šŸ”¶ HiFiMan Sundara

Haā€¦me too. Asgard someday maybe. :grinning:

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I would consider the Sundara an upgrade to the DT 880 250ohm more than the 560 v2. All versions of the 560 is a warmer fuller sound compared to the 880 and Sundara. Itā€™s a different style of sound compared to those two but the build quality is concerning. I am currently on my 4th pair and Iā€™m at the point of accepting all 560ā€™s have issues and the perfectly working pairs are rare. One of the two wooden ones had a dead driver in less than a day and the other had a severe channel imbalance. The two with the Sundara headband had perfect balance but lack the absurd authority in sub-bass the wooden versions had and sounded like the membrane slapped against something if the seal wasnā€™t air tight.

If you want to stay with a similar analytical type of sound and donā€™t want to gamble the Sundara would be a decent upgrade imo. Better separation, soundstage, bass, speed, extension, etcā€¦ None of that is really a night and day difference except maybe the bass. The Sundara has bass that goes deeper and is better textured. Everything else is just a slight difference here and there.

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the only thing I really found better was in the bass. I liked the mids a lot more on the 880 as well as the highs felt smoother and more detailed but 880 seems to lack body and sub bass as well as it just doesnā€™t sound very ā€œfullā€. Can always swap out to the 600 ohm dt 880 for cheaper than the sundara which just sounds incredible. Less you want that speed and planar bass then yeah sundara is a good choice. Honestly just feels like two sides of the same coin with some slight differences

Would be more inclined to say this is just an issue with hifiman not so much the headphone itself. Quality control is a very well known big issue of theirs and its rather unfortunate.

I got the Sundara today. Iā€™ve listened to them throughout the day. Hereā€™s my mini early impressions:

Packaging: Great. Inspires confidence, unlike some other brandsā€¦ :stuck_out_tongue:

Build:
They look great and feel better built than my 6XX. Weā€™ll see how lucky Iā€™m gonna be in the future, with so many people having quality complains with Hifiman. Fingers crossed.

Fit:
Theyā€™re not bad, actually. Weight is distributed nicely and pads are big and wrap my ears well.
Top band is alright. Could be a little softer, might be a good idea to add something there.

Itā€™s early, so I expect things to soften up a little as I use them more and more. That said, they are not as comfy as my 6XX. The pads make me a little itchy (similarly to the Shure pads, interestingly).

Sound:
They sound great! If youā€™re considering them, I can tell you that you wonā€™t regret the purchase.

  • in the first 5 minutes, I was like ā€œthis is kinda the same as my 6XXā€
  • after some A/B testing and listening to more songs, I began noticing the ā€œairierā€ feeling and wider sound-stage. Itā€™s an interesting difference. Itā€™s growing on me.
  • initially the bass seemed similar to the 6XX. I think that the more I play these, the stronger it gets. Haha.
    • overall, Iā€™d say that they manage to represent bass well. If the song has it, itā€™ll be there. If youā€™re a bass-head, youā€™ll want to EQ.
  • I like how the highs are there, but theyā€™re not piercing. I dig the sound signature a lot.
  • Iā€™m not sure yet, but it feels like I can hear more crap now. Like, imperfections in the recording or streaming quality. Will have to test a bit more.

If I had to sum up my experience so far, Iā€™d say this:

The Sundara feel moreā€¦ intense.
They request your attention, but donā€™t demand it (like beyers).
If the 6XX are the pair Iā€™d wear to relax, the Sundara feel more like the pair Iā€™d wear to get hyped.

That said, I do feel I need to point out that the differences are not dramatic.
If I had to keep only one, Iā€™d be happy with either of these pairs.

Power:
Deception. HIFIMAN says they are mobile headphones. Yeah right. Well, I already expected this because of all the reviews, but these need at least as much juice as the 6XX. On my Hel, I use the same volume levels! High gain, 9-11, depending on the song. Most songs sound great 9-10, but some piano pieces I felt like pushing to 11 or more.

Playing music through the Apple USB-C dongle, volume is good, but I am playing too close to max. Itā€™s the first time Iā€™ve experienced what seemed like a slightly narrower stage due to lack of power, I think. But without a way to do really quick A/B tests, I canā€™t be sure. In any case, they are usable. Just not as good or loud.

Havenā€™t tried the BTR5 yet. But based on my 6XX experience, Iā€™d say you want a balanced cable to push volume properly.

Openness (ie. outside noise):
-.- I thought the 6XX were open lol. These are like not there. Youā€™ll hear everything.
Even when music is playing, unless youā€™re planning to go deaf.
Be prepared.
Find an empty room, or enjoy the down-mix in noisy environments, or buy something else.

