Get a set of Focal Clears…
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actually, can you compare the 4xx and the sundaras?
yea, I’ll take a listen to both. I’ll reply in an hour or two 
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thank you!
For what i’ve seen seems like a good option. Thank you for your insights. 
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Bear with me, never done an actual comparison before. Sorry for the fucking essay, I got carried away.
TLDR : Both are solid headsets. Sundaras obviously take the cake. If you won’t have the money for the Sundaras for over a month, get the 4xx’s. If you have the money though, Sundaras are just a general improvement in almost every way and worth a month (or two (or three 
)) wait.
— Massdrop HE-4xx’s vs Hifiman Sundara’s —
Comparing with the Archel 2.5 Pro and Enog 2 with XLR. Burned in both the Sundaras / 4xx’s if you believe that it makes a huge difference.
Reference tracks I used -
HE-4xx -
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Build Quality - Good. Metal is where it should be. Parts that are plastic are either replaceable or made of decent plastic. Pads are ridiculously comfortable, but round so might not apply to everyone’s ears. Only issue is the right side’s slider doesn’t work perfectly (doesn’t stick, just slides). Luckily it fits my head fine regardless. The earpads and the headband more than make up for that small defect.
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Sound - Have no issues picking out top level details across the whole track. Dynamics are apparent. Some minute details (such as plucking sound of strings or sound of violin bow switching directions). High end is forward. Mids aren’t recessed per say, but a shallow V exists. Listening to string quartets and horns are quite pleasant. Imaging is good, but not stellar. Sundaras are a clear win in this category. Sound is overall ever so slightly warm. Bass is solid. It’s present and pleasant, but it’s not the sharpest or tightest. Kick drums still give a satisfying quasi-physical thump though. Vocals are good, but always in your face? Instruments feel better than vocals. Still better than the headsets I’ve tried at or under it’s price range.
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Gut Reaction to the Music and other Notes (can skip if you want) - Was pleasant listening to the orchestral stuff and the string quartet stuff on the list. Really shone in the ‘rock’ tunes. Drums and rhythm are where this headset is at its best imo, which is probably why I like them so god damn much. Was definitely head bobbing to Many the Miles. That and humming along to the Dragon Age Inquisition theme (the drums, strings, and low horns just ahhh). Irish tunes (when at a faster pace) got me moving. Roll If Ya Fall (live) had me fully jamming out (yet again, the drums sound great. cymbals, snare, and kick are crystal clear no matter what else is going on. whoever mic’d them up did a great job). Lacking some real gnarly impact at times though. Forest Whitaker still grooves well though. The Dead sound particularly nice compared to the other music. Without a lot of hard hits and drops these portray the musicality very well. Same stuff with Peter Tosh (and most reggae I listened to). Just the right amount of bass there. Portrays sub bass really well. I really liked these with Rise Against, State Radio, and Rage Against the Machine. Electronic music was pretty pleasant to listen to. Also. bagpipes and drums sound sexy af with these. Not too much treble and drone isn’t “please fucking kill me” levels while remaining noticeable. Snare punches just the right amount. Sadly no one likes pipes :’( . Live music is amazing on these. I haven’t found a decently recorded live tune I didn’t get wholly into with these. I wouldn’t say these do poorly with vocals, but purely vocal tracks are just pretty ok.
I’ll stop it here, but suffice to say that these cans do justice to rhythm and tracks with a lot less going on but don’t attain the same differences in dynamics, soundstage, and detail that the sundara can claim. Though I thoroughly enjoyed these, I found myself wanting to put the Sundaras back on for a few tunes. I think that says more than these paragraphs can. If you want to find a headset for half the price that’ll still get you moving, the HE-4xx is a great bet (also like them more than the DT 990s/770s @ 250 Ohms).
Sundaras -
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Build Quality - Stellar? All metal excepting the sliders again, but those are still solid and less prone to failure than the 4xxs friction system. No really loose parts (4xx’s left ear covering slides around a little bit only if I physically move it). Wire’s connections to the cans on the Sundaras feels mucchhhh more solid. Only thing the 4xx has is the thicker/comfier earpads. Sundara wins on overall comfort and peace of mind though. Rock solid comfortable build comparatively. Still wouldn’t want to drop them, but I would be much more confident with the Sundaras. A lot of the time don’t even feel like I’m wearing them.
