Sounds to me like you’re pretty close to pulling the trigger on the 560s or TYGR. Not sure where you can buy from or what their return policies are, but at this point, I don’t think you’re gonna get any closer with research. I say pull the trigger on one and see what you think. You can always return / resell if you aren’t satisfied. Or, my style, buy one of each and keep the one you like.
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The TYGR I would be buying directly from Beyer. The 560s, depends, as there’s a used retailer that sells them for a little more than half a new unit’s price but witouth the cable, which I would need to buy separately. The same retailer also sells Fidelio 3 for like another 30 bucks more, also without cable.
So much reading I dont have the Time for a response. Will check back in the morning… if need be write a long message lol
essentially these are just gaming headset versions of their headphones… g1x over there is practically the same as an ad700x. They are decent enough
the only issue with them is they are generally very overpriced for what they are… Its not terrible but its not that great either.
they are decent for planars as far as gaming headsets are concerned… penrose is the alternative and the wireless one.
That would be… quite difficult to do without an amp/dac involved already alongside a dedicated microphone… like technically you can get some of these headphones for around $100-$125 even in the case of the beyers… but that doesn’t leave enough for an amp or mic. Budget wise… youd be looking at… around the price mentioned above for the headphone… atleast $140 for the amp/dac less its really low power requirement of which that can be reduced to around $70 then the mic itself is gonna be atleast $60.
quite a few one size fits all headphones out there just depends on preference…
no, that goes mainly to hifiman and zeus having the largest in that general price bracket to my knowledge currently. Its definitely not bad not at all… it just has some inaccuracies though everything else is honestly quite nice… I will say though its not the best in terms of bass as its more on the recessive side of things and the k702 in particularly is the brighter more analytical one of the bunch
as mentioned… its esentially just a gaming headset variation to ad700x without any real fixes. Its decent
They really dont change much with an amp to be quite honest… comparing this to $300 or higher headphones? eh? no. Bass bleeds into the mids, things can be a bit too distant at times, and the frequency response for me personally has been slightly inconsistent as some other models I tried sounded brighter than the original I sat with. Its good for what it is… a fun very large bassier headphone but in terms of any form of fps gaming or competitive? hard pass, id modify a shp9500 before I took a fidelio. X3 may dial back in the bass but its horrifically bright and I cannot recommend that one due to that whatsoever.
not worth the price tag since 400SE exists.
its a very flexible signature… and honestly not bad as far as gaming headsets are concerned… its just that other budget planars exist within its price bracket that make it a hard recommendation. like mentioned with 400SE. Essentially its competition with Hifiman less you really want that closed back… your getting Audeze at quite a cheap price with the orbit just keep in mind… orbit is quite hefty too.
if your after a very large soundstage this probably isnt it… however everything else this suits quite well… I personally find these extremely boring to listen to due to just how reference grade neutral they are but they are extremely nice… These are worth a try if possible
outdated remark, though still slightly relevant. As far as gaming headsets concerned and closed backs the best so far have been penrose for wireless, orbit for planar wired, PC38x for open back, and then you have the closed backs with arctis and mmx300… which I found mmx300 to exceed the performance of the arctis by a rather large margin in many different areas other than mid performance. Depends on the price you can get them for.
most likely no, the stage of the arctis is on the lacking side much like other gaming headsets
there is absolutely for that price…
I still own the tygrs… despite all the expensive equipment… tygrs are quite disgusting at how good they are for the price. My only issue with them is I wish they had better mids and a bit more detail… other than that no complaints.
eh on ear… wouldnt really recommend for this.
good, but not great. Fills a niche area imo. better for music creators. Its essentially an ampless very neutral sounding headphone which the signature is very similar to that of the HD560s. I personally dont think its worth its price point not when the DT 880 already exists… but everyones opinion will be different towards that.
hard pass
I am rather curious why they would even do that… they are quite different thats comparing dt 770 to the dt 990 as thats what the two are based on.
not particularly a fan of it, but to make it short… it wasn’t quite as bad as I was expecting. Its passable enough in its budget for an ampless gaming headset. Though I would never take it over say a pc38x or tygr or something.
^ yep agreed
Well, to be quite frank, I can definitely tell theres a slight peak there… of course its not as bad as other beyers but I do notice it from time to time that its there… some people are so sensitive to treble that this can be a problem but in like… every case I have seen this is typically not an issue with tygr. Better than the 990 for sure in that regard.
