My analytical headphone trophy goes to my 1990 hands down right now. That headphone loves to rip apart the sound and point out bad portions of music. Haven’t really had a true bright analytical closed back in house except maybe the 1770s but that’s kind of pushin it. T60RP argons I think were supposed to be like polar opposite to the dark t50rp right? It sounds interesting.
Hi @Falenkor have you tried the dt880 pro (250ohm)? I know people say the 600 ohm is better. But, I cannot find the 600ohm anywhere. I like the tight clamp the pro lineup of the beyers.
I’m a beyer fan as you. I have the t1.2nd, dt1990 and tygr at the moment.
Edit: I used to have the dt800 600ohm all black edition, sold it by mistake.
I have indeed. I did feel the 600 ohm was a bit more refined… treble sounded smoother more detailed. However, the headphone has lacking fullness / body to it’s sound with that brightness which causes me to not like the headphone personally. I preferred the 1990 with A pads completely over the 880 though I know others who definitely prefer the sound of the 880. Currently, I am in the process of sitting down with the 880 and a Darkvoice tube amp whenevr I actually get some time to sit down and give it a good listen, supposed to help with that lacking body.
ah yeah I think the black version looks better however, the interesting thing is that the 250 ohm limited edition black actually has a different tuning… its fairly similar to like a mix between 880 and 990 which I found odd after having sat with it.
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I’m completely new here but I will say I’ve wasted more money on sub $50 headphones every year or 2 for about the last 22 years which probably totaling around $600 at this point. About 6 years ago I bought a an Asus Xonar DG because I made the mistake of trying to save money on a motherboard and CPU based on some aligning opinions of terrible people who thought AMD’s FX processors were good value for money. I’ve gotten sick of all of it and I’ve grown to be willing to spend more and I’m done buying $100-$300 CPUs and sub $300 motherboards and sub $600 graphics cards.
A couple years ago I bought some Audio-Technica M40X’s and they were a step up in sound quality but of course those broke, kind of the same story as my $50 headphones. I’m done with $100 and under headphones. I’ve been looking at headphones for the past 3 weeks and obviously I’m here now. I’m done with closed-back headphones and it seems maybe I should have bought the Philips SHP9500 instead of the M40X but I’m passed that now.
I’m hesitant about the AKG’s because I’ve had the Samson/Superlux which are a similar design. I’ve looked at the Sennheiser HD 58X and the Beyerdynamic dt 990’s, and then I started comparing the 990’s and the 880’s and I’ve seen what DMS & Z and others have said about the 600 ohm 880’s. At first I was hesitant to go up to $200 but I wasn’t quite looking to buy an external amp yet and I’m certainly not at the point of buying a JDS Labs Element II and the dt 880’s. As far as I can tell the best option based on the soundstage and directional imaging, build quality and comfort are the TYGR 300R’s as a step below the 600ohm dt 880’s but close to those and maybe about 75% of the 1990’s. The only problem is the TYGR’s aren’t in stock so now I’m wondering what competes with the TYGR’s? Does anything even exist that competes with them at $200 and under or do you have to go up market to the $250 range to find something?
Welcome to Hifiguides.
Ouch, thats harsh.
They aren’t built the most sturdy but they do have a good sound quality if you change the pads. I use them myself for portable when I don’t feel like taking my modified KSC75’s out.
Build quality is pretty weak, but the headphone shp9500 is pretty modification friendly quite nice in my opinion.
It’s a fantastic headphone for sure and definitely strikes above it’s price point however, the ideology of needing a extremely powerful amp to drive them to proper levels such as an emotiva that’s modded with jumpers is ludicrous. You can literally go grab a Liquid spark from $70 - $100 and drive them with power to spare just fine and they will sound good. The thing about the 600 ohm beyers is they gain better sound quality depending on what you pair them with and the changes tend to vary wildly. 880 over there seems to benefit extremely well to tube amps and it really fills out it’s bass and brings warmth to the vocals.
