If you want a hifiman with bass, look into an edition xx and edition xv2 
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Yeah i have the edition x v2 on my watch list, but i doāt have the budget for it right now
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I would think the best case would be a asgard3,pad swap(not sure which) and some eq haha
I think the Sundara likely would struggle to get to M1070 level bass, as the M1070 is fairly close to Audeze tuning. They are shooting for very different targets in stock form, with the Sundara being neutral bright, and the M1070 being warm and smooth, perhaps even ādarkā. Disclaimer that I have not heard the Sundara, but I did own the M1070, which in some ways I enjoyed more than my LCD-2 Fazor as far as laid back warm signature. They had detail, but from what Iāve heard, are not tuned like the Sundara to bring that detail forward.
I would be interested in hearing your opinions on the comparison.
I really like my Sundaraās and am curious about the 1070ās. I am guessing/hoping you will just start with stock pads.
Looking forward to your results.
I will write a comparison next week when the M1070 will be burned in and i will have more time for a/b listening. I have to work a lot this week. Since i only have the stock pads right now, i will write about them.
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Yep on the cable BS. My cable had shorts around the Y right out of the box. HiFi Man quickly sent a replacement that seems ok except for that slip on 1/4 adapter. Learned of solid connection, screw on adapters, (on cheap NewFantasias). You would think for $129ā¦another blogger dissected the stock one finding only anodized insulation inside. I bought a Meze silver copper upgrade for less. It is a bit short 1.2m and kinda bright, maybe too much on top; still evaluating. The stock cable is smoother, better overall balance, a little less detailed. The inexpensive NewFantasias are closer to stock sound. Looking forward to a Hart kit if they ever catch up with production lol. Overall a Huge improvement over 90ās Etymotic ER4 and Headroom Supreme amp. Now with Bifrost Multi and Asgard3ā¦just europhoric, air, separation, detail, out-of-head sound stage. Need to face the music on my credit card nowā¦
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The sundaras are currently $350 on Amazon. Are they pretty much just that price always now? Or is this an exceptional sale?
Thatās pretty much the standard price now. They didnāt stay at their $500 MSRP for long.
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Sounds good. Ty for the info
So, i compared the Nighthawk Carbon, the fidelio X2 (non HR, Gibson), the sundara (stock pads, not palipads) and the M1070 against each other. Note, that these are my subjective perceptions and that I am not an audiophile. I am a consumer, who prefers a slight v-shaped or bassy sound signature over neutrality. Nevertheless Iāve listened to many mid-fi headphones.
I used my ifi zen dac (unbalanced) or my geshelli archel 2.5 pro amp (connected to the ifi zen dac).
The M1070 was burned in for about 40-50 hours. I used the M1070 with the velour pads, which I like more than the protein pads. The protein pads sound some kind narrower and has less treble energy, less detail, but have more kickbass.
I use the Nighthawk carbon with the micro suede pads. So the nighthawk carbon doesnĀ“t have that extreme dark sound signature as with the stock protein pads.