What? lol on the tygrs? They are recessive but thats extremely over dramatized like… really bad over dramatizing. Its a more slight recession that pushes the mids in the back in the signature… you can bring this up with EQ to balance it out if really needed but no… this doesn’t cause any issues whatsoever. Also, howling higher pitch winds are not mids those are treble and sometimes in the upper mids/lower treble. I wouldn’t be concerned about this whatsoever when it comes to that headphone… and if anything I would encourage trying it for yourself to see.
I will say this, if you like your treble… this isn’t the one you want lol. Thats a warm and dark headphone.
they do, they are built into the ear cups.
Pretty much, 560s is the more reference grade neutral… it will have better more present mids(sennheiser is known for good mids to begin with). Treble is about on even footing and tygr has more bass… Same time tygr may be seen as quite a bit more comfortable and less clamp heavy.
cant really recommend less your looking for something like this specifically but for overall performance eh, up to you.
only if you get a good amp for it
Depends on the signature really… Beyers like to be more V shaped but later on they become a bit more neutral… Clear upgrade with good size stage would require quite a price jump… youd be looking at something like DT 1990 / T1 2nd gen or for senheiser the Focal like Elex
I think it will depend on what you prefer in terms of signature… and what budget your really wanting to work with here… I would personally just say contemplate between Tygr, 560s, and 400SE as they not only require little power but will have essentialy what your looking for
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i mean your comparing $80 headset over ones double the price but it’s actually a good sounding headset especially if you run it through an amp lol
turtle beach made something that doesn’t go straight to the garbage? lmao
You can get an 880 770 or 990 at $100. Coolermasters are in the same ball park. Hence I say decent, not bad. Beyer just released new headsets though so I’m currently waiting on those. As far as price to performance I can recommend that turtle beach but only in the case of headsets
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I got curious at some point as something was wrong. I was thinking: ‘Impossible. They can’t just have designed a whole new open-back just for a gaming headset. This must be one of the existing ones.’ But while it looked very close to the AD700X, something was off with the parameters. I went to Audio-Technica’s own website in case retailers had messed the specs up, and it seem the ADG1X is right up there with the AD900X. It has the same 5–35,000 Hz frequency response and 1,000 mW input power, while the AD700X has 5–30,000 and 750 respectively. Are they just tuned differently or are we dealing with an AD900X plus mike that costs less than AD900X minus mike?.
There’s a guy who sells HD650 + Fx-Audio X6 for $250 both, in very good condition. Except I’m not sure that little AMP/DAC is better than the SBZ I’m getting tomorrow from my friend or the x-Fi Titanium I already have (I recall reading somewhere that Creative claims the Z can drive some 600ohm phones, of which 200-something is probably true; not sure about the Titanium). And both the 650 (however lovely it might be) and the X6 are small-stagers. For music alone, though, it’s tempting.
The descriptions make it look like it might be to my liking. Minus the QC issues. Them costing $85 used / $126 NIB (the latter just like K612) leaves some money on the table for an AE5 or an external DAC/AMP.
On the other hand, I’ve been reading about the K712, and it seems to be close in sound while easier to drive and better made (back in Austria again). Except a bit more fun than completely analytical signature, or so I read. Which might be good.
And breaks, I hear.
Perfect way of putting it. It’s not helping that I don’t even know how a more intimate or average stage sounds vs a larger one. Moving in a sound bubble wouldn’t be bad because it would reflect the party atmosphere and synchro with the mini-map in a way. But I guess you can’t beat a huge stage for open-world games.
$157 shipped in my case.
‘For gaming we recommend the MMX 300,’ was probably the whole logic behind it. Maybe the signature is less contentious? The price certainly is higher.
I read the 600ohm version is better about that, but I’m not sure about plugging that one into a SoundBlaster Z.
Thank you. 
I’m relieved.
Great.
I feel encouraged to try K702, K612, K712, AD500X and every one up to 1000 as well, 400SE and the Nighthawks. I may have caught the bug, I’m afraid. 
A Bettie Page of headphones?
Difficult to choose, sigh. How does the signature difference between 560s and Tygr translate into classical, orchestral tracks, movie soundtracks, epic motivational music, Scottish bagpipes (they’re great after the 30th hour at work), Loreena McKennitt, Enya, Chris de Burgh, the occasional jazz, and the kind of sounds and ambients you’d hear in a mediaeval, fantasy or sci-fi RPG?
How bad is SB-Z?
[quote=“Falenkor, post:24, topic:30509”]Clear upgrade with good size stage would require quite a price jump… youd be looking at something like DT 1990 / T1 2nd gen or for senheiser the Focal like Elex
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Ironically, I overdid the research and ended up too tired to take on an overtime gig worth about as much as a pair of those. Maybe I should just stop with it and free up time in case there’s another opportunity.
