Can’t complain. In a way I’ve just realized how blessed I am having the pick of these things for ~$100-ish as opposed to having to pay 300 or 400 (which some of them used to cost) and have to actively look for them in brick-and-mortar stores.
And where would you put HE400SE compared to upper-mid-fi like 560s, Tygr and the three-digit DTs?
Indeed, indeed.
Any reason to worry about 880 for immersion/non-competitive gaming? Or classical, jazz, or Celtic-style vocals?
I’m increasingly often looking at the 880s, though I seem to have passed up on the best deal that was there for them. Anyway, I figured as semi-open-backs they would combine the best of both worlds and allow me to hear the phone/doorbell/emergencies while preventing neighbours from hearing me gaming on a quiet night, without sacrificing too much stage and other open-back goodness.
[quote=“Falenkor, post:33, topic:30509”]assuming you mean the GSX… hard skip that piece of junk. Overpriced trash that can barely even drive 250 ohm beyers, doesn’t sound that good imo either…
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Thank you.
Asgard tends to be much cheaper than Lake People but is awfully hard to come by. The G6 is $100-ish.
Would it be better to plug the G6 into my SBZ/Titanium or bypass it?
And, except for the (quite useful, admittedly) ability to plug the external one into a different computer, what would be better — G6 or internal AE7? Or GC7?
Glad to provide some entertainment value.
Also: Almost pulled the trigger on a Tygr today but developed second thoughts vs 990pro 600 EQ’d. Is there anything the Tygr does that an EQ’d 990pro 600 ohm can’t do?
Planar so different in pretty much every regard, does well with a pad swap… preferred pad swap honestly… mids and highs focus point meh in the bass. Definitely has the best soundstage out of them all, not the best in terms of imaging. Texture is good as expected for a planar, speed is there, slam… not really… lacking bass so its a weak spot. Good Clarity and quality of sound but definitely not the most “timbre” extreme. Competes just fine just fills another area… My only issue is that hifiman has quality control problems and I hate headphones that feel more fragile, build quality is a bit of a joke in the case of hifiman
not really no, its the jack of all trades beyer next to tygrs and the newest release 900 and 700. Needs an amp of course and it responds heavily to any pad swaps so you can flip its signature every which way. Extremely good headphone that can compete much higher than its price tag. Its biggest weak point is the bass isnt the most defined, its still quite bright so those intolerant may find some issues there granted its less bright than 770 or 990 so its got a good middle ground, and its semi open back… beyer already dampens their headphones alot so it has a more dampened intimate feel to its sound so not the biggest on soundstage though plenty acceptable.
im not sure how neighbors would hear you… open backs are not big open speakers… they just leak little a little bit of sound. Though it does combine the two of isolation and open back feel together… its interesting
g6 is its own amp and dac together… its an all in one unit… now granted it has a better dac in it than an amp so if you wanted a better sounding amp while keeping the g6 as a dac you can do that as well… at the same time g6 brings a lot of extra software gamer options to the table… using the g6 as a dac allows you to keep those options as well…
Soundblaster doesn’t make good sounding equipment in particular from what I have tried(atleast over 80% of their lineup personally) though they make things that just simply work… They do well enough for dacs to clean up the signal and provide an acceptable sound for those who mainly just care for gaming.
No internal is going to ever be better than a dedicated unit priced over $100 except in very very rare instances. Even that piece of trash GSX bests internal components. The exception to this rule is the internal connections of a sound card… however sound cards are at risk of disruptions like fuzz and distortion from the computer components as well as other things if not properly shielded. Dedicated units will usually be better regardless. This goes further when looking at combo units… as dedicated separate units will be better than combo in most cases… since combo units sacrifice power and in some cases sound quality to create an all in one.
The tygr and dt 990 are actually the same headphone its just that tygr is a modified version. The DT 990 actually is incapable of fully adapting the tygrs signature… Tygr is a much lighter V signature and more balanced overall while DT 990 is extremely V shaped and extremely sharp at that… however with that sharpness comes heavy amounts of detail and it has a lot of clarity that goes along with that… it has a very “ethereal” presence to its upper frequencies giving it a rather unique presentation to it… Tygr on the other hand just kinda fits where the hell you throw it at its quite versatile in that right… and really doesn’t have anything that would offend the ears for the most part outside of the slight peak in the treble and if someone wants to be fussy about the mid recession.
