With ilouds I think it would work pretty well, you would just want something to control volume, some passive solution like a schiit sys would work great there, and since the bf2 can output both at rca and xlr with no quality loss, it should work out just fine
Yes, I am thinking on a passive volume control like this Which comes with an ALPS27 and seems pretty solid
If you liked the mojo it’s a step up with a bit more no nonsense signature. When you say not the best option for a desktop setup, do you mean sound wise or usability wise?
Yes, I liked the mojo sound, really smooth and IMHO somewhat unique sound, I can definitely notice a difference vs other DAC’s I have tried. What I do not like about it is using the mojo as a desktop dac, not the best for cable management and also have to deal with it being battery operated, so I prefer a more traditional setup.
However some reviews describe the qutest as analytical and lean, which seems very opposite to mojo to me.
From what you state as your goals so to speak, it seems to me that the BF2 is going to be your best choice out of all the DAC’s mentioned in this thread. It really ticks all the boxes, especially at its price point.
The BF2 plays nice with all of the different loudspeakers I’ve used in my system in this room without issue. When I bought my SMSL M400 DAC, I was going to put it in my main system to possibly upgrade from the BF2, but I decided against it because the BF2 just sounds right with all loudspeakers and all music, and movies.
I decided to keep the M400 in my headphone rig only.
Just as a side note, the BF2 replaced a brand new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC. Using the BF2 in one of the balanced inputs on the Stellar was a major upgrade in sound over the built-in DAC of the Stellar, and that PS Audio piece is $1700. After 6 months of ownership, I sold the Stellar and purchased the Freya+ preamp to make the kit complete.
Hi @Chops, thank you for your help and yes definitely I am leaning towards the BF2 the downside is it is currently backordered for about 2-4 weeks.
Wow, That tells a lot, as PS Audio gear is considered to be high level
By other hand, while at schiit’s site I noticed the Gungnir and it intrigued me, as I commented I really like the Crane Song Quantum DS (AKM4490 i think), so always looking for a good DS implementation, but being honest I am not familiar with this Gungnir unison DS (non-multibit), is it any good? Can it be similar to Crane Song ? and how would it compare vs the BF2 ?
You’re welcome. Personally, IMHO, the BF2 is worth the 2-4 week wait, but that’s just me.
The basic Gungnir is a great unit and it was the one I was considering at first. Before purchasing, I asked the guys at Schiit what they thought. Below are exact quotes from that email back in Oct 2019…
Me: I currently have PS Audio Stellar gear, the Gain Cell DAC/preamp and a pair of M700 amps powering a pair of NHT 2.9’s that I’ve had for over 10 years now. Though it sounds good, it’s not getting me those fun-filled gooshy feelings, lacks any kind of body and warmth, nor do I get the dynamic swings that I crave that I know these speakers are capable of, so I’m wanting a change. The system just isn’t doing it for me. Hell, in fact, it puts me to sleep half of the time! This holds true with the Klipsch Heresy III’s that I also have, and those can definitely do dynamics.
My main goals for the new system is to have those dynamics, including detail and extension, as well as a nice full bodied midrange and refined, smooth top end.
Now the question is the DAC. I’m struggling to decide on whether I should go with the Bifrost 2 or the base Gungnir. I know I can also get the Gungnir mb or at least get the mb board later down the road, but I was just hoping you guys would be able to shed a little bit of light on the subject.
Grover @ Schiit Audio: All sounds great! I would probably recommend the Bifrost 2 - I feel it’s the most compelling DAC in our lineup other than Yggy at the moment, and the best bang for the buck, especially for the sound signature you’re going after.
@M0N having skipped the BF2 natural progression how would you describe, differences/similarities between the BF2 and the Yggy? Signature, capabilities, strengths?
It seems to me as Schiit not really having a “house sound” neither in the amp or DAC offerings. They seem to just shoot for a good product at a certain price, then really upgrade that product in the version 2.
That’s the recurring theme with the Freya, the Bitfrost and some of their headphone amps.
Thanks @Chops, that’s exactly my case, and I appreciate the Schiit’s honest reply not trying to force you to buy their more expensive option, so kudos to Schiit!
@M0N About the BF2 I am curious how it compares vs the Crane Song Solaris DAC, as this is the most higher level DAC I “have” to compare (need to borrow from my brother’s studio).