I’m sure I’d be happy with any one of the three. Choosing without being able to listen to them is less easy.
I did say essentially they are different and 700x and 900x are very similar as well just 900x is technically better. I never sat and compared 900 vs the g1x so I cant comment on that
It’s good for the price honestly… it definitely can push around 300 ohm.
I’d go for 660s over 650… while 650 is a favorite the imaging is tighter on 60.
After the constant issues I’ve had with their products the only one I recommend is g6 which I can personally say drives 600 ohm beyers the others that claimed 600 ohm I had definitely did not
I personally prefer this or k7xx over k702 but I’m not a huge fan of their house sound when its analytical.
If it helps? I had 3 that did… always same issue with the buttons side going out.
Grab a headphone like a sennheiser of 500 series listen to it. Now grab a hifiman listen to it.
Bit subjective… some people like a more intimate worldly feel while others like the expansiveness
It’s a dt 770 retuned with a mic. 770 though does fine and is much cheaper usually. you can throw a modmic on it
Take it in steps… don’t rush it. I learned the hard way.
Hell go to the store if need be.
560s are very mid forward with raised highs but meh in the bass while tygr is bass and treble with mids pushed back. Both do well but it depends on how you like to listen… that really boils to preference
Thank you. Like I said, imma n00b. Well, I was hoping maybe for something like more separation, less congestion. I’ve just read some high praise of the 900X coming from a bunch of audiophiliac fps players having a long conversation in the comments under one of them’s blog post. Others chimed in. Kinda looks like something keeps drawing people back to the Audio-Technicas, even though they tend to be somewhat critical when describing its properties or technical quality. It was honestly confusing, because the same people emphasize transparency but also say the separation is lacking, and I’m like ugh… my brain doesn’t have the kind of resolution to differentiate between clarity, transparency and separation.
Indeed. The 660s would be way closer to it if I could get it for a good price. But when I saw the 650 and that little amp both together at 240 bucks total, my eyes lit up a bit. Still, gotta learn to rein in those urges because I’ve already been there with mechanical keyboards and ended up owning more than 20 simultaneously at some point. I’d rather not head down there with headphones before sorting out a couple of larger and more pressing expenses. I work in a profession that’s dying and won’t last till retirement while competition is tough, so I need to both crank up a serious marketing budget (a total waste for a one-man company) and an exit budget while it would be nice to go on holidays or upgrade the GPU every now and then, so I can’t splurge out too much. That’s making me both jump at clearly good bang-for-the-buck bargains but also very mindful that I can’t have it all. Maybe one, maybe two, definitely not more. Maybe if I end up having a nice amp/dac I’ll start zeroing in on sweet jackpot deals in the $80–150 range whenever I feel like having an extra birthday.
Thank you. My intuitive feeling was to not even look at those lower in line than the 6.
Oh man, that helped a lot. Thank you. With my budget it’s like well, I can afford them, per se. What I definitely can’t afford is replacing them every half a year if buying used, waiting a month on an RMA if buying with warranty, etc.
Probably inevitable.
Thank you. That’s comforting to hear, in a way.
Indeed. Too much work for a trip downtown (some 60 hours’ worth with an early Monday deadline), but there are at least one or two tech markets within walking reach. Nobody cares if you listen to the exhibition pieces, no letting down of a helpful salesman-owner like in a smaller specialized shop. At least I’ll update my ideas of what sounds like what by looking up reviews on the phone as I try them on.
I see. Thank you. Well, no mike for me. I have a long backlog of single-player RPGs and car rallies before I go back to multiplayer. So we can definitely skimp on the mike.
Gotta nail mine down then. I came in thinking I knew what it was, but the more I learn the less certain I am. Objectively speaking there’s a good chance I’m just a casual acting like a princess. I know I want cannon blast, let alone a broadside (though I don’t normally play the pirate gehre), to sound qualitatively and quantitatively more serious than just another handgun. I definitely enjoy the bassy moments with dragons and catapults and massive spell effects in the games I play, where in some cases the ground’s really supposed to be shaking and my desk was shaking under my hands when playing on desk speakers (and resolution, clarity, separation, etc. was certainly lacking, but the atmosphere was there). But there are a lot of those angelic/elven female vocals too, and the full gamut of medieval instruments or the kind of orchestral stuff that comes to mind when you think of Daniel Hope processing Vivaldi and other baroque tracks in his airy sort of ways (‘airy’ as in my subjective feel, most likely not the proper use of the technical term).