In terms of imaging and soundstage? No not really to my knowledge can compete with it. You don’t tend to find that kind of presentation alongside laser imaging and a soundstage as big as a k7xx in the $200 range which is what makes it a bit unique and harder to find as it sells out fast. However, Tygrs are well rounded and bassy they do not have the Ideal signature for competitive they are fantastic however for someone with a treble sensitivity. Beyerdynamics brand seems to consistently punch out headphones with phenomenal imaging and soundstage however almost all their headphones are of the brighter frequencies.
What was crazier is that the tygrs were like $175 at a earlier point which is just absurd considering what they are capable of. I would say send beyer a message as they don’t seem to just randomly place the tygrs as “available” all the time and others have managed to get the headphone upon sending them a direct message. Otherwise your best bet in the $200 range would be the DT 880. You can snag a DT 880 at max $200 but you need an amp to drive it. However, it also doesn’t need to be in 600 ohms as 250 ohms(250 ohms are cheaper you can get these for like $125) is plenty good as well just not -as- detailed(potentially due to less brightness) or as potentially impactful in the bass really up to you on that regard.
Marketing wise to get better than a Tygr… I would probably say in the $400 region actually to gain better as then you start getting the Focals and other beyers
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Based on the word of Joshua_g, mh751 will be my choice for comp
But for casual what should I pick?
Monoprice retros is highly praised by Zeos but I don’t know if mid and treble is good enough cuz I play some rpg so I need a good character vocal and soundtrack
Is it good?
Compare them to CAL, X2HR, He4xx only for casual gaming and music?
Don’t want to spend more than $150
Note: tygr300r is 300 buck in my country
Honestly it’s not that I’m not willing to spend more, I’d probably buy the dt 880’s and a $300 stack and it wouldn’t be unreasonable to me relative to the cost to build the PC it’s connecting to just because my mindset has changed. I just wasn’t prepared to spend $500 on audio right now, it’s my own fault for even looking lol. On the upside I’m glad I didn’t just pull the trigger on the Fidelio X2HR’s or the dt 990’s I think I probably would have had buyer’s remorse if I’d missed out on the TYGR’s or the 880’s just because of $50 or $100. I’m still curious what the 600 ohm dt 880’s sound like in person which mean I’m probably going to buy it at some point but I can’t really get over the value and simplicity of the TYGR’s for the money even if they are $25 more now. The TYGR’s seem to deserve a buy. The only things I dislike is that the cable is routed through the headband instead of to each ear cup and aren’t detachable, and that they’re only available at retail bundled with the FOX mic when you can find it.
You mean the fact that spending so much on just a competitive gaming headphone is a bit absurd and really impractical? Least that’s how I took it which I do tend to agree. MH751 isn’t bad at all granted I prefer a shp9500 pad swapped personally.
Depends on what signature your looking for?
I have one, imaging is I want to say decent, soundstage is large, bass is rather full though I think it was a bit muddy personally. Not at all bad for just like a $30(you can actually get them for $20 as I paid I think it was $18 for mine) just don’t expect a ton of quality out of them. My biggest complaint out of them was definitely comfort as the clamp was hefty and the pads suck pretty bad in my opinion… switch those out and it’s not bad whatsoever granted I wouldn’t go out of my way to say it has any sort of “quality” of sound as say an audeze or something but still quite nice.
I think this would definitely depend on what your looking for. I personally like the CAL more than the retros(unless you consider comfort) but that’s a personal thing for me it’s another one I highly recommend a pad swap too granted I would take the Tygrs or X2HR any day of the weak over those two. He4xx is nice and all but I just wasn’t the biggest fan of it kind of dark without much bass… I felt it was a bit boring for just casual use doesn’t sound bad in my opinoin just rather boring and I sooner picked up a 58x jubilee over it. Tygrs and X2hr are very warm bassy headphones… x2hr has a bit sloppier bass it’s not as tight and can be a bit muddy but its very smooth and surprisingly padded so heavily its very pillowy for comfort though this can, from my experience, cause you to have more heat build up meanwhile tygr builds up more the bass is tightened the imaging is laser accurate as is the soundstage tygr is one of those I would say is good for both styles of gaming more so if you are 1. on a budget and 2. have a treble sensitivity or just aren’t a fan of brighter headphones I would still say the X2HR is a good alternative if you can’t get a Tygr despite the sound being a bit sloppier and not as good in the imaging department however, if you preferred a darker bassier sound that the tyger somewhat has then I would immediately point to the Nighthawk Carbons like I did with @tglodjo who in turn apparently loves the headphone to death. granted the headphone is discontinued and hard as hell to find in some cases.