EQ can fix somethings… but its not an answer to everything… a headphone will still maintain its presentation and characteristics that it naturally has…
if your wondering about tygrs frequency graph on the harman chart here
Though I have seen some ignorance claim that the 250 ohm 990 sounds exactly like the tygr… despite them measuring very similarly they sound very very different… 990 is blatantly brighter and aggressively in your face with an analytical presentation… tygr is much more laid back and a warmer sound to it.
Granted 600 ohm 990 is definitely the best version of the 990 imo… I know quite a few that prefer the tygr over 990… just because tygr is labelled a gaming headphone doesn’t mean anything… its just a very good can that happened to be marketed towards the gaming crowd.
Thank you. I’ve decided to buy something tomorrow even if I’m going to end up flipping coins or rolling dice. I’ve decided to stop analysing things I can buy for <$150 and resell at a minimal loss. I’ve also realized that the key is to have two of them at any given time, buying two as the first step. Then sell on on the one I like less, then buy something third and compare with the one I had kept. Burn them in, burn myself in, give it time, like 2–3 months. Rinse and repeat. It won’t be the end of the world if I end up juggling 3 or 4 when a good bargain strikes — as long as I buy stuff I can resell without too much loss, meaning used, outlet or heavy discounted ones.
Right now, unless I buy something more expensive, the idea is to buy the Tygr and an outlet 400SE/400i, since I’ll be able to sell them on with minimal loss if any. As soon as a $80 K702 pops up, I’ll grab it too. Or $120 560s. Or <$200 Sundara. Or something else like that.
Meanwhile I’veo been able to find some good open-box bargains from Hifiman (both cheaper than closed-box and actually checked by a technician, so a double boon):
They also have an Ananda at $599, which makes me want to cry because judging by test charts and measurements it might well be my end game, and I could probably even justify the purchase, but there are just so many other things I should buy instead, so I can’t stretch myself too thin.
And they have a closed-box Deva Pro for $329, which looks just like the 400SE visually.
I’ve read the regular Deva has a huge soundstage but weird imaging as in artificially clustering instruments together and spacing them apart from other such clusters. For soundtracks I don’t mind, but for enemies that’s a different thing. I need to hear them where they are, with maybe vague precision but not outright confused directionality or distance, let alone conflicting with what you can see on the screen.
I’ve read Sundara praised for all sorts of things, including stage, but then it’s reported to be missing depth, and that’s worrying if you’re going to face archers, casters and such like. And I don’t want to be hearing much more from my left and right than in front or behind.
560 v. 4 — extremely hard to drive? As in I would have to buy a dedicated amp and not a cheap one at that. I’ve also read some opinions stating the Sundara is better overall, or even the 400s in certain particular aspects.
400SE vs 400i — according to RTINGS, 400i is safe for stage, but I’ve read multiple people characterizing the SE’s stage as small or narrow. On tonality and everything else, SE would be almost a no-brainer vs i for me.
5XX — not convincing compared to 400 series?
So unless I go for one of the others Hifimans, I’m grabbing both the Tygr and either the 400SE or the 400i.
So… which one should be better, 400SE or 400i? Could the HE-560 v. 4 be better and could it work with my existing soundard or some affordable amplification? Should I rule out the Devas and Sundaras or give them a chance?
Edit: Distanced myself from the Audio-Technicas for now, though their gaming sets seem to be cheaper than the same headphones without a mike attached. The R70X could be the exception, but I’ve read some bad things about its stage. Or should I give it another think?
I’ve been able to find one of those deals. Are the 560s still your end-game gaming headphone after you got the 400SEs? Any chance you could compare them to the Sundaras and Devas?
I don’t have the Sundara or Deva, but I can compare to the 400se. I also have the hd800s on hand right now, which should be the ultimate test if general consensus is to be believed.