It’s kind of like… if needs to be crisp, then let it be crisp, and if it needs to be velvety, then let it be velvety, when it needs to be airy, then let it be airy and let it show perfect detail, separation etc., but when it has to be congested, then that’s what it should be, and if some rumbling and thumping bass or shrieking treble is supposed to leak into the mid range, then let it do so, but not of its own accord, not because of the headphone’s design or workmanship defect, not because of its individual signature or the manufacturer’s house sound but only because of the game developers’ intention. Which is obviously subjective and open to interpretation and those guys’ equipment definitely must have had some ‘house sound’ to it too, plus quite possibly most of the creators themselves probably didn’t overthink it like this but just used whatever they liked, processing it on whatever equipment they could affort, which obviously must have been a bigger budget than my house budget but certainly not unlimited, not even in AAA titles.
So this probably sounds like having a neutral signature/tuning per se, like no house sound, but being able to do everything well across the range and actually knowing what to do and, again, doing it well. Let’s say an even 8 out of 10 quality across the range (thinking lows, mids and highs, each further split into 3, for a total of 9 basic bands, maybe 27 or even 81 following the same principle but not necessarily 2187, as 729 would already be a blast), as opposed to 7/10 here and 9/10 there, and definitely not a mix of 6/10s with 10/10s, however tempting the 10s might be.
So perhaps we’re down to neutral and even but with the ability to both rumble/thump/roar and shriek/pierce, depending on what’s objectively needed right now in the game.
And good fidelity for metal vs plastic vs wood vs rock vs sand vs water (environmental) vs normal music instruments. With not too much distortion such as sounding metalic or plasticky due to the headphones’ build (cheap build comes to mind).
And something that would be — and please ignore this if it’s not helpful — let’s say, the acoustic equivalent or counterpart (and good companion) of playing in 2560x1400 @ high-ultra 45–50-ish fps (not the buttery smooth 60 or extended 120/144), with no artifacts (when playing for fun I’d rather my GPU/driver corrected them even where the devs had screwed up, no desire for ‘as recorded’ there, as opposed to when reviewing the game), and with some lag spikes or fps drops to 25–30 in the most demanding moments but not too much of that (the less than smooth experience at times is the price to pay for all the image quality). And visually I tend go for neutral ‘signatures’ with no unnatural gamma presets, no oversaturation (other than legit HDR, which obviously looks different from fiddling with RGB on 8 bit), etc., although VA’s natural perfect blacks and whites and high contrast tend to have a sort of appeal that IPS rarely can deliver (though my current monitor gets close). I wonder what approach to sound and music would be the best fit for this approach to the visuals.
Also, I’ve found Devas for $240 vs HE400SE for $171. Should I consider them?
I would sooner take the 700x due to budget… as 900x is not that much in terms of improvement imo. 1000x is the better one.
I mean, they are good headphones… they just suck at separation. Super budget friendly so alot of fps gamers like them… plus they are light weight like the typical gaming headsets too… makes them easy to grab and go.
600 series is nice and all just keep in mind that soundstage is very narrow… its much smaller than the others listed in this thread so far. If after a large stage then 600 series is definitely not what you want.
it can take a few weeks to acclimate to a new headphone to begin with… so buying multiple definitely isn’t the best idea.
the amp and dac is more of an investment… it most likely will outlast the headphones and then some, just some food for thought… at the same time amp and dacs can make thing sound a hell of a lot better while also allowing you to use a larger variety of headphone… That being said, as a gamer… I wouldn’t encourage any more than maybe around $300 ish for the amp and dac… since thats in the general range someone can get the schiit asgard 3 + modius for and I don’t see much reason to go beyond that less in the search of better sound quality as an audiophile.
As for the headphone, the higher you go generally the better the headphone… $200 is a sweet spot for gamers and around $400 is the “endgame” in many cases maybe slightly more since aeon, elex, argon, etc come into play slightly higher
it was admittedly annoying to deal with and why I just outright stopped using that headphone…
especially when starting new, its a good idea to get a general thought process on your own preferences…
if this is the case, you most likely aren’t going to be the biggest fan of that ad900x or k702… both are more bass recessive and take away from that, some food for thought. Same for the hifimans like 400se is also bass recessive. 560s is bass neutral for the most part so its not really capitalized.
