Please help, I need DAC to match my zmf vc and topping a90

Equipment / Electronics / Gear / Accessories DACs
21

I was debating between the bf2 and Ares ii for quite sometime. I watched a video where they were compared and that video is what finally convinced me to go with the bf2. According to the comparison, the BF2 struck a really good middle ground between a good delta sigma dac and a good ladder dac. The ares seems great as well, outperforming the BF2 on a soundstage front. But I was worried that the signature would be a little too relaxed for me.

Basically the conclusion was

Good delta sigma dac= best detail retrieval but worst in soundstage.

Ares ii= best in soundstage and “natural” sound but worst in detail retrieval.

BF2= basically in the middle. Still great soundstage and overall natural sound but still retaining and good amount of detail and sparkle in the highs.

For what it’s worth, I love the bf2 and don’t see myself needing another dac in a while. I prefer it being a middle ground because it makes a an easier pairing for other amps and headphones.

Question, any reason why you’re not looking into a tube amp? I guess it’s not the best for gaming exactly, but if you’re really trying to get soundstage and imaging that will help quite a bit.

I’d personally go with the bf2 and still retain more detail overall. It’s easier to add the soundstage with a tube amp and even mellow out the top end with a tube amp or another “more relaxed” solid state. But you wouldn’t be able to add the detail or sparkle that the dac isn’t providing.

That’s just my 2 cents.

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22

Well, the main problem is that he is new and does not know yet where the journey goes.
Speak his preferences, what he likes to have where for included in the sound ect…

I find the Zmf a bit too high for a start.
But does not mean anything.

Therefore, the best thing is that he tries the A90 with at least one Dac that can also what and must not be replaced immediately.

You are certainly not wrong with the tube amplifier, even if the market is a bit thin.
Except hybrids there is nothing in between if but then is self-made or similar available.And then equal to the high-end stage that costs the same time what.

Your statement about the Bf 2 I find overall well described would not be completely wrong for starters.
At least until the preferences have developed.
Obviously, these are nuances what concerns the Bf2 and Ares.so as I read that out.

I think he had gotten good impressions in the meantime as well as opinions and should decide for himself.
Otherwise he is even more confused at the end than at the beginning,:grin:.
I also stay out now if no further questions are :innocent:.

23

@db_Cooper yes I did get the amp but I’m returning that today due to it being a bottleneck in my setup so far. I ordered myself the ZMF Dec 24th, so I’m afraid the headphone’s aren’t going to show up before March

I’ve been keeping away from the combos thinking the separation is optimal as well as later upgrade are doable without the need to substitute both a dac and a amp. However, now that I’m returning the amp I need both and let’s say my budget is 2K for amp and a dac. Then maybe I’ve got no choice but your combo? What is it? And what would be the best pairing with the VC? (Including above budget)

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24

Hello,
You can still stick to the Bf2 or Ares with a better amplifier like the Violectric combine.
Interesting would be Singxer Sda 2 C, Questyle cma400i, possibly also the used Questyle cma 600i, or the Questyle twelve which is the successor of the Cma 600i.
Singxer has recently thrown a pure headphone amplifier on the market which also looks promising in terms of performance and price.

Spontaneous if you still live in the Usa
Could Kitsune still have something.
I also find this one appealing

You can buy it as a dac,or dac/amp combo.

25

Since you’re looking at March, more than likely April, save up a little, and get yourself an really upscale amp/dac combo. You have a lot of time to shop around for a $2800 dollar used piece of gear that someone will let go for $1700.

26

Thank you @WaveTheory, I appreciate your time and comments :slight_smile:
I’m such a newb so there’s nothing I can really contribute with, except for a decent review of my gear when I’ve got it and had them for a little while so I can comment on experiences as opposed to impressions.

I’ll send the A90 back tomorrow, luckily never used it so that shouldn’t be a problem. Now I’m looking into the Vioelectric V281, GS-X-mini, Dragon Inspire IHA-1 or the Benchmark AHB2 to substitute my A90. I will spend a lot of hours looking into each one of them, because this will become a long term amplifier due to the price point.

Lets say I go crazy and get the perfect DAC right away, which would you suggest? I will stick to the VC’s and one of the AMP’s mentioned above for the foreseeable future.

27

Right @Deleeh, I guess it’ll take me a lot of time to perfect the setup to my unacquired taste. First I need to start somewhere and that somewhere is likely to be a lot closer to endgame thanks to you guys.

28

Darn it, you just added another three hours of research haha I love it! Thanks @Deleeh :slight_smile:

However, I thought the AMP for VC should be tubes, do you not agree or is this hybrids?

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29

Good point @db_Cooper, how long did it take from order to delivery for you?