Since my English is pretty poor, iĀ“ll post here some rankings which I created while a/b listening with the headphones. P stands for protein pads, ms for micro suede, v for velour
Bass slam:
3,5 NHC ms >
3 NHC p >
2,5 X2 >
2,25 Sundara >
2 M1070 p >
1,75 M1070 vs >
1 Tygr
Bass depth:
3 NHC p/ms >
2,75 M1070 p/vs >
2,5 Tygr >
2 X2 >
1 Sundara
Bass quality:
3 NHC p >
2,5 M1070 p >
2,25 NHC ms >
2,05 M1070 vs >
2 Sundara >
1,5 X2 >
1 Tygr (better bass definition than X2, but distorts faster)
Bass quantity:
3 X2 >
2,8 NHC p >
2,5 NHC ms >
2,5 M1070 p >
1,75 M1070 vs >
1,5 Tygr >
1 Sundara
Bass total:
11,5 NHC p >
11,25 NHC ms >
9,25 M1070 p >
9 X2 >
8,3 M1070 v >
6,25 Sundara >
6 Tygr
Mids - Vocal presence
4,35 Tygr
4,3 M1070 ms >
4,2 X2 >
4 Sundara >
3,7 NHC ms >
2 NHC p
Mids ā Texture quality
5 Sundara
4,1 NHC ms
4,1 M1070 v
3,8 Tygr
3,7 X2
Mids ā total
9 Sundara
7,8 NHC ms
8,4 M1070 v
8,15 Tygr
7,9 X2
Treble ā Sparkle and detail
5 Sundara >
4 NHC ms >
4 M1070 v >
3,8 X2
3,5 Tygr
Imaging ā separation
5 Sundara >
5 Tygr
4,9 M1070 v >
4,8 NHC ms >
3,3 X2
Soundstage width
5 X2
4,8 Sundara >
4,8 NHC ms >
4,5 Tygr
4,5 M1070 v
Soundstage depth/height
5 Tygr
4,85 NHC ms >
4,7 Sundara >
4,7 M1070 v >
4 X2
Impact/Punch/Speed
4,7 NHC ms >
4,5 X2 >
4,3 Sundara >
4 Tygr
3,5 M1070 v
Sound total
45,8 Sundara >
45,7 NHC ms >
43,5 M1070 v
42,45 Tygr >
42 X2
Then I a/b-listened to certain songs in my spotify list and gave points for each song and headphone. Note that personal sound signature preferences are noticeable in this. So this is very subjective. I prefer a v-shaped sound with strong bass emphasis and slight treble emphasis, but with still good vocal presence. I also prefer a faster sound over a massive soundstage.
Here is the summary for music:
B&O H6 2nd genā 86
X2 - 84,2
NHC - 83,15
Sundara - 81,8
Meze 99 classics- 79.17
Tygr - 79,16
M1070 velours 78,2
And here is my ranking for gaming (Alien isolation, Battlefield 1, Company of heroes 2, Resident Evil 2 Remake):
NHC ā 89
Tygr - 88,5
B&O H6 2nd gen - 86,5
M1070 - 86
Sundara - 85
Meze 99 classics- 81,25
X2 - 80,5
Conclusion
Sundara
I really like the sundara. The sound is fast, the soundstage is wide and deep and the imaging is really good. The outstanding audio features are the amount of detail in the mids and treble and the overall texture quality. The sundara lacks sub bass and bass quantity. So I ordered the palipads and a balanced cable (for the balanced output of the zen dac) and I hope this will fix the bass for me to a certain degree.
I do find that the driver of the sundara is superior than the driver of the M1070, because you get more speed, better soundstage, better imaging and much more detail. I would describe the sundara and the M1070 as neutral headphones with a slight emphasis in treble/upper mids for the sundara and slight emphasis in upper bass/ lower mids for the M1070. So although both headphones are neutral, they have some kind of opposite sound signature and it depends which sound signature you prefer.
The only concern (despite the lacking bass) I have with the sundaras is the build quality. I hope it will last until I can get a Hifiman Edition X V2.
M1070
So I hoped that the M1070 would dethrone my beloved Fidelio X2 as open fun headphones. But I am sending the M1070 back to amazon. The sound quality is definitely better than of the X2, but I prefer the v-shaped bassy sound of the x2 for music a lot more.
Although I really like the M1070 sound, I am missing some personality or outstanding audio characteristics here. The sundara has the open, detailed and airy sound, the nighthawk is very punchy, the tygr has crazy imaging and 3d audio positioning and the X2 has the bassy sound along with a very wide ss. The M1070 sounds just ānormalā for me. It has very good clarity, separation and texture quality. I do think that in these categories planar headphones are superior over most dynamic headphones. On the other side I am missing some speed/impact in the M1070 sound and overall the sundara is the better planar in my ears. I definitely would prefer the M1070 over the other planars i have owned - stock T50rp mk3 and the Sivga Phoenix.
Build quality and comfort are really good with the M1070. The cable quality and the pads are very good. I wish that the metal parts of the headband would be thicker. The metal looks really thin for the weight of the earcups and zeos could bend it with one finger. The velour pads really stink out of the box. I laid them on my balcony for two days. So I hope that the ink or other ingredients are ok in the velour pads. The weight of M1070 was not a problem while wearing them, but I noticed some tension in the neck region on the next day after longer sessions with M1070. I donĀ“t have any neck problems after using the other headphones.