that would be a more natural timbre sounding headphone for the most part… or even more analytical to keep things even the errors standing out… 560s, 58x jubilee, and dt 880 would fit in that… tygr isn’t the best case for “natural” but still works just fine. I suppose that new one DT 900 Pro X would fit into this equation as well…
being able to do everything appropriately, or rather “true neutral” has been chased for a long time… its just not particularly a thing… At the same time then you get teh Harman Curve which to the human ear seems to be the most natural sound presentation so you may want to search for one with that… Trying to think of the one with the harman curve that was cheap… I believe that was… AKG k371 to be particular… if you can find it to try it to see for yourself… granted 371 is slightly boosted above the curve ill post a graph below so you can see that
you can see the curve there meets up quite well with that one… 560s is another thats quite a bit close to the curve but the bass mainly in the sub bass is sunk in and it has a slight bright peak seen below
Tygr on the other hand definitely doesn’t follow harman
Harman Curve has been labeled as just flat or neutral in some cases… and generally is what people are after when they want that fits all spectrums sort of deal… one of the reasons I use the Aeon in particular actually is that its specifically designed for harman and damn good at that.
Rumble and roar wont really come with neutrality so to speak… itll drive itself but that hard hitting bass just doesn’t come from neutral… the shriek and pierce only comes from raised treble as well not neutral otherwise it just sounds balanced out.
deva are alright but youd really probably want a low latency setup for that… which would drag up the price on them, wouldn’t encourage such setup over the 400se
Thank you, @Falenkor Well, something I’ve realized today in the meantime is that there are gonna be multiple somewhat good opportunities to purchase used Beyers at quite good prices here in Poland, generally in the $70–80 range, including 880, 770, MMX 2nd gen (which I can get for a bit more but still less than $100), and so on, and the supply of the various AKGs is not gonna dry out. For some reason this realization has put me more at ease somewhat.
Thank you especially for the graphs. It does look like the K371 might have the ideal signature with just a little monkey business in the treble and a little raised bass, at least the latter of which is not a bad thing. The graph makes me think of the Classical EQ on my ancient JVC stereo, which is basically to raise all three bands equally (works great, resulting in a suprisingly agreeable listening experience even on a Bluedio, much unlike the experience with EQ off).
On a purely intellectual level, on the verbal aspect of this discussion, I probably should have pulled the trigger on the HD560s long ago, but something’s keeping me. For a moment, I almost came to terms with the decision to start with planars as my first serious headphones and skip the whole adventure and journey (however lovely it could be) with dynamic drivers. Great stage and imaging, even verticality, supremely natural timbre (good for sound effects, I guess), clarity and separation and all that jazz, with minor positional issues and generally agreeable if not wowing bass. Seriously, what more could one want, getting this kind of massive improvement for like $150. But somehow the pulling of the trigger on the HE400SEs didn’t happen. Perhaps so far it’s been Audio-Technica nostalgia, but I think I’ve probably managed to get over that. So maybe the K702 for $85 is beckoning at me? But, just today it’s been joined by 880 Special Edition 250ohm for the same price and MMX 2nd gen for just a bit more. It’s not like the world will come to an end if I buy more than one of them. Or if I wait a couple of days. Maybe givint it a couple more days before I decide what to buy is just what I need. Which would perhaps coincide with Black Friday deals on some of the more expensive stuff. The sole exception is the Tygr, which I fear could sell out from Beyer’s current stock. No doubt they will eventually replenish that, but if I was going to get Tygr at all, now would be a good time.
Plus, work’s piling up like crazy. I need… potions to stay awake. I’ve already passed up on one or two small jobs due to lack of time. So it looks like buying e.g. 770+880 at $80 each (used, of course) would be only marginally more expensive than e.g. spending 2 or 3 hours comparing their reviews. I’ve put up some alerts in case a used 1990 pops up, in which case perhaps I would jump at it solely to avoid losing hours of potential work time analysing, comparing and extrapolating reviews in the $150–300 range.
Re: amps and DACs, he SB-Z has arrived. It has a CS4398-CZZ DAC, JRC 2114 dedicated headphone AMP (Creative claims 600ohms, some guys online say nope but 220-ish is realistic) and JRC 4556A front amp. But my mind’s kinda drifting to Asgard or G6 or that Senn gamer thingy. Sigh, I’ll need to watch it lest it gets out of control.
Lastly, I’ve been toying with the idea of a buying some sort of cheap-ass used Alphas (or equivalent budget kings) with a broken mike as an interim solution, but it was not worth it compared to the price of NIBs, which then was not worth it compared to any of the used Beyers or AKGs, so I came back to the starting point. At this point I’m almost seriously thinking about just rolling 1d6. Or really waiting to see BF deals next week.