If I can get a DAC-AMP for 1700 I’ll be very happy! Do you have a specific in mind? Maybe for sale? hehe

30

Thank you @AECH that’s well written and what your saying definitely makes sense to me

I’m focused on tube amp now after deciding to send the A90 back to the dealer, I bought that waiting to get the Argon T60s, but as I kept reading reviews and watching Zeos’ reviews of the ZMF VC I fell in love and went crazy. Also thought the A90 was a really good AMP, and I guess it still is, for playnars and IEM’s just not the best fit for my endgame headphones

I’m still leaning towards the Ares II, but your reasoning for the BF2 is hard to ignore, so I just might have to get a specified AMP to make up for the BF2’s soundstage. Imaging is much more important for me anyhow

31

I’m the worst guy to ask! My Eikons took 122 days from the time I ordered. That being said, I have a Liquid Platinum with some mods, and my Eikons and for me at this point in time, I’ve reached my desktop end game. I’m using a Holo Cyan DAC. I bought it with the amp because I figured it would be easier to sell if I neded to. The DAC is insanely good, the amp, meh. But like I said, I love my MLP.

Eventually @M0N will chime in. I don’t think you’ve gotten a single word of bad advice here, everyone has their own perspective and if their perspective works for them, that’s great. Mine has worked for me but… I didn’t get to my the equipment I have today on my first go around so I had a clear understanding of what I was looking for.

So whatever people tell you here may or may not be right for you. We all hear differently. I’m assuming that the ZMF VC is in every way better than the Eikon, but what no one other than my listening to is can know is whether or not I would prefer it over an Eikon.

I have an Audeze LCD-2 Fazor that I love, most people hunt down the pre fazor version. So Iike I said, we just don’t know.

The other realization is that I’m not aware of 2/3 of the high end brands out there that someone else is. Given that your VC is a top shelf flagship, IMO going mid level as far as source gear, will probably be a mistake. But just as the headphones can and do sound different, there will also be differences in the way DACs sound and amps sound. So you’re not looking for a good DAC or a good amp or a good headphone. You’re looking for a good chain.

I have a Bottle Head Crack with Speedball amp and a few upgrades to it, that I listen to with an HD600. That’s more enjoyable when I just want to listen to music than my desktop setup that cost 4 times as much. Go figure.

Last night though, listening to the Holo Cyan, Liquid Platinum and Eikon chain (yeah I was listening critically) was a sublime experience where I came to the realization that more money on improvements wouldn’t serve to increase my enjoyment. (I should focus on my living room stereo) My gear isn’t the best by a long shot, but don’t tell me that I didn’t enjoy it just as much and someone else that probably got gear that cost four times what mine cost but perhaps isn’t as synnergized a chain.

You decided to go at it from a different direction, buying top shelf right from the get go, then don’t short change the chain by sticking in something that will be a bottleneck.

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32

For the vc im wondering if the hagerman tuba would be a good tube amp for you. @M0N ?

Bf2 staging is really great, so i wouldn’t worry too much about that. I cant chime in on the ares2, so not sure which dac would be best pairing, but i loved the bf2 with Eikon and VC. Timbre,Stage, and a well done smooth warmth.

33

Thanks again @db_Cooper I will definitely not allow anything in the chain to bottleneck my VC’s, so I’m very grateful for all the good advices I’ve got already!

I’m sure it wasn’t the best way to get started, but I need closed headphones and really wanted the imaging and soundstage of the HD800S or better, as well as a good headphone for music. I figured I needed one open and one closed, but was afraid the closed wouldn’t have good soundstage and imaging without spending a whole lot. So I figured the luxurious VC’s was a great fit instead of two separate headphones, and they look absolutely amazing to me :smiley:

Now I suffer the consequences of realizing the increased of cost in the rest of my chain, which I should’ve understood earlier. Some reviewers really made me think the AMP and the DAC wasn’t all that important, now I know better huh?
Looking at USB cables at $200 makes me “happy” there’s some waiting time before the headphones comes home haha

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Yeah, that’s one of the battles we regularly have to fight on this forum. You’re making a good decision, tho. Since you jumped to a totl headphone you really do need to invest in a high quality signal chain to make that headphone purchase worthwhile. Stay plugged into this forum. There are good people here, many of whom are plugged into the used market and can help you make connections there, if you’re comfortable buying used. I’ve bought lots of used stuff with great results. Audiophiles tend to treat their gear very well.

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35

Interesting, the Hagerman Tuba is a lot more affordable than most of the other recommendations. Is it balanced? And I can see there’s not XLR on it? How does interconnects affect the sound? My VC will come with mini XLR for the headphones and regular 4-pin XLR on the amp-side of things.

