would the 600 ohm version be better for me with regards to the trebble? Also i’ll see if i can find the nighthawk. what brand makes them?
The higher impedance does seem to tame the treble a bit on the Beyers. Audioquest Nighthawk Carbons are specifically the ones I reference (and am listening to as I type).
i’ll mention the nighthawks then to my supplier to see if they can get it, i remember zeos talking about the nighthawks a bit before. If they can’t get it then what i may end up doing is check if i can test the 990 600 ohms out to see what the trebble is like. I really don’t want to have to eq again
some of the reviews say that they come close to having harsh trebble, do you know whther that would be more than or less than an m50x?
I don’t have an M50x so I can’t comment that specifically. I can say that the treble on the pm-50s is slightly less ‘harsh’ than the sundaras and the 990s, but is more noticeable than the sundaras. I would still describe it as slightly treble forward. There’s supposed to be a peak around 4khz iirc (don’t quote me on that lol), but doesn’t bother me at all and I don’t really notice it (and the rest of the frequency range feels extraordinarily well balanced).
Any of the harsh elements of the treble are minimal with both sets of cans on the setup I’m running.
Here we go, found a quote from here…
Cymbal clash and drumstick hit come across as clear and concise in the treble range. Much appreciated again and one in which I can enjoy the sound. I did find myself turning the volume down though on the Los Lobos album a bit over other headphones. This is not a knock on the headphone, just a paucity of my ear-connection to the headphone. At lower volumes, I can listen for hours without fatigue. Many planar’s have trouble with the higher end, and the PM-50 isn’t free of that, no. They just control the upper end pretty darn well. Treble is my well-known Achilles, and this isn’t off from that. Up to about 4kHz they are a bit too biting for me, but thankfully roll off from there. I do have to turn the volume down on some albums or songs as a result. A shame really for some of those are amongst my favorites. Consider that to be a shortcoming of my ears, not the PM-50 by any means.
I would suggest you eq that if you’re super treble sensitive. Or head towards amps that minimize that problem. My Geshelli equipment does a great job. Liquid Platinum is a bit harsher in the treble right now, but much sweeter everywhere else. <---- sundara needs no eq imo, is a nice happy flat line mostly
Here’s a quick comparison. I plugged in my 990s and PM-50s in for Highway to Hell (on the Highway to Hell album) from ACDC and cranked the volume a bit. My ears forced me to turn it down with the 990s. The upper edge of the vocals was what I’d describe as biting. The PM-50s on the other hand handled them much better. There’s still a noticeable spike if you’re looking for it, but it doesn’t pull you out of the music immediately like the 990s do. <------ also did this with sundaras. Same deal, except since the sundaras are more laid back it was even easier, but slightly less engaging than the 50s.
Hope that helps!
250 Ohms, so they haven’t even attained the true Beyer murder-treble yet lol.
Sundaras are mid way between the two, but the airiness seems to help you not deal with some of the treble shenanigans? Of all my cans, the PM-50s handle the treble the best imo.
Also, that’s the only real hump anywhere. So, if you can deal with that, there aren’t many more obvious flaws. <— mostly applies to both headphones. Sundaras have a nice flat response
Ahhh, I’m doing multiple things and confused headphones. PM-50s are a better version of Sundaras. Sundaras are all of the things above except slightly less awesome, which means they’re still awesome 
. The Sundaras are beautiful for classical and orchestral, and definitely take the cake there.
I definitely would have thought trebble could be helped by the airiness. haha i just ended up guessing that the pm-50s were similar to the sundaras and you were using them as an example of what sound to expect. In a way, glad to have a list to mention to the supplier but also spoilt for choice. Availability will narrow it all down though
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Yea, sorry, I need to stop reading and writing for today lol. Am getting confused cause too many conversations.
I would highly recommend both cans. I would steer clear of Beyers if you’re treble sensitive. That has been my impression with the ones I own.
haha no worries man, yeah right now i’ve put hd 650’s, nighthawk’s, sundaras, r70x and the 880/990’s just for final selection decision
but between the nighthawks, 650’s, sundara or r70x, not sure what to choose. would be awesome to test all these but not so easy these days and just South Africa isn’t abundant in audio stores
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You wanna be carefull with the Nighthawks. They’re more of a niche headphone. very dark sounding.
