Gotcha, that sounds like it’s the case then
One example is Post Malone Wow. That bass line is crunchy. More so in some areas than others. I kinda feel like I’m going crazy
Listened on my iPhone and yup, it’s just part of the mix.
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What are you using as your recording stream? Could it be something like a compression artifact, or is just a native part of that recording? And which headphones are you using? Have you tried different cans?
Just tried out a “stupid amounts of bass” test track of my own and got some crunchiness out of my 887:
The Advent, Industrialyzer - “Up Close”
I’m not ready to rule out a cabling problem yet since I’ve got both this and an Atom hooked up to my RME on splitters. Earlier I had some very bad crunchiness out of the Atom, and fixed it by powering off the atom and disconnecting / reconnecting the RCA connections.
This is in both Spotify and tidal. I listened to that track and I can hear the small amount of crunch in some places on my 789, but it also shows up through my CTH. I’m pretty sure it’s just in the mix but now that we’ve heard it it can’t be unheard
Speaking of things you’ll never un-hear:
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It took my Schiit Modius coming in to finally appreciate the THX 887 properly after trying better gear. The answer is disappointing as it pairs best with sigma delta DACs that are slightly warm… which seems to be in line with a theory I have on the THX and maybe why it measures well. I have a feeling the THX amps sound harsh because they don’t handle transients very well, which you may get from ladder DACs and ultra high resolving DACs.
The harshness to me might be due to small transients of digital music that sigma delta dacs smooth out in the lower tiers. With that said… I can see how my THX 887 may not scale up to the Benchmark THX amp. There is still a slight colorization of my THX 887 which means either you’re a fan or you’re not + it makes your signal chain a little more picky.
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I totally agree with this finding. My 789 sounds better than ever. I fed it from a modi, and an RME ADI2, and the modius sounds leagues better specifically with this amp. My liquid platinum and rnhp however did not get along as well with the modius.
Interesting to hear these things as I cycle through gear to find something that suits my needs best.
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So… something I remember from my engineering class that might make sense. If there is any additional capacitors for dampening transients in the signal path, some of the amplifiers may have a ringing with fast changes usually refereed to as transients. Sigma delta DACs specifically seem to provide some integration between steps for their output so the overall output is smother between each sample (which isn’t bad, it’s just an approach). Because of this transient that means the sample played back and the sample in the sound might be slightly different, less transients to worry about… but not accurate of the sound.
Ladder DACs however have discrete noticeable steps and do not ring in between. Bit representation out is solid meaning the DAC’s analog portion SHOULD NOT ring on the output. Now, how that translates through different amps is entirely a different story. Eliminating transients through a process of integration should result in some spectacular measurement numbers (especially with constant waves), I’m thinking the THX amps had a design choice made to further provide some integration which helps them measure better. But… the design choice to optimize on common DACs at that price means that a THX amp makes a decisions for the owner for them… they must have a very smooth DAC.
So what has the Modius taught me (and Grant with the RME), if you want to enjoy multibit DACs you maybe should stay away from THX. Looking at Zeo’s and army of THX disciples that may share a similar opinion while running similarly recommended DACs, root cause of the right may be solely around DAC preference and how the sampling is done. Major takeaway is a the same thing I’ve been saying and will continue to say, signal chains matter.
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Excellent info. Thank you!
Also interesting to notice: All THX combo “stacks” I see are THX amps and AKM dacs. Nothing else even.
I guess we will never see a THX/ESS combo.
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Unless you like treble with your treble and a side of harsh eteched treble. 
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Benchmark produces objectively best THX Headphone amp, and they use an ESS Sabre chip in their well regarded dacs.
Though I haven’t personally heard a Benchmark stack, I tend to agree with @Hazi59 that this might be too bright for my tastes.
I think I’ll share this here.
It’s easy to say something is the end-all, be-all, “achromatic”, “colorless”… when everyone except a few people in the world knows what “accurate” is…
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I wish they would have spent more time discussing accuracy of vocals. I think in general if you’re a human who can hear you are more or less qualified to judge “accuracy” of a recorded human voice. Sure, it’s not possible to hear all 11ish billion human voices there have ever been, but pretty much all of us have interacted with enough other humans in face-to-face settings to know when a human voice doesn’t sound ‘real’ or ‘accurate’. My two biggest issues with sound gear are shoutiness and sibilance. Why? Because that’s not what a human voice sounds like unless someone is actually shouting or is Mike Tyson. Other than that I really enjoyed the video, though. I also certainly could relate to their analogy of calibrating TVs. So many of my friends have the color and brightness on their TVs all jacked up too.
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It makes so much sense for something like the panda or a wireless headphone. It can deliver a fair amount of power without consuming that much, it’s very efficient and can still most likely deliver good performance. This thread for the most part has been aimed at the desktop amps where you have way more to work with
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Oh it’s not an issue or anything, it still very much pertains to this thread, I actually would be curious to see more thx implementations in wireless headphones or low power devices to see what could be accomplished
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Many complains about harsh treble on thx. Could you show me an example where I can hear that harsh treble? Song + timestamp please.
Fall - M83 and Daft Punk. The intro is treble land where thx does not shine
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Any Electric Light Orchestra song. Choose one. And I could go on and on…
I would love to see a THX-based spinoff of the FIIO UTWS1, if such a thing is possible. I’m curious how bulky the amp circuitry is for the Panda and whether that could be shrunk to fit into a form factor for a wireless IEM device like this.
The weak points of the FIIO are an audible noise floor and marginally adequate power. Seems like a good fit for what THX amplification does well.
Otherwise, the convenience and value prospects are off the hook. Bluetooth is a bottleneck, but that just means any phone or other device is fine as a source (expensive DAP not necessary). And the ability to swap out IEMs means you can customize the sound signature and technical abilities to get the best possible playback experience given the rest of the chain, which seems like something THX amp tech could do well.