Yes yes, it seems BF2 might be the one. Kind of hard to both be looking for AMP and DAC at the same time due to differences like BF2s might be better suited with an tube AMP than solid state in regards to soundstage and such :slight_smile:

Seems like I’ll run for the suggested setup that makes the most sense to me after reading separate review and comparing everything, including budget hehe

What do you think about DAC-AMP combos? Maybe its possible to get a bit more for the dollar for those?
I’m somewhat afraid of the fact I can’t upgrade one or the other without buying to new units later on, but that might not even be necessary if I get something great. On the other hand, I’ve been told many times that sound is very subjective, so I think its best to buy two separate units as opposed to one combo unit

36

This is a good point of clarification, @AECH. My comments above should emphasize that the Ares can be perceived as being more detailed than BF2 without actually being more detailed. It has a more energetic presentation that can come across as containing more information but is really just being more forward about delivering what it has. That’s a trait upon which it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone to have a preference either way.

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Tuba doesn’t do balanced out, so u would need a single ended cable. As far as dac/amp combos, generally one or the other loses out on performance for the price, but there could be a used combo that could be nice. The questyle cma800i I had sounded great with zmf but the dac was slightly behind the bf2, but for the right price, it could be worthwhile as far as price to performance haha. @sa11297 i think may have an 800i for sale

38

Just use an adapter, given the option I buy all my headphones with 4 pin XLR, and just use short adapters on amps like the Tuba.
The VC ship with 2 cables, mine shipped with 4 pin XLR and 1/4 inch.
The BF2 and Tuba is a good combo for Eikons or Verite, you can certainly get more out of a Verite with more money, but probably not in that price range.
You will want to budget an additional $80 or so for tubes to replace the stock ones on the Tuba, it’s one of the few amps I think it’s critical to do it on.

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39

I love my tuba and I also just picked up a feliks echo, they seemed to be two of the best recommendations I the 6-700 dollar range. I’ve only had the echo for about a week and I need to do some AB comparison between it and the echo but just from I’ve listened to so far they seem to be pretty equal as far as the soundstage and imaging goes. With stock tubes, I would say that the echo overall performs better in my opinion but when you throw some better tubes into the tuba things get tricky.

The stock tubes in the tuba are still good but you’ll get so much more out of some good NOS tubes.

As I quick comparison Without direct AB here’s what I will say about the two. This is with the rca tubes I put in the tuba and stock tubes in the tuba.

They are equally detailed But while the echo retains all the detail, it smooths the treble and mids ever so slightly.

Tuba: more neutral signature and more sparkle in the higher frequencies. As far as sound stage goes, it seems to evenly pull everything out a bit and has great imaging. It powers everything I have just fine but it definitely has less power of the two over all. Also better match for low impedance as well as high impedance with the low and high outputs.

Echo: very very slightly elevated bass but stays tight well balanced. Same amount of detail as the tuba I think but it displays it differently. The treble isn’t recessed or extended but it ever so slightly rolls of the notes and makes it more relaxed sounding. Very pleasing sound. With soundstage, this one pulls everything out but kinda pulls out the mid range a tad more and brings vocals out a bit more. I like this for the senn hd650s a lot. It doesn’t pull the vocals far far out but just enough. I think this brings the width out a tad more than the tuba but the tuba has slightly better imaging overall.

Honestly it’s a tough comparison and I def can’t say which is better. The tuba is better when I want don’t want too much flavor but what the soundstage and 3D imaging and the echo is better when I just wanna chill out and have a more relaxed sound. Of course this smoothness is ever so slight. It’s not like a super warm signature by any means. Just slightly more relaxed than the tuba.

Again this comparison is with stock tubes so it’s impressive that the echo performs this well with stock tubes. I plan to get some nos tubes down the line.

40

Once again, I wanted to take sides with the topic creator.
It would be good to let it rest now and not offer anything more.:innocent:

Because he is also new and does not yet know where the journey is going.

He has enough together now to read one or two tests and do some soul-searching.
You can always readjust later if he is missing something.
And above all, he must first find his own taste for what he likes in terms of sound, and clarify unanswered questions when the selection is closer together.

At least most people end up at a level where the devices will differ somewhat in the end.
I find the introduction to the tube a bit risky at the beginning if you haven’t already heard something here and there.
That’s why it would be good to get some peace and quiet now, otherwise he’ll be too confused.
I also know that you always want to have everything at the beginning, which is usually too much or not what you wanted.

The important thing is that he has received good equipment suggestions that can drive his headphones. Everything else is on the side for now and has to develop.:v:

I don’t mean any offence by me, we all started out small and got better.:blush:
So bear with me and especially with him.
In the end, it’s him who takes out the wallet, so he should be able to decide.

Another suggestion would be that if the device is bought new, it is only delivered when the Zmf is already there.
If you really don’t like it, you can at least return it.
Surely used devices can be sold again and takes time.Especially now in the Corona time not everyone has money.That would be my last tip that I would give.:hugs:

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