Edit: I caved in, at least a little. I took a peek in the vintage corner, and they had HD 530s for ~$100 and a HD 540 Gold Reference II 600 ohms in mint condition for ~$180. From what I gather, some people refer to them as the ‘poor man’s HD800’, some compare them to the 560s instead, and there are also some who say HD600s are better anyway. But there is pretty much a consensus about the stage being good and the timbre very natural, good speed, heavenly vocals, etc. Obviously hard to drive by something like the headphone amp on SoundBlaster Z or most other budget amps. Should I be getting these?
I wouldn’t see why there wouldn’t be… more so with beyers considering how old they are these days.
planars and dynamics have their own charms and are quite different in how they present themselves. I am rather fond of planars myself but theres not many I enjoy that are cheap
whole lotta decisions man, I can’t make that choice for you only try to help and guide with information.
cheapest I have seen a 1990 land was around $380 - $400 worth the money sure, but I would always encourage trying an 880 before a 1990 was considered… considering just how bright 1990 is as well and they are rather similar
assuming you mean the GSX… hard skip that piece of junk. Overpriced trash that can barely even drive 250 ohm beyers, doesn’t sound that good imo either…
g6 for gamer quality, asgard for audiophile quality… asgard is definitely leagues above the g6 in power, performance, and aesthetic however with the asgard comes a higher price as youll also need a dac… since this isn’t in the USA I assume its also quite expensive at that… Lake People is the alternative thats more friendly to those outside the US
I was never personally a fan of them myself especially not 540 gold over there which was rather peaky in the treble, I wouldn’t take that over a 560s personally…
that made me chuckle a bit… yeah, no. maybe in terms of frequency response sure… as 800 is rather bright and mid forward… but other than that? 800s overall sound quality and god forbid the ridiculous level of soundstage far exceeds that of the 500 series sennheisers
Can’t complain. In a way I’ve just realized how blessed I am having the pick of these things for ~$100-ish as opposed to having to pay 300 or 400 (which some of them used to cost) and have to actively look for them in brick-and-mortar stores.
And where would you put HE400SE compared to upper-mid-fi like 560s, Tygr and the three-digit DTs?
Indeed, indeed.
Any reason to worry about 880 for immersion/non-competitive gaming? Or classical, jazz, or Celtic-style vocals?
I’m increasingly often looking at the 880s, though I seem to have passed up on the best deal that was there for them. Anyway, I figured as semi-open-backs they would combine the best of both worlds and allow me to hear the phone/doorbell/emergencies while preventing neighbours from hearing me gaming on a quiet night, without sacrificing too much stage and other open-back goodness.
[quote=“Falenkor, post:33, topic:30509”]assuming you mean the GSX… hard skip that piece of junk. Overpriced trash that can barely even drive 250 ohm beyers, doesn’t sound that good imo either…
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Thank you.
Asgard tends to be much cheaper than Lake People but is awfully hard to come by. The G6 is $100-ish.
Would it be better to plug the G6 into my SBZ/Titanium or bypass it?
And, except for the (quite useful, admittedly) ability to plug the external one into a different computer, what would be better — G6 or internal AE7? Or GC7?
Glad to provide some entertainment value. 
Also: Almost pulled the trigger on a Tygr today but developed second thoughts vs 990pro 600 EQ’d. Is there anything the Tygr does that an EQ’d 990pro 600 ohm can’t do?
Planar so different in pretty much every regard, does well with a pad swap… preferred pad swap honestly… mids and highs focus point meh in the bass. Definitely has the best soundstage out of them all, not the best in terms of imaging. Texture is good as expected for a planar, speed is there, slam… not really… lacking bass so its a weak spot. Good Clarity and quality of sound but definitely not the most “timbre” extreme. Competes just fine just fills another area… My only issue is that hifiman has quality control problems and I hate headphones that feel more fragile, build quality is a bit of a joke in the case of hifiman
not really no, its the jack of all trades beyer next to tygrs and the newest release 900 and 700. Needs an amp of course and it responds heavily to any pad swaps so you can flip its signature every which way. Extremely good headphone that can compete much higher than its price tag. Its biggest weak point is the bass isnt the most defined, its still quite bright so those intolerant may find some issues there granted its less bright than 770 or 990 so its got a good middle ground, and its semi open back… beyer already dampens their headphones alot so it has a more dampened intimate feel to its sound so not the biggest on soundstage though plenty acceptable.
im not sure how neighbors would hear you… open backs are not big open speakers… they just leak little a little bit of sound. Though it does combine the two of isolation and open back feel together… its interesting
g6 is its own amp and dac together… its an all in one unit… now granted it has a better dac in it than an amp so if you wanted a better sounding amp while keeping the g6 as a dac you can do that as well… at the same time g6 brings a lot of extra software gamer options to the table… using the g6 as a dac allows you to keep those options as well…
Soundblaster doesn’t make good sounding equipment in particular from what I have tried(atleast over 80% of their lineup personally) though they make things that just simply work… They do well enough for dacs to clean up the signal and provide an acceptable sound for those who mainly just care for gaming.