So all in all I really like the m1070. It has good sound for the price. But I prefer the sundaras over the M1070 for planar sound and the X2 for fun sound.
Sundara vs Tygr in games
Tygr has more sub bass and bass. Sundara on the other side has better bass texture and slam. I donĀ“t like the tygr bass on my ifi zen dac, because it distorts on louder volumes and doesnĀ“t have the best texture quality. Tygr bass isnĀ“t as loose or sloppy as the bass on my X2, but it distorts faster than on the fildelios. So i definitely recommend an amp for the tygr. My geshelli amp adds more definition to the bass texture and solves the distorton problem. I do have the feeling, that the driver of the tygr hasnĀ“t the same capabilities as the sundara or nighthawk and is reaching the maximal capabilities faster. Shots in Battlefield 1 feels meatier on the tygr. Also bass guitars and male vocals have more body to them. The sundara offers due to the better texture quality and the more impactful slam the better bass experience, because the bass is faster and cleaner. My Nighthawk carbon remains my favourite bass headphone in my collection, because it offers more bass than tygr/sundara and has more slam to it than the sundara.
Through the combination of open design, wide and deep ss and laser sharp imaging the tygr creates outstanding 3d audio positioning, which is really enjoyable while gaming.
The sundara has wider ss, but sundaras ss isnĀ“t as deep as the tygr. The imaging on sundaras is even a little bit better than on the tygr. Due to the very good treble region the sundara sounds more detailed to me than the tygr. Switching back and forth between these two in Alien Isolation and Battlefield 1 gives me the feeling that the tygr is narrower than the sundara and more v-shaped. It feels like the tygr is boosted, but in the right areas. The sundara offers a more natural sound experience. It feels less boosted, has more width and detail like crazy. Also single sound elements feel like having more space between them (=better separation) and have better texture quality overall on the sundara. The sundara lacks on the other side a little bit of the immersive 3d soundstage.
So in conlusion the tygr is a little bit better for immersive gaming and the āi am in the gameā feeling. It is very good for single player games and non-competitive multiplayer.
The sundara is also a very good gaming can. It is a little bit less immersive, due to the weaker audio positioning (less ss depth), but it offers more detail than the tygrs. So it is also very good for single player games and due to more detail better for competitive multiplayer.
Overall both headphones are amazing for gaming. I prefer the sundara a little bit over the tygr, because i can use it for longer sessions. The tygr is a little bit more fatiguing over time due to its boosted frequencies. The sundara is for me also more enjoyable, because it has more slam in the bass, more detail and overall better texture quality.
I have heard quite a few headphones in the last months. My advice: DonĀ“t look just on graphs and experiences in threads on the internet. Make sure, that the headphone has the right sound signature for you. I like v-shaped sound signatures. So for music i prefer the fidelio X2 over the sundara and the nighthawk, although i know that the sundara and the nighthawk do have better sound in general over the fidelio.
I also think, that I can say this for my personal progression with headphones: I prefer dynamic headphones over planars. Planars seems to be superior in clarity, separation and texture quality. On the other side they lack some speed/slam, bass and sometimes musicality. They do have some kind of steril sound in my ears and they lack some warmth, personality and excitement for me (Fostex t50rp mk3, M1070). The Sivga Phoenix was really weird in the mids for me and very fatiguing for my ears. The sundaras are the only planar headphones, which I really enjoy so far. This is some kind surprising for myself, because they lack some bass and the typical v-shape sound which I usually prefer. On the other hand they are exceptional in detail, texture quality and separation. Other categories like soundstage, punch and vocal presence arenĀ“t exceptional, but still very good. So in sum this is a really good sounding headphone. I keep the sundara and sold the tygr instead. Also I am sending back the M1070.
In future I would like to hear the Blon B30, Harmonicdyne Zeus, Hifiman Edition X2 V2, the Focal Clear and maybe the Dt 1990 pro for open cans, but right now I am really happy with my open headphones.
I will focus now for closed back headphones. On my list are the Monoprice Retro, Denon 5200//7200, Argons,the Beyerdynamic T5p 3gen and maybe the Dt 1770 pro. I am excited to see, which of these will make it in my collection in addition to the B&O H6 2nd gen.