Generally the bf2 and yggy share a similar signature, with the yggy having a straight step up in technical performance, so somewhat similar but one is on a much higher level. The main differences might be that the yggy is a bit more forward and the bf2 a bit more relaxed, and that the yggy se out aren’t as good as the balanced out (where I think the bf2 single ended and bal out are reasonably similar enough)
So generally the crane song is just a step above, it has much more detail overall, and feels more light on it’s feet and fast. The bf2 does have a bit more tonal density and thickness (but the crane song isn’t lacking there and that’s more preference), and timbre might be slightly more organic on the bf2 though. Stage wise, the bf2 might be a bit wider but is less accurate and realistic when it comes to imaging and placement vs the crane song imo (crane song has more depth). Dynamically the crane song is a step up as well especially in microdynamics. Both are actually somewhat slightly fun leaning with being decently organic, but the crane song is a more energetic and clean signature overall focusing on technical performance and it isn’t that forgiving, where the bf2 is more neutral warmer smoother relaxed leaning (with still great technical performance for the price)
Thanks @M0N for that great and deep comparison. I have a better picture of BF2 by now, definitely leaning towards it.
About the Crane song, yes, one of its features I most enjoyed is the stage it presents, it’s just so fun to listen to! And while I like the Crane Song I think it could be a little overkill for my current setup.
By other hand, if no mind how would the BF2 could stack vs the chord qutest? is the qutest analytical or does it have a sound signature similar to the mojo?
And keep in mind during all of this talk, we’re comparing a $2000 professional DAC to a $700 consumer grade DAC, and whichever one sounds better to whoever is all subjective.
That says a lot about Schiit’s capabilities at such an affordable price point. Precisely why I’m keeping my BF2 in my stereo setup and just using the M400 in my headphone rig.
Yeah really nice for sure, I have a crane song hedd quantum that I use from time to time since it’s presentation is both accurate yet really fun lol
Yes, but it does set you up for a nicer amp in the future lol, and the neve still shows a fair amount of what it can offer lol. For awhile, I tended to use a lavry quintessence with the rnhp (and another higher tier headphone amp) in my mastering rotation and it did show a surprising amount of what that dac could do (but I would never recommend a setup like that lol)
Hmmm so the qutest is more neutral and brighter than the mojo so not as fun, but it’s also not straight up analytical like something like the tt2 for example. Generally if you liked the more fun lean on the mojo, that would be less present than the qutest, but both the mojo and qutest have the chord house sound overall. So comparing to the bf2, the qutest has more resolution, the bifrost 2 has better macrodynamics but the qutest has superior microdynamics, both are fairly smooth overall, the qutest has a smaller and less large presentation but more depth, timbre wise the bf2 does pull ahead, speed wise the qutest feels a bit more snappy. The bf2 does hit harder punch and impact wise though and is a bit more dense feeling
Sure
Sure
Very good for sure, but there’s also alot more to be had above later on too
Oh I know. I’m not saying the BF2 is the end-all, be-all DAC. I know there’s better out there, but you probably have to get to at least double the cost of the BF2 to make it worth the upgrade.
Maybe one of these days I’ll pull my BF2 out of the main system and throw it in my headphone rig just to see how it compares to the M400.
To be more clear, the crane song is pretty much an upgrade in most aspects and there really aren’t many situations where I’d rather have a bf2 over a solaris, but the bf2 isn’t embarrassed either and would most likely offer better bang for buck (but it all depends on what headphones and source chain one has, if you are only rocking 600s + neve then a crane song isn’t a good investment, but if you are using something like a clear + vio v281/280, the crane song might present a stronger value over the bf2)
A little update, in the end I went with an Ares II over the BF2 mostly because of the more relaxed sound of the ares and the extra features Ares offers over BF2, since I like to somewhat tweak the sound with external software like Roon, HQ Player, etc, and since Ares II offers NOS, was a big factor in my final decision.
While I still have not received my new Ares II, I noticed a post on Head-Fi, regarding Ares II NOS not being a really NOS dac, so should I be worried about this affecting my plan to use software based upsampling ?
Any experience with Ares II NOS with Roon and or HQ Player ?
Looks nos enough to me, from other measurements I’ve seen, it has the typical nos roll off and the impulse response is free from any reconstruction filter ringing, which is really the main reason nos is desirable imo (technically that’s more not having a filter but whatever), I wouldn’t worry too much about it imo (the holo dacs also operate in this way too of not exactly nos but close enough). When I had mine I personally just left it in nos mode as imo it had more to offer there (although with the neve perhaps some organicness and technical performance is worth trading for a more cleanly and forward signature in os mode)
For upsampling possibly, although since you already have one on the way, just use your ears to judge if upsampling is going to be the way to go or not, don’t do that myself so I can’t give you any info there
Edit: After looking through the whole not true nos thing, really pretty sure that’s nos and I wouldn’t see a practical reason to call it not nos
will be curious on your thoughts