I mean, several companies have return policies man… stores will let you try products… there are ways to check out products. I started out with amazon on my first few, just dont make it a habit is all
If you do this, give them TIME… I cannot stress this enough… it takes time to acclimate to a headphone and in some cases, speaking from personal experience especially when I first tried headphones like my nighthawk carbons, they can sound like absolute shit at first then suddenly… you find yourself really enjoying them and realize its not that they sound bad its that they are unique
Start out very low then and study sound signatures… dont stay within the same brand as then youll get essentially many cases of the same sound… I see teh hifimans listed down there keep in mind they tend to stay within the recessive bass more neutral bright category in just about every one of their headphones. I would highly encourage looking into alternatives as well just incase you may find that one perfect signature for you. I didn’t think I would enjoy a V shape signature at first as I was so used to bassier headphones or mid centrics like my first sennheiser but I ended up getting a 990 which clicked with me personally which then led to my treasured T1 and eventually my Aeons as I realized my love for harman as well
the two will compliment one another and youll get a taste of the different drivers. Go with SE instead of the 400i I find SE to be much better in many ways. Tygr is a balanced yet subtle V shape while SE still maintains the typical sound of a hifiman(granted not as good as Sundara in my opinion)
Never, ever go strictly by measurements… I know a few who swear by that crap but measurements barely tell you anything except how it measures on the chart, there is many many other details to a headphone such as texture, layering, depth, speed, slam, detail retrieval, separation, soundstage, imaging, timbre, etc that all do not show up on those graphs
go with sundara first… ananda is just a small step above it in many ways… If you dont like the Sundara you most likely wont like ananda… Same goes with like 400SE since its relatively similar(granted the quality jump between SE to sundara is much larger)
its one I haven’t got to yet… I have the regular Deva… I enjoy it personally for a wireless set of cans though, it can definitely be improved upon…
yes, yes it does. However, all hifiman have this crazy soundstage and air quality to them. As mentioned above… go low on their lineup since they are similar… make it easy to try them before going up the chain
its got enough depth to not cause issues of that sort… I wouldn’t personally be concerned in that particular regard.
Once you reach Sundaras you need strong equipment and good ones at that otherwise not only will you run into power issues but sound quality issues. Synergy becomes more important once you get to a higher price bracket
SE has the better overall signature in my opinion… top that off with I just like how it performs once pad swapped
AKA just buy the Deva… hard pass practically the same headphone in many cases
No, you should take your time and not jump to such a crazy high price point. I know its tempting but don’t plummet down the rabbit hole… otherwise you will end learning the hard ways like I had to… I would highly discourage this personally… its a journey… take your time. Sundaras are absolutely phenomenal sets of cans… I would encourage you to go with them before you ever even consider going any higher into hifimans lineup.
ah R70x, its not bad really… doesn’t get enough love but yeah its stage is kinda meh… try an AD700X before going up their chain like that so you get a general idea of what your looking at with their headphones in that area… they have a ton of headphones though that strike in different sound signatures. but I personally just don’t like audio technica that much as very few headphones of theirs sounded all that good to me till way later in their price brackets
I mean, Id never compare a 560 to a sundara… despite being relatively similar sound signature wise thats a different driver and overall presentation. Soundstage alone Sundara blows 560s out of the water but 560s has its own charms like in the mids since its quite mid forward
I have tried to love that headphone so much… I just can’t for some reason
To be clear, we are talking about the he560v4, not the 560s (freaking numbered headphones, am I right?).
My verdict is out on the hd800s. They do have some great qualities to them, way easier to listen to than I expected. Not sure if they are worth the investment for gaming though.
Also, I agree with the pass on the 5XX. Not nearly as enjoyable as the other Hifiman recommendations mentioned.
Yes, yes. Sorry for the confusion. HE560 v. 4 it is.
Way above my budget anyway. I may be a bit better off than the average person living here, but this is a low-income country. However, I seem to be bombarded with projects by my top client right now, so I’m looking at a succession of 100-hour weeks in December, which does mean massively more income than the average month, hence more cash to spend but close to zero forum/research/experimentation time. Which is I’m beginning to look at an $300 budget, perhaps more, and developing an itch for the $599 Anandas against my better judgment. Or who knows if not actually in line with better judgment, since pulling the trigger saves time and time is literally money for me this month. A month full of 16-hour business days and caffeine. The $599 is probably gonna end up being my week’s wage after taxes, bills and rent, so perhaps it wouldn’t be so bad, though again, I have a ton of competing expenses anyway. You know how it is with freelancers. Microbusiness is an endless sinkhole for money. Continued education, marketing, equipment, software, and then there’s private life. Family, holidays, GPU…
Thank you, will do.
Aight. While the Ananda is sooo tempting, especially considering the uprecedented rainfalls from my clients, I guess I’ll probably have to cut it at Sundara or HE560V4 and maybe amp or amp and dac, before going up. Though easier said than done, on an emotional level.
So… with some degree of oversimplification, could 400SE → Sundara → Ananda be described as a linear upgrade path? And one where at Sundara level you will benefit more from a proper amp & DAC than from upgrading to Ananda?
If that’s the case, I’m going to grab the Sundara and think about an amp+DAC.
Argh, the $109 for the 400SE looks so much too good to skip that I’m beginning to think about getting them for a family member or friend as a gift and just reselling them if nobody wants them (which is obviously unlikely to happen unless they’re dead into closed cans). Or even about trying them first before Sundaras because a $299 Sundara is way easier to find than a $109 400SE.