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Sounds like you are enjoying this āhobby.ā Thanks for the comparisons. The most important thing I have learned so far is that one tiny change in the chain can make a really big difference. (pad, etc.) My current rig is now e30 > Asgard 3 > Sundara and I am happy. I agree with you and others that the Sundara is a bit bass light, but the detail and timbre is what I enjoy. The Asgard 3 really brought them to life!! ANDā¦it IS a subjective experience, but such fun!
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Yeah, i really hope that the Pali pads and the balanced cable will increase the bass a bit
Pretty sure the Pali pads are exactly what the ānewerā Sundara has standard already.
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It is. And they donāt in my opinion. I had a set of the old pads from a friend to try em out and the bass didnāt sound different enough for me.
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I dont think so either. The balanced cable didnāt change the sound for me just gave me more headroom for volume.
Iām lazy to find the reddit posts but im sure someone confirmed the ZMF ori lambskin pads increased both the bass and the treble considerably, also their foam is tougher so more clamp. This probably should also apply to auteur and eikon pads, and cowhide material but thereās not enough info on the net.
I tried the sundara with brainwavz xl pleather pads which did increase the mid-bass punch but it threw off everything else, I really disliked what it did to the mids, the highs were bouncing all over the place. Personally, for more bass I use EQ and/or other headphones.
EDIT: I got the ZMF universe (hybrid, perforated) pads today on the sundara, I didnāt test them back and forth but I did my best to analyze the changes after the swap. Super nice suede and more space for the ears, similar clamp.
The frequency response feels pretty much the same, but the presentation feels different, I perceive a little bit larger soundstage but not larger sounds, for instance the vocals are just a little bit further and the instruments have a little bit more room. I wouldnāt say it sounds better, just different. Yours May Vary.
Wow, an exhaustive comparison! There are things I agree with you, but for me, I seem to prefer the M1070 vs the Sundara ( I know Iāll get a lot of hate for my opinion, as it seems the Sundara is everybodyās darling), but for me the Sundara feels the disabled, malnutritioned stepbrother of the Anandaā¦ The M1070 is heavy, the headband is a joke, but I like the sound of it. And maybe just me, but I sense a larger soundstage than the Sundara (smaller than X2HR). You say you miss the warmth, excitement and personality from the T50RP and M1070. Planars are different to dinamics, but thatās what I love about them. I have the T20RP and I think youād find what you miss from the T50RPs. When I got the T50RPs I thought, heck itās no need for the T20RP, just add some bass to the T50RPs, and youāre done. Nnnnnnoooooo, itās something else. Maybe you lose some clarity and detail (5%) but you get that velvet like warm bass.
Regarding the X2HR and a possible DT1990. I love my X2HR, but if you like it, another step up is the DT1990. Itās brighter, and at the same time goes deeper as well, itās like the X2HR on steroids.
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Cool thank you for the feedback.
Yeah, maybe iāll try the t20rp one day. I had them on my watch list, but after my experience with the t50 not with the highest priority.
Ok, that sounds really cool. You say that the bass is deeper on the 1990 pro, but what about bass quantity? It would be interesting to have tighter and deeper bass and equal quantity.
Do you have any experience with the Dt 1770 pro?
DT1990: for me it feels similar quantity, but goes deeper, and gives it slightly more authority to it. The bass quality is better. There is a higher clamping force on it, then the X2HR. All these are related to the balanced earpads. Iāve still to try the analytical pads.The build quality is even higher as well.
I have no experience with the DT1770, I only have the DT770 (250OHM)
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Iām a relative noob when it comes to headphone. I wouldnāt say I am an audiophile but rather just like listening to music. I had a set of he400ās back some years ago and loved them. They were my first introduction into planar headphones. I have given them away and now I want another set to replace them. I keep seeing people rave about the Sundara but I am also looking at the M1070ās and the HE4xx. Are the Sundaraās worth the extra cost over the others? Are the issues with the monoprice headphone really that big of deal to live with? I have a set of OPPO PM-3ās that I am using now but donāt like them as much as I did my old he400ās.