Also very immersive spatial recreation. And to be honest this is somewhat similar on the amp side as well. Itās harder to really explain it compared to your current setup as you are mainly improving on intangibles, which are hard to put in words lol. But I can absolutely say itās a very worthwhile upgrade
Even removing the zmf bias I still think the auteur is a really good fit here. But besides that, I might actually say a focal clear, but it would be less organic sounding and might lack in terms of bass impact (although honestly I donāt think I would be super concerned here as well). If you paired that with a rnhp and bf2 you should get a decently organic sound that is for the most part up your alley potentially besides bass impact
I was thinking that as well, because while it is a bit less spacious sounding than the auteur, it really doesnāt sacrifice much and has a warmer bit more fun tuning to it