No internal is going to ever be better than a dedicated unit priced over $100 except in very very rare instances. Even that piece of trash GSX bests internal components. The exception to this rule is the internal connections of a sound card… however sound cards are at risk of disruptions like fuzz and distortion from the computer components as well as other things if not properly shielded. Dedicated units will usually be better regardless. This goes further when looking at combo units… as dedicated separate units will be better than combo in most cases… since combo units sacrifice power and in some cases sound quality to create an all in one.
The tygr and dt 990 are actually the same headphone its just that tygr is a modified version. The DT 990 actually is incapable of fully adapting the tygrs signature… Tygr is a much lighter V signature and more balanced overall while DT 990 is extremely V shaped and extremely sharp at that… however with that sharpness comes heavy amounts of detail and it has a lot of clarity that goes along with that… it has a very “ethereal” presence to its upper frequencies giving it a rather unique presentation to it… Tygr on the other hand just kinda fits where the hell you throw it at its quite versatile in that right… and really doesn’t have anything that would offend the ears for the most part outside of the slight peak in the treble and if someone wants to be fussy about the mid recession.
EQ can fix somethings… but its not an answer to everything… a headphone will still maintain its presentation and characteristics that it naturally has…
if your wondering about tygrs frequency graph on the harman chart here
Though I have seen some ignorance claim that the 250 ohm 990 sounds exactly like the tygr… despite them measuring very similarly they sound very very different… 990 is blatantly brighter and aggressively in your face with an analytical presentation… tygr is much more laid back and a warmer sound to it.
Granted 600 ohm 990 is definitely the best version of the 990 imo… I know quite a few that prefer the tygr over 990… just because tygr is labelled a gaming headphone doesn’t mean anything… its just a very good can that happened to be marketed towards the gaming crowd.
Thank you. I’ve decided to buy something tomorrow even if I’m going to end up flipping coins or rolling dice. I’ve decided to stop analysing things I can buy for <$150 and resell at a minimal loss. I’ve also realized that the key is to have two of them at any given time, buying two as the first step. Then sell on on the one I like less, then buy something third and compare with the one I had kept. Burn them in, burn myself in, give it time, like 2–3 months. Rinse and repeat. It won’t be the end of the world if I end up juggling 3 or 4 when a good bargain strikes — as long as I buy stuff I can resell without too much loss, meaning used, outlet or heavy discounted ones.
Right now, unless I buy something more expensive, the idea is to buy the Tygr and an outlet 400SE/400i, since I’ll be able to sell them on with minimal loss if any. As soon as a $80 K702 pops up, I’ll grab it too. Or $120 560s. Or <$200 Sundara. Or something else like that.
Meanwhile I’veo been able to find some good open-box bargains from Hifiman (both cheaper than closed-box and actually checked by a technician, so a double boon):
HE-400SE — $109
HE-400i 2020 — $139
HE-5XX — $159
Deva Wired — $189
HE-560 v4 — $229
Sundara — $299
They also have an Ananda at $599, which makes me want to cry because judging by test charts and measurements it might well be my end game, and I could probably even justify the purchase, but there are just so many other things I should buy instead, so I can’t stretch myself too thin.
And they have a closed-box Deva Pro for $329, which looks just like the 400SE visually.
I’ve read the regular Deva has a huge soundstage but weird imaging as in artificially clustering instruments together and spacing them apart from other such clusters. For soundtracks I don’t mind, but for enemies that’s a different thing. I need to hear them where they are, with maybe vague precision but not outright confused directionality or distance, let alone conflicting with what you can see on the screen.
I’ve read Sundara praised for all sorts of things, including stage, but then it’s reported to be missing depth, and that’s worrying if you’re going to face archers, casters and such like. And I don’t want to be hearing much more from my left and right than in front or behind.
560 v. 4 — extremely hard to drive? As in I would have to buy a dedicated amp and not a cheap one at that. I’ve also read some opinions stating the Sundara is better overall, or even the 400s in certain particular aspects.
