IEM discussion thread (Part 2)

God of iem pics, rate my pic please. @domq422

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300/300 baby

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Bro, #1, you saying that has me geekinā€™. That means so much, thank you :pray:

#2 I fuck wit it, I always dig the super close up shots you do - especially peering into the driver like that :face_with_monocle::ok_hand:

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Haha thanks, this impressed me more than usual since I just tried to zoomed in to the max (144mm) instead of 48mm (2x?) and got this result without any macro lens adapter.

This coming from the Xperia 5V, which has the same camera config as the Xperia 1V (except telephoto) which most people shit on in terms of ranking with other phones.

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Thoughts on the timbre and coherency so far?

Why is there a grill inside? Damping or Condensation Control ?

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Shits on something like the 61T and should be better than the Quartet. will see how it compares to the em6l sooner or later though. The piezo is definitely noticeable in the treble but it is one of the best implementation of it I have heard (might compare it with my favorite piezo iem, intime sora light 2019), simgot tuned this with less treble gain than their other iems which might be due to them listening to feedback but I believe they did this because if they did not lower the gain and went with something like their EM6L tuning it would have been way too bright.

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Judging by the density its for damping foremost but it will of course also work against condensation.

Supermix 4 DD
image
if EW300 is using a similar DD, that filter should be on the center/dome part.

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Got it. I wish every IEM on the planet would use some kind of condensation filter.

It is true that not all DDs have a filter on the actual DD front/protector. But it is probably because it would change the tuning too much. The least they can though, is to have a damn filter on the actual nozzle, thats the biggest culprit as way too many iems (even kilobuck gear) dont have a damn thing on it and its literally just open and welcoming all the dust/earwax/moisture into the iem.

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Agree brother. When I had these on I almost forgot they were a tribrid lol. If they had the same amount energy as the LM or EM6L the piezos wouldā€™ve been way more noticeable

61t slander doesnā€™t stop eh :joy:

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This has been my biggest worry with my P8ā€™s atm, I actually find myself inspecting the nozzle after every listen with a LED light just to make sure itā€™s clean and clear. Maybe a bit OCD about it butā€¦you knowā€¦canā€™t have shit blocking those ports! :notes:

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Single DD with Metal Shells are the worst for this issue from where I live

anyone else a primarily amazon shopper?

I was interested in picking up a set of 7hz legato but theyā€™re unavailable, Iā€™m hoping it doesnā€™t mean theyā€™re going bye bye soon because Iā€™d have to buy em on aliexpress

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Dear Diary, itā€™s been two weeks since Duality andā€¦no? - ok, Iā€™ll cut the jokes. Knowing I heard bass extension at CJ Iā€™d not before, in a case of cope and intrigue Iā€™ve been trying to push the low frequency extension on a few sets and wanted to share a few observationsā€¦so getting into the weeds a bit here to find the last 1% - bear with me, this got stupidly long but the TLDR is all that matters.

Some Preamble

Starts with a dissatisfaction. Mid-bass + electronic music + iems. Feel Iā€™m coming up against a physical limit. On a full size dynamic basshead HP I once had (TMA-1), I remember a punch and energy transfer from the pads to the side of my head that made for an intense rattle. Iā€™ve never experienced that in IEMS so far no matter the EQā€™d level. Accepted it, moving on. Sub-bass on the other hand Iā€™ve noticed has this odd effect of feeling reverberation behind the jaw and back of the head and neck. Lately, this has pushed me to focussing on the quality and extension of sub-bass and preferring tunings that sacrifice mid-bass to gain some of the fancy party tricks of harman but #nevergofullharman. I know Cinema can easily go sub-20hz. How much of that translates to the OSTā€™s and blu-rayā€™s Iā€™m not sure, but Iā€™m on the hunt for the rumble I experienced in the best cinemas. The last 1%.

A Couple Tests

Not trying to act all scientific here, just describing things I tried for your information. Three sets. Mele, EW200, EA500LM w/ Dekoni Foam tips + CP100 spinfits.

  1. Sine Wave
    Running a sine wave with an online tone generator (as apparently we can hear under 20hz with sine in ideal conditions). I donā€™t have a microphone to standardise volume - just guessed a comfortable listening volume and kept output readings on the Q5K the same (maybe 85db Iā€™d guess). Mele gets down to 17hz with palpable pressure and then sharply falls off. EW200 and LM gets down to 14/15hz with a palpable pressure before sharply falling off but the LM had a much stronger sense of that pressure. At much louder volumes I could push LM to 9hz before sharply falling off.

LM >> EW200 > Mele.

  1. Taking it to tracks
    Turns out Q5K can allow EQ down to 10hz and this allowed me to test and control the curve better at 20hz and below. This is not relevant to most music but as I mentioned Iā€™m in search of the last 1% of rumble and I know what Iā€™m looking for. To get there I was at a Gain +15 at 10Hz with Q= 0.5 !! Just beyond this, I could hear something crackling. Listening to the following tracks I A/B this with the same curve but with a sharp roll off under 20hz - to see if this actually makes a difference at all. I really tried to keep these curves the same to 20hz so hopefully Iā€™ve controlled the test as best as I can.

