"Short" High End DAC Comparison

What if we measured life on an enjoyment per dollar scale? Things like taking your dog for a walk on a spring day would measure very high, cause you know it doesn’t cost any money. Yet I know I’d still spend money to get the most enjoyable listening experience I could afford, or justify. The enjoyment per dollar scale and all that.

There are things that I’ve spent more on and enjoyed less. Music just seems to always be a component in those moments when there’s a confluence of events life events, thoroughly enjoyable, and so here we are.

So that’s an interesting topic for sure. I would say that I can actually get equal enjoyment for lower cost in terms of owning and using a dac per se. Like I’d say out of just owning something, owning an allo revolution gave me about equal enjoyment to some of the higher end dacs I had tried in the past, but that only counts on the idea of owning it (aka the enjoyment from just having and operating it). Like sometimes it’s just cool owning something unique, interesting, or feature rich with lots of things to tweak. Personally don’t care about looks or cool/hype factor so that’s not a factor for me, but I bet it’s a factor for some.

But I would say that my enjoyment of music is where I have typically found more dollar does tend to lead to more overall enjoyment, which far outweighs my enjoyment of simply owning something. So I guess it depends on what type of enjoyment you value more if you are trying to min/max your enjoyment per dollar

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Hahaha, yeah I mean we’d have to talk about the definition of JOY itself. This morning I was having a conversation with my wife about the phenomenon that is “unboxing” videos. Which IMO is the height of consumerism.

There’s cheap joy and expensive joy and everything in between. There’s also the joy brought about by growth and experience that although may come with a dollar amount associated with it, you can’t get to unless you have that ownership experience with a product.

Something as simple as a pad swap can have a dramatic effect on a sound chain you already have, and that in ad of itself can bring joy.

There are a bunch of posts in this forum where I’ve said, that I don’t think I’ve enjoyed anything more than my crack with the HD600. Not the best by but we’ve all had many moments of joy in the hobby and the cost of the gear is often secondary to those moments. Many times along the way.

I guess as long as we’re not rationalizing purchases and chasing the next upgrade because it’s an upgrade, then it’s all good. People are at different levels on the social economic road of life, so it’s good to understand early on in the hobby that the enjoyment is often the same level of JOY, and it can be had at the $500, $5,000 or $50,000 the sound may be more refined but the enjoyment is exactly the same.

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Lol yeah, a type of content I never expected to become popular

:+1:

Small tweaks can be a big deal at times

The good olde crack w/sb + hd600/650, really awesome combo. Personally what I tend to gravitate to when I want to listen to music and work at the same time. Most of the stuff I have is too demanding of my attention and will completely distract me, but the crack + senns just strikes a great balance of enjoyment and not demanding everything from the listener lol, great example of a setup really fit for casual music enjoyment without disappointing

Also ignorance is bliss is something to really live by here lol, if you find yourself stretching too far for an upgrade, if you are happy and satisfied enough with your current setup, just stop while you’re ahead for the time being lol. It’s so much easier to chill out and enjoy what you have at that point. If you keep pushing too far, you will not feel satisfied at all. This isn’t to say to not take the next step when you can, it’s just to say that make sure it’s actually a right time to do so

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Also another aside, so far the gaia is pretty solid for what it is, so far the gaia offers a very nice place to be for a ddc, generally an overall enhancement for most dacs I’ve tried (that I still have), and it’s price point is attractive as most ddc I’ve tried tend to be well under or well over, so it’s a good inbetween point that would be more reasonable for most people imo

Will comment on the terminator again tonight when I collect my thoughts again

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I get that feeling with my Aeolus. Not the most technical by any stretch but I find myself just mesmerized with its sound sig. I pretty much forget about analyzing music whenever I have those on.

Got a supra usb cable recently to try and dip my toes on some cable upgrades. I did not expect such a drastic change. I knew in my mind that prior to the supra I was inviting a lot of noise to my system but, well, I’m here now. lol I’m still shocked how a simple reorientation and cable swap led me to this…

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So after more listening with the term II, I am liking it more than before, I think it’s started to calm down and settle in, and trying with different pairings I do enjoy it a bit more now. I still have the same qualms as mentioned previously, but I feel like they are less prominent and intrusive now. Generally so far the terminator actually does a great job of making lesser recordings pretty fun, I wouldn’t say it over exaggerates things, but it maintains more energy and liveliness in poor recordings vs other options at this price point, so it can pull off more with less compared to other options. The tonal density is fun, it’s impact is well done and has good grunt without overwhelming the rest, the boosted clarity factor makes things sound pretty clean without sounding analytical, and stage while not organic is holographic and separation is pretty nice which lends itself well to working well with music that doesn’t inherently have those aspects itself.

That being said, I’m not fully sold on this dac yet at the price it sits in. I think it really lacks the refinement and nuance that some other dacs at this price point sit in, and that does get to me. And it’s deficiency in microdynamics and treble control is off putting. If I had to explain it, it sounds like it has most of the pieces, but doesn’t quite put them together correctly if that makes sense. I do think it’s a good dac, but at like 4.5k and really not much cheaper used, there are other options I would consider first before the terminator imo.