400SE vs 400i — according to RTINGS, 400i is safe for stage, but I’ve read multiple people characterizing the SE’s stage as small or narrow. On tonality and everything else, SE would be almost a no-brainer vs i for me.
5XX — not convincing compared to 400 series?
So unless I go for one of the others Hifimans, I’m grabbing both the Tygr and either the 400SE or the 400i.
So… which one should be better, 400SE or 400i? Could the HE-560 v. 4 be better and could it work with my existing soundard or some affordable amplification? Should I rule out the Devas and Sundaras or give them a chance?
Edit: Distanced myself from the Audio-Technicas for now, though their gaming sets seem to be cheaper than the same headphones without a mike attached. The R70X could be the exception, but I’ve read some bad things about its stage. Or should I give it another think?
I’ve been able to find one of those deals. 
Are the 560s still your end-game gaming headphone after you got the 400SEs? Any chance you could compare them to the Sundaras and Devas?
I don’t have the Sundara or Deva, but I can compare to the 400se. I also have the hd800s on hand right now, which should be the ultimate test if general consensus is to be believed.
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Sorry, meant to add that I loaned my he560 to someone. It’ll be a week before I get them back.
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I mean, several companies have return policies man… stores will let you try products… there are ways to check out products. I started out with amazon on my first few, just dont make it a habit is all
If you do this, give them TIME… I cannot stress this enough… it takes time to acclimate to a headphone and in some cases, speaking from personal experience especially when I first tried headphones like my nighthawk carbons, they can sound like absolute shit at first then suddenly… you find yourself really enjoying them and realize its not that they sound bad its that they are unique
Start out very low then and study sound signatures… dont stay within the same brand as then youll get essentially many cases of the same sound… I see teh hifimans listed down there keep in mind they tend to stay within the recessive bass more neutral bright category in just about every one of their headphones. I would highly encourage looking into alternatives as well just incase you may find that one perfect signature for you. I didn’t think I would enjoy a V shape signature at first as I was so used to bassier headphones or mid centrics like my first sennheiser but I ended up getting a 990 which clicked with me personally which then led to my treasured T1 and eventually my Aeons as I realized my love for harman as well
the two will compliment one another and youll get a taste of the different drivers. Go with SE instead of the 400i I find SE to be much better in many ways. Tygr is a balanced yet subtle V shape while SE still maintains the typical sound of a hifiman(granted not as good as Sundara in my opinion)
Never, ever go strictly by measurements… I know a few who swear by that crap but measurements barely tell you anything except how it measures on the chart, there is many many other details to a headphone such as texture, layering, depth, speed, slam, detail retrieval, separation, soundstage, imaging, timbre, etc that all do not show up on those graphs
go with sundara first… ananda is just a small step above it in many ways… If you dont like the Sundara you most likely wont like ananda… Same goes with like 400SE since its relatively similar(granted the quality jump between SE to sundara is much larger)
its one I haven’t got to yet… I have the regular Deva… I enjoy it personally for a wireless set of cans though, it can definitely be improved upon…
yes, yes it does. However, all hifiman have this crazy soundstage and air quality to them. As mentioned above… go low on their lineup since they are similar… make it easy to try them before going up the chain
its got enough depth to not cause issues of that sort… I wouldn’t personally be concerned in that particular regard.
Once you reach Sundaras you need strong equipment and good ones at that otherwise not only will you run into power issues but sound quality issues. Synergy becomes more important once you get to a higher price bracket
SE has the better overall signature in my opinion… top that off with I just like how it performs once pad swapped
AKA just buy the Deva… hard pass practically the same headphone in many cases
No, you should take your time and not jump to such a crazy high price point. I know its tempting but don’t plummet down the rabbit hole… otherwise you will end learning the hard ways like I had to… I would highly discourage this personally… its a journey… take your time. Sundaras are absolutely phenomenal sets of cans… I would encourage you to go with them before you ever even consider going any higher into hifimans lineup.
ah R70x, its not bad really… doesn’t get enough love but yeah its stage is kinda meh… try an AD700X before going up their chain like that so you get a general idea of what your looking at with their headphones in that area… they have a ton of headphones though that strike in different sound signatures. but I personally just don’t like audio technica that much as very few headphones of theirs sounded all that good to me till way later in their price brackets
I mean, Id never compare a 560 to a sundara… despite being relatively similar sound signature wise thats a different driver and overall presentation. Soundstage alone Sundara blows 560s out of the water but 560s has its own charms like in the mids since its quite mid forward
I have tried to love that headphone so much… I just can’t for some reason