Tracks:

  • First few seconds of Sator - Tenet OST
  • War Anthem - Three Worlds, Max Richter
  • 2049, Wallace - Blade Runner 2049 OST
  • First few seconds of Namor - Wakanda Forever OST
  • First few seconds of C.L.U - Tron OST
  • Detach (1:10 onwards) - Interstellar OST
  • Curtain Shaker - Bassotronics
  • The first twenty seconds of Edge of tomorrow which apparently is a sub-bass torture test in home theatre (30hz to 10hz)

In line with the sine wave findings - there is a very definite difference in rumble between the two curves and a very definite difference in quality between sets. See the TLDR section.

In curtain shaker, the bass supposedly stays around 10-13hz. I could hear no bass on any set at normal volume. but listening to a redone version of this track at 15-18hz, it was very intense bass.

The conclusion from these two tests is these sets can just about do infrasonic at a normal listening volume but itā€™s enough to make a difference and take notice of its quality (meaning control). You could say subtle but not really at all. If Iā€™d do this again, Iā€™d get a microphone to standardise volume/graph below 20hzā€¦and use frequency analysing software to analyse the tracks more closely (until I see otherwise I can only assume they have some infrasonic information). Also work on tip seal - but overall this is good enough for me. I got the result I was looking for, whatever the explanation is. With enough stage width, controlled deep bass extension sounds even more impressive in a soundscape and more quality also brings a sense of depth. I hate that sentence reading it but itā€™s the best I got at the time of night I write this. Related but a side point to this: some of the new stuff mixed in dolby atmos/spatial audio sounds so good! I never know what people mean when they talk about imaging but in these mixes itā€™s crystal clear!

Ok so, no groundbreaking info here (anyone EQing at a low Q factor at 20hz will have got some of the benefit) but it was useful for me to try and test this a little more closely, so hopefully at least some may find this interesting.

TLDR;
Deep rumble unlocked. LM >> EW200 > Mele. All can rumble but only one sounded like Godā€™s footsteps. EW200 produced a clarity that Mele struggled to butā€¦how do I put this, EW200/Mele sounded like Godzilla turned up wearing Crocs. I can hear and see the terror but Iā€™m not sure how seriously Iā€™m supposed to take this. EA500LM Eqā€™dā€¦funny time is over, ok. Thanos is clicking his fingers. The Zombies are at the door. Time to pack up and go home cos everything just ended. The million dollar question is was this Duality. Honestly, I donā€™t remember at this point but the note weight and control are in the same neighbourhood for sure. That is to say, IMHO the LM driver is clearly capable when pushed and not just an incremental improvement in the sub-$100 DD space. The stock tuning of course does leave much to be desired and there are inherent limits to asking a single DD to do everything well (it only took me a decade to accept this) but it still led me to (very) reluctantly returning the Supermix 4, whose dynamic driver I found to lack punch. Not bad! but next to LM, the low end technicalities easily x5 won me over. As a consumer it set a new expectation for me at this price.

Finally, as I look oā€™er yonder to the hallowed lands of S/A+ tier, I wonder what multi-type driver sets are taking their dynamic bass tech as seriously as their treble. I only ever hear about Z1R (Sony specify down to 3Hz). I did hear EM10 and other high ranked sets at CJ but I canā€™t remember them now. A quick health warning as well. While I guessed my normal listening volume, I repeated this over and over the week. Itā€™s a lot of bass. A mild ringing is still present in quiet rooms so Iā€™ll be taking a break. All criticisms and buying advice very much welcomed and appreciated. That was a lot but thanks for reading, ta-ra.

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I would put a filter on it myself I I were you.

Something like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004029845271.html
will have minimal damping.

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The bigger (hyped) you are, the harder you fall. :joy:

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Thx for the rec, I saved this to the wish list for now. :+1:

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If you are gonna order it though, maybe you can also pick up the other mod materials while you are at it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004052530517.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004052500811.html

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A little Fire & Ice this morning:


Although Iā€™m gonna do some A/B this week now that I have them both on hand, the tl;dr is that theyā€™re both fantastic and if you have to choose, itā€™s gonna come down to your own ears and treble sensitivity. There are no losers here.
Edit: One thing that IS quite different are the nozzles; Europa is ~50% more nozzle with a lip, where Crimson is straight-barreled and stubby. I have no discomfort or fit issues with either one, but if you had trouble with Crimson, Europa may be the cure to what ails you.

They also both can change a bit with tip rolling; there wonā€™t be a night-and-day difference, but you can tweak considerably.
Edit2: Another immediate observation is that perceived volume is immediately noticeable as higher on Crimson, despite them having the same sensitivity and impedance. Not just on treble-heavy stuff, but in general. Itā€™s interesting.

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