That’s a nice list, and if the 880/990 600 ohm is still a consideration, they should be enough lower price that you could also get something like the Liquid Spark or Magni 3+ (around $100) to drive them. These amps have a warmer signature that in combination with the higher impedance should bring the highs down within sensitivity limits for most.
That’s a good consideration, I’d definitely do the combo situation with the amp if I’m going to get the beyerdynamics to make sure I get as close to that sound that I want. The others on the list are also good but would forgo a new amp. With the beyerdynamics it also allows me to upgrade over time with the amps already present, while the other headphones I’d be sticking with them and getting amps over time.
What would dark mean? More towards the bassy side and less treble?
This is all according to my ears, so I dunno how much help would be, I truly believe only way to know is to hear for yourself. Putting sound into words is so difficult and meaning changes from user to user and so much exaggeration and bullshit in audio reviews. Probably should try to find a way to either demo these headphones or find a seller who has good return policy.
650 has a nice roll off the treble for long term listening. That’s what they were meant for, long term critical listening that would be non-fatiguing. They were Sennheisers attempt to prove that headphones can bring similar enjoyment to music as high end speakers, that’s my belief at least.
Anyway, if you want long term comfort easy listening with non-fatiguing highs and more emphasis in the bass than most open-air, particularly in the upper-mid bass area, this would be it.
K712 has greater bass extension into sub-bass than 650, but it’ss treble is very fatiguing. It’s great for the first 30-60 minutes, but after it’s bit much. And the soundstage is bit artificial to me. Lovely sound for those who love that though.
Overall R70x is far superior to the HD650. It’s clear, no veil. Better bass extension. It’s more blaanced throughout as well. Far more comfortable, my ears rest against the drivers of the HD650/HD58x, the pads are better on the R70x. R70x weight next to nothing and clamp is better as well. I personally find no weaknesses with the R70x, it’s my ideal headphone.
I personally prefer the HD58x to the HD650, have not heard the HD600 so you can give that a try. Probably can get a HD58x used for $100, incredible sound for $150 new.
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yeah that’s such a hard thing to get past with this stuff because people can say this headphone is bright or this one is dark etc. but it’s hard when you don’t know what’s their reference point. A person hypothetically coming off of the best headphones ever would think any other headphone is too sharp, dark or veiled no matter how good they are. That’s why i wonder or worry whether some who say certain headphones, like, the sennheisers are veiled but for a person coming from airpods or so would think they’re amazingly clear and so it’s kind of an exaggeration or just a relativity issue.
I quite like the sound of that, i’m not necessarily looking for an analytical experience that could take away for just enjoying the music but then again i understand as you say everyone is a bit different and an analytical pair of headphones can definitely be enjoyable.
Since checking out the r70x it has become the top contender for me with the 650’s and also was wondering about the 600 and 660’s.
What do you like of the 58x over the 650’s?
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yeah i have a friend who tried my senheisers and she said they were super clear lol
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TLDR : Pick a pair of cans that have a sound signature you would like to try and don’t worry about finding the perfect one right now. Averaging all the opinions you get so you try to get rid of those “people with >$1000 headphones” outliers is essential .
I experimented around with a few cans before I went in on my Sundaras. Was worth the experience and the knowledge I gained about my own tastes. If you’re looking for a head-banging super-energetic experience I agree (and mildly emphasize) that staying away from Sundaras (at least for a bit) is a good idea.
Another suggestion is stretching the budget a tiny bit and going with trying both the 58X (which I still need to listen to) and 4XX and seeing what you like about both. Having more headphones to compare and find out what you really like (and really hate) is helpful. You might even find yourself liking something you thought you’d hate
Progression on my went like MDR7506->DT770->DT990->HE-4XX->Sundara->PM-50 (and still continuing for the forseeable future).
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That’s the plan I’ve set out to go with now, I figure I don’t want to just jump onto the sundara’s. That would be like skipping a whole lot of levels. It’s exciting to think of trying out different sound signatures over time and think I’m somewhat interested in trying out the sennheiser signature for a start. Beyerdynamic will be nice to try out because imaging is great on them apparently and so could just change the experience drastically.
I would love to try the 58x or 4xx but massdrop doesn’t deliver where I am. I could find a workaround, but with the current world situation it makes international trade kinda difficult (I ordered thieaudio legacy 3’s about 10 days ago through DHL express shipping and from other people’s experiences its going to still be some time before they get here).
I’m excited to maybe try a dac/amp combo like the schiit modi and magni’s or see what tubes are like but that will be later on
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