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Sound - Very similar profile to the 4xx’s. clearer, but still a tiny tiny bit on the warm side. V shape is there, but doesn’t feel pronounced or offputting at all. I feel like treble and bass have just enough emphasis. Mids are clear and easy to pick details out of. Soundstage and imaging are phenonmenal. Note : neither or these headphones are bass or treble monsters, and neither are ‘true’ neutral.
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Gut Reaction to the Music and other Notes (can skip if you want) - My first thought upon starting the reference track playlist again is just how crystal clear it sounds. All the instruments were present in full with all requisite detail you would expect if you were sitting in front of them with your eyes closed. I just wanted to keep sitting there and listening lol. Holy shit the impacts in the Main Title & Escape right after. Again find myself moving subconsciously. Much more detail and soundstage, as well as impact / dynamic differences. First difference I notice is that the bass is much less present when it is not in the forefront of the track. It’s just pleasantly there, not really as emphasized as on the 4xxs as far as I can tell? Still has the V shape, but my ears are believing much less so (or stuff is just much clearer). I think the Sundaras have the same punch and bass as the 4xx’s, but I notice it less cause the rest of the track just finally pops out. There’s just more to listen to 0_o. Dragon Age’s soundtrack is just on a whole other level now, the hits and accents are just more punchy and the dynamics are more noticeable. Slow Irish music is now much more pleasant. I can pick out a lot of detail and dynamics that just sounded muted or meh before. Fast stuff is even more engaging now. Orchestral, traditional, and strings just sound so much better on these cans. As do drums apparently, and live music. The only place 4xxs come close is studio recorded rock, just cause they are so damn enjoyable. Also, electronic music and bass heavy tracks are just so satisfying with the volume turned up on the sundara. Bass is clearer, tighter, deeper, and crisper. Busy tracks don’t feel so busy anymore
. Vocals pop and are much clearer. I just never feel like I’m missing part of the track (take note however, that before getting my hands on the Sundaras I had a similar opinion of the 4xx’s (so if you haven’t heard either before, the 4xx’s will be perfectly sufficient, so don’t worry about my critiques). Also, shows I have a lot more hardware to listen to lmao).
Overall Conclusion -
Sundaras >> 4xx’s. Reasons have been stated above. I really don’t think that there’s anything the Sundaras do equal or worse than 4xx’s (mayyyyybe horns are slightly worse on very few tracks for reasons unknown???). If you don’t have either and want a new headset, 4xx’s are likely a drastic improvement from what you’re already using and it’s well worth getting a pair. However, if you want to go all out for a $350 set of cans, I don’t think you can go wrong with the Sundaras.
Just a word of warning, planar cans do sound different than dynamic cans. Listening to a cheaper pair first might be a good idea.
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lolol niceeeeeeeee, ill check it out in a sec. thanks alot!!
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Yea np at all. A little longwinded, but I felt I needed to do justice to both sets of cans.
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Yea, just gonna sheepishly add in one more vote for Sundaras + a really good amp + good dac. I was gonna go play games or do work and am still just sitting here jamming and reading the forum. imho these be perfectly sufficient for your first purchase 
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As a noob to audiophilia, I would say just get a noob package and save the rest of the money for where you think you want to put the next upgrade after getting a decent grip on your tastes in headphone / amp / dac. Might not be as fancy to start out with, but will probably make for a more fulfilling (and learning filled) experience. I’m still in the middle of this, so take the above with a grain of salt.
Good luck!
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thnx for the comparison! so i actually owned the 4xx and hated them lol. but i got a good deal on the sundara so i am going to buy them, really wanted to hear a comparison just to get a hmmmmm perspective on them. thnx alot! i read the entire thing, and enjoy long reviews like that since i have nothing better to do lol
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Haha, yea. Depends on why exactly you didn’t like the 4xx’s. You have any details? There’s a characteristic planar sound to both. If that’s what you didn’t like, then it might not be a good idea to grab the Sundaras even with the benefits. Description of what you liked / hated would help me out with a rec. Also what amp/dac.