A good comparison might be something like an aqua la voce s3 if I wanted more organicness and nuance while looking for cleanliness and clarity. I’d say that the la voce does lack in terms of impact and slam compared to the terminator, and also doesn’t have the tonal density the terminator has. But the aqua to me sounds much more nuanced and organic while remaining very clean and clear, it’s stage isn’t as immediately holographic as the terminator but is laid out more organically, with better depth and placement, a blacker background, and better sizing of instruments and the stage depending on the recording. The la voce also is a big improvement over the terminator in microdynamics and low level resolution (but the terminator does have more impressive macrodynamics), with simply more to offer (along with texture). Treble is also noticeably more articulate and well balanced offering more refinement and capability over the terminator in this aspect. Timbre is also better than the terminator on the aqua. Terminator is more forward than the aqua. Speed wise they do feel both pretty snappy, but the aqua portrays attack and decay more organically imo. I will say the terminator has more command over the low end with better extension, impact, and control in that region. The terminator also does sound more engaging and involving with lesser recordings where the aqua can sound a bit more boring.

Another good comparison I might make would be the lampizator amber 3, which I think would represent a warmer, thicker, more organic sound with good impact and bass/midrange performance. When it comes to stage, generally to me the amber can sound more immersive and involving stage wise than the denfrips, but the denafrips has more defined placement and sharper imaging, but the lampi lays things out more coherently and feels more coherent stage wise. When it comes to low end, the amber is a bit softer but still digs as deep, hits with almost as much control, and actually more texture than the denafrips. Timbre is better on the lampi overall, the midrange is sweeter and more dense on the lampi with less dryness than the terminator. Detail wise it might be on equal footing but I think the lack of microdynamics kills some of the lower level info on the term, which is not a problem for the lampi which has very good microdynamics, and almost as good macro as the term. In the treble the lampi does have a bit less extension and sparkle than the term, but has much better refinement and better smoothness while maintaining technical ability. Speed and separation wise the term does take it home here. Both have reasonably black backgrounds but neither really excel here. Generally signature wise the lampi takes on a more neutral natural signature with a bit extra warmth than that, and the termi takes on a more clean and clear signature (but not the typical dryness or leanness that comes with that sig).

An interesting comparison might be a schiit yggy a2 (even though signature wise the termi actually sounds a bit more like an a1), while I would generally say the terminator ii is ahead in most aspects, I think the yggy a2 can hit a bit harder with more impact in the bass, and generally has a more refined signature overall. Also more controlled treble overall imo. I would say the yggy a2 has more organic timbre than the terminator. The terminator is more detailed though, generally more macrodynamic (although potentially tied for microdynamics, yes that really is bothering me alot on the term), more impressive spatial recreation (but yggy is wider sounding but less depth), better speed, and a blacker stage background. Also generally better separation. It is also more impressive how more controlled the terminator can be when throwing around as much tonal weight and density as it has. Generally signature wise the term is more cleanly here where the yggy a2 is going to be warmer, smoother, and more rich overall. I would say the term is a higher tier dac when it comes to technical performance, but somehow the yggy a2 feels more refined to me overall than the terminator, which is not something I would want to say about a dac that is double the cost of the yggy

But yes still nice, has it’s quirks, can see the appeal, but at the moment still somewhat mixed given it’s price point

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Listening to the la voce last night with susvara and some cymbal/ride hits rung out so long(in a good way) and hardly bled in/got in the way of the other instruments. So cool to hear that carry thru while also getting clear vocals,bass,etc

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Terminator would also do a good job separating things and preventing bleed, but the problem is that the it does it in a manner that sounds unnatural where the aqua is able to do that while still sounding organic and correct, where the terminator feels exaggerated and overly separated, it sounds less coherent and feels disjointed and unconvincing. Also it’s decay felt a bit too unusual, attack is fine though

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Anyone have any ear-time with the Meitner MA 1 v1? I see a used one for what I think is a pretty good price (I think lol).

Generally asking for overall sound characteristics, downsides (like usb input sucks or something), and relevance to today’s offerings…

RIP Termi - I was really pulling for you…

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A lot of really great information being presented in this thread, maybe too much for me, lol. There are so many pieces to the puzzle, with each having a role in the overall picture. I feel as if I’m skiing down an Olympic level coarse when I should be relegated to the Bunny-Slope…

A sincere “Thank you” to all the contributors, it is much appreciated.

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Just make sure you are enjoying the music, cause there will always be “that next upgrade” don’t let the gear lose your interest in the jams. :blush:

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So it’s been quite awhile since I’ve heard one, I only have enough time to talk on the ma 1 v2

Going based off the ma 1 v2 it’s a dac that offers great liquidity and smoothness while having lots of resolving power and not forgiving poor recordings, very solid tonal density, high refinement overall, perhaps slightly a bit softer in the bass but great speed, control, and texture, smaller but deep stage, overall pretty great and do enjoy that dac. The usb on a v1 given it’s age is likely something you would want to bypass.

The more I listen to it, the more I get fed up with it lol, not going to be staying that long

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You keeping the Gaia?

No, but that’s also because I don’t have a use for it, as I don’t really need another ddc. But I’m more happy with that then I am with the terminator

Comforting to know, looks like a good item to have that will not outgrow anything I may throw at it when I finally get mine. Was really looking at a side by side stare and compare between it and the Hermes and other than the upgraded oven clocks and one additional (looks like cooling related) component, they are identical. so the extra five hundred bucks is all clock dollars.

So if you’re going to buy a DDC, might as well get the best clock in it you can.

Which is worthwhile imo, as that’s very important for a ddc or streamer

Yep yep

Hans B trying to invade M0N’s space :wink:

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As long as he likes the mola mola or dave more than the term lol

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