So, what’s left to decide is Sundara vs HE560V4 and maybe just maybe the 400SE simply because of the insane value for money. And to purge Ananda from my head.
Allow me to cast another vote on the HE400se.
You really need to hear the magic of open backed plannars. I’m never ever going to be without. Sure I might buy others. But I never wanna be without one to fall back upon
Gentlemen, I know this is gonna be hard to believe (and doubtless you must all be feeling like shrink faculty at med school holding a council over a hopeless case), but I’ve actually just bought a pair. The TYGRs it is, for the grand total of €115 shipped. To freaking Italy because they don’t ship to Poland despite sharing a friggen’ border with us. Luckily, I have a sister living in the Eternal City, who will be visiting for Christmas.
I didn’t luck out so much with Hifiman in the end. First, the 560 v. 4 is back to we-no-have-it land. If @MrAyrit comes back saying it beats both Tygr and Sundara, I’ll have to take it like a man and swallow the bitter pill of my own pathological tardiness and indecision.
Worse, the open-box HE400SE for $109 is gone, leaving $129 closed-boxes on the table. I’m not gonna weep for the twenty bucks, but Hifiman being Hifiman outlet = premium QA, which is doubly important to a n00b like me who has never heard a planar (or even a mid-fi dynamic) just might get a bad pair and fail to spot the defects.
So. I’m beginning to look at this from the perspective of a new Tygr owner on a budget and wondering if it wouldn’t actually be better to avoid listening to other headphones. What if I find the Sundara worse at soundstage and imaging but better at clarity, separation, speed and a thing or two more? Plus, my Sound Blaster Z’s dedicated headphone amp might be insufficient for the Sundaras for reasons other than impedance, while it’s bound to be sufficient for the Tygr. Meaning that sticking with the Tygr could help me avoid the amp/DAC spiral/sinkhole (which I already hear calling out my name, I’m afraid).
So. From what I read the 400SE is ~80–85% of the Sundara for way less than a half of the price, and while not exactly a problem-free ‘mobile planar’, it’s more amp-forgiving (though it does scale somewhat).
Given that $129 for closed-box 400SE is far less attractive than $109 for open, but still attractive for a freaking four-inch planar driver with super duper imba ninja magnet or two, and given that I have a pair of Tygrs flying from Germany to Poland via Italy for me (let’s take this opportunity to thank Beyer for its logistical genius), do I still want to buy them? And given the open-box Sundaras are still there for $299, which is not stellar but still $100 better than the usual NIB lottery (plus free inspection by a technician as a platinum deal from Hifiman), do I take the 400SE or skip to Sundara and hope my best that my Sound Blaster Z doesn’t crap out and gimp the SQ, making it sound to my n00b ear like the headphone isn’t all that?
You can’t go wrong starting with the HE-400se and then letting the rabbit hole deepen from there. But I suspect you may hang on to the HE-400se for a while, even as your audiophile journey reaches higher price points.
Yep, the HE-400se punch that well above their weight. Can’t recommend them enough, although you’ll need an amp. I power mine with a hip-dac pretty well, so you don’t need a nuclear power plant of an amp to get volume and good fidelity.
TechPowerUp claims ‘The gain is almost too high for normal headsets like the ASUS Vulcan Pro ANC and headphones like the Sennheiser PX-200 IIs. Even with a set of HiFiMAN HE-500s, the gain is more than adequate. The gain is just way too high for normal in-ears, making the noise painful. Its sound quality in music playback is really good for a $99 sound card - comparable to the ASUS Xonar STX, although it lacks quite a few features.’ So I guess in terms of impedance and sensitivity this will suffice, but I wonder about the impact on quality, especially for Sundara.
I sure dont think so lol. After like $500 the returns are very minimal imo. To many very good choices
Absolutely
Yes but a hard maybe on ananda… not as much quality gain as the first two.
At sundaras level it’s more power hungry and synergy required ananda is the same… 400se is recommended as not only do you gain a ton per dollar value but it’s very low power requirements make it easy to fit into a starting setup
Lol
Youd avoid the rabbit hole, good luck lol
I’d say about 75% but I like pad swaps for 400se more since it’s also the cheaper can too
Agreed… but I’d say take your time from there…
Tygr and 400se can definitely compliment each other
Certain amps of the sort will yea, I prefer schiit or lake people due to that personally… monoprice isn’t too bad there either but that’s more warmth and depth rather than space
Are the 560s still your end-game gaming headphone after you got the 400SEs? Any chance you could compare them to the Sundaras and Devas?