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I often hear about the “planar sound.” Can anyone describe it in contrast to dynamics? I have 4xxs but seem to prefer the more natural timbre of instruments with friend’s 58x and myportapros with yaxi pads. About to spring for the Sundaras after LOTS of research and some great help on this forum, but need to clear that issue up. Listen to mostly orchestral and good vocalists. Using an Atom for now.
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Yeah. That’s about was considering, but i have only one concern with the Sundara. The inner ear cups does it make uncomfortable? 'cause seems a little small coming from the SHPs. Don’t know if that would be a phone you could use for prolongd use. what do you think of them(ear pads)?
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Mkay, so gimme an hour or two lol since i can’t put it into words. what i can say however is that the ksc75 are way better. LOVE those
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YES, I love my ksc 75s. To be clearer obviously I have heard differences with 4xx and koss, senns. Just looking for a final ok on the Sundaras i guess. lol
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OK so here it is, the 4xx sounds messy to me. The way the koss presents detail is easier to follow and sounds good, the vocals are forward altho the 4xx vocals are not super recessed. It lacks hmmmm “soul”? which i’m not looking for in the sundara but i don’t know how to explain it. just the way the 4xx presents the detail sounds messy, shitty and lifeless. it’s something i can’t put in words tbh. I hope that the sundara are more exciting
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I know thats for pr3ss, but I concur re the 4xx. Mine also got way warmer and sound like more hall echo.
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so imo the pads on the sundara are very comfortable. One thing that is a bit awkward is the cups dont swivel left and right. At first I felt the fit was a bit strange and kinda felt like the front of the pads werent sealed. After a few minutes of listening I got used to it and it never bothered me again for whatever reason. Overall I found them pretty comfortable and have worn them for super long sessions with no issue.
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I just spent way too much money on a tube amp. I will post specifics when I have in hand in the What did You Buy thread, but for now I will say that I asked specifically about my $1700 msrp HE6SE and the owner of the tube amp company said he had them and preferred the Sundaras. He admitted the 6SE were more capable, but for $350 he would take the Sundara any day over a higher priced hifiman for the quality vs price factor.
That was part of my reasoning for suggesting multiple headphones in your budget range vs going all-in on one high end headphone. I made the same mistake myself. I owned the HD6xx for a few years and used onboard PC audio and I was indifferent to them. Once I upgraded my chain I assumed all increases in price would equal increased performance, so I got the LCD XC and wasn’t impressed. I appreciate it much more now, but it made me realize there is no magic formula to skip the learning process. Jumping from a SHP9500 to the XC would have only made me think the XC was overpriced. It may still be, but now that I’ve spent time seeing what $500 or so headphones should do, I was able to appreciate the jump from the Fostex, Elex, Sundara, etc tiers to the XCs better.
I’ll amend my earlier recommendation to suggest trying a planar, dynamic, and iem. I had suggested Sundara for planar, and Fostex for dynamic, but I’m reconsidering that you should maybe look at a Sennheiser 6xx of 58x. 6xx is better if you already have the JDS Atom. With the extra money you had planned to spend, maybe also look at a Moondrop Starfield to get as wide a range of sounds as possible. If you’re new to the game, the Harman tuning of the Starfields may appeal to you most
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Hmmmm ok. Fair enough. I just sat and switched between 4 headsets for an hour (was already doing but was given more purpose by this comment). DT770, 990s, Sundaras, 4xxs.
I get what you’re saying. 4xxs, after having listened to something with more detail sound muddy (best term I can think of for it). I think the sundaras are a large leap in detail and dynamics. At the same time, I can’t wrap my head around the 4xx’s sounding lifeless . I’ll put that one down to different tastes. What I can reccommend is grab the Sundaras from Headphones.com (or somewhere that has a good return policy). I think what I hear, and that improvement, might be due to my limited exposure (never hear a ksc 75). So if you have a better initial reference, the sundara might no be as big of an improvement.
I don’t think I can nail down the planar sound for you though. But if you dislike the 4xxs that much I could see it being due to that maybe?
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