Cable:
I almost forgot this. The cable is an abomination. I donā€™t understand why a company would create such a great product, then add this thingā€¦ It just has a mind of its own. Maybe time will tame it. More likely, Iā€™m gonna create my own.

Other weirdness:
The 1/4" adapter was faulty. They sounded godawful with it. Channels would blend, sound-stage would collapse. Total disaster. Switched to another adapter I had, wonderful sound returned. Just FYI.

Conclusion:
So far, so good. Sound is great, comfort is alright, and the more I listen, the more I can hear the planar magnetic qualities.

Are they worth the extra $$ over the 6XX? Itā€™s really hard to tell at this point. They do sound different, and the law of diminishing returns applies. For a better opinion, ask me again in a couple of months, itā€™s too early now :slight_smile:

If I was only one of these today, Iā€™d probably get the Sundara. But Iā€™d really be happy with either of them.

Next Steps:
Excited to try these with the Loki / Magni 3+ combo I have on backorder. Iā€™ll probably replace the cable as well. My Hart Audio order arrives tomorrow, but I didnā€™t get the dual 3.5mm oneā€¦ I might make my own.

Thanks for reading!

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Nice write up! Canā€™t wait to hear later on how you feel because after a week or so these really got good. And a month later I feel the imaging and soundstage got even better. Brain burn in? Hahaā€¦and keep in mind you can throw even more power at these with the asgard3. Really great amp with these.

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:+1: Spot onā€¦ this is how I feel also between the two. I agree with @Bmn1251 give the Sundara some burn in time.

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I also agree, they do get better as they loosen up, especially bass and soundstage. Work well with my Atom at 10 to 11:30. :grinning: So is the Asgard 3 a small or big improvement for the Sundaraā€¦been considering.

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Yes, big improvement from the atom to the asgard3. Thats what I did hahah

Dang. Figured that. In what regard better? Depth, SS? etc.

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I feel it brings just about everything up. Maybe midrange is the same and the treble is smoothed. Better bass. Better ss.

Thanks, very helpful (except for my wallet!!)

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@Bmn1251 how about the erish vs asgard?

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Erish for a more wide,balanced, analytical sound. And Asgard for a more smooth fun sound.

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Nice write up. I just put mine back on today after trying out a new headphone for a week. So comfortable and I really enjoy the sound. Funny to me that you say intense. I find the Elexā€™s intense, but I find these very relaxing.
They are definitely my most power hungry headphones, but not a problem at all.

Welcome to the club!

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Thanks! Brain burn-in, I believe in it :stuck_out_tongue: Iā€™ll follow up in a month, set a reminder on your post.

Yeah, many people seem to agree that burn-in helps with these.
Iā€™m curious to see how sounds changes for me over time.
I donā€™t know where truth ends and fiction begins, but the 6XX did sound better to me over time.
But, not sure if sound changed, or I got used to it. I also wonder if the pads softened and altered sound a bit.

I expect the Magni 3+ to be more than enough, no?
Itā€™s like more than double the power compared to my Hel!
Would the Asguard 3 really make that much of a difference?

Well. ā€œIntenseā€ is relative. I was comparing them to the 6XX. Perhaps ā€œexcitingā€ is a better word.
If I were to compare them to the 770s, they are definitely not intense :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks!

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I always forget how much power the magni has lol but i havenā€™t used it. I went from an atom to an asgard3 and noticed it got better. The a3 does give it some warmth however and i donā€™t know the magni does that. I think for $100 amps, the liquid spark is more recommended for the sundara, not that the magni would be bad for them. So maybe the magni falls in between atom and a3? Sundaras still sounded great on the atom, a3 just felt like a step up. So im sure you will be happy with the magni. :slight_smile: its all preference and what your willing to spend. :+1: I set my self up with the a3,Erish, and darkvoice so i can hammer out some headphones with 3 different amp options

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Hel is 1W @32, Magni 3+ is 2.4W @32, Asgard 3 is 3.5W @32.

I suspect 2.4W will be enough :stuck_out_tongue: Maybe a Tube next? :wink:

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A tube amp with your 6xx will really make a difference, i only listen to mine on the dark voice. but no tubes for the sundara!

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I think the Magni 3+ is going to be much better for the sundara imoā€¦ the LS is a fantastic amp but the sundara will benefit greatly from the added power the Magniā€™s have

the asgard 3 is a very nice amp and highly recommended pairing for the sundara but coming from your current amps you will hear a nice improvement and in the $100 range I think you choosing the 3+ is the perfect option imo :ok_hand:

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Thatā€™s where Iā€™m at next. Deciding on which tube to get. :slight_smile:

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