In that order, it would depend on 1 your sound preference and 2 your budget you feel comfortable with. If you want the better cheap option, I would say probably the retros as they had bigger ear cups than the CAL as CAL over there uses oval ear cups that are the same size as the original hyperx cloud which are rather small, people with big ears like me have issues with it least I do personally even post pad swap it’s annoying so I would take a retro over the CAL.
If you want what I think would be the better sounding of that lineup? X2HR
This is actually what happened to me as I was constantly buying cheap things then got a taste of the more expensive and better items, going into audio I got a taste of good headphones thanks to @RiceGuru who introduced me to the Beyerdynamic DT 990(first real good headphone, first bright headphone, and first beyerdynamic) of which I completely fell in love with, once I resolved the treble problem I had originally.
So, someone newer to audio like that I definitely would say do not write off a 990 or x2hr. x2hr may be a bit sloppier than the tygr but it’s still what I would consider a very solid alternative to the tygrs as they share a signature with each other however, I would call the Tygrs a upgrade in sound quality. 990s on the other hand are a very unique headphone but only for those who can stand that brightness and appreciate it it’s fantastic for orchestra, rap, edm, electronic and other music genres that can really put that brightness and bass to use it’s not so great with vocality like the dt 880 which is the more neutral mid centric headphone.
To me, dt 880 600 ohm is something unique. I haven’t found another headphone truely similar to it. I am not the biggest fan personally as I feel the bass sounds lacking it just doesn’t seem full and sounds rather hollow which bothers me personally and I don’t get that from the Tygr, 1990, T1, or 990. Granted 880s are extremely detailed in their 600 ohms and actually become very revealing where it can pick apart some songs and their errors in creation. I stopped using the DT 880 once I bought the 1990 and especially after I bought the T1 as I feel they both are just in general a straight upgrade in sound quality, I would hope so though considering their price tags.
Tygr on the other hand has a signature similar to quite the many headphones however, most of those headphones don’t have a speaker presentation with that big of a soundstage, that level of detail, alongside such crazy imaging. Beyerdynamic really hit that one out of the park and I hope to see an upgraded variant to the Tygr in the near future.
The only way to find it by itself is through a 3rd party seller, good luck finding that one though so far most people don’t give the tygrs up for sale, or directly from Beyerdynamic through their store which last time I messaged beyer about them they said anytime they get them they quite literally fly off the shelf and back out of stock. You can get them but you definitely need to message them asking for an order though it could take up to a month as they have to make more. However, due to covid things are slow. They are even having trouble keeping the 600 ohm dt 880 in stock right now I can barily find it anywhere currently.
As for the cable? Simple fix. You can mod the original beyers 770/880/990 to be balanced or detachable or you can pay someone else to do it as some people offer that service however you can do that same modification, as the housing is the same way, to the Tygrs.
Edit: For both of you one of the reasons I side with the X2HR despite it sounding so relatively loose and being sloppier than a Tygr is the fact that it’s just generally versatile… You can indeed change the pads however it can be a bit of a pain in some cases unlike the shp9500. You can turn them wireless through a 3.5mm bluetooth dongle, you can use a vmoda boom pro, and you can turn them into a closed back if you want to get into modifications. Granted you can mod the tygr to be 3.5mm gaining the same wireless or v moda compatibility however, it requires much more work to gain this
The price on the X2HR may plummet a bit here soon as X3 is about to land everywhere, it’s already in china
I’m comparing the ATH AD700x and the Beyerdynamic DT 880 right now. What I’m getting from the post is that you would prefer the 880’s because of better imaging and build quality, is that right?
Also could you recommend a Dac/Amp combo which would be strong enough to handle the 880’s with 600 Ohm?
Build quality on ad 700x is a hit or miss it gets a bit better later down their lineup however ad 700x isn’t a slouch either it does well to stand it’s own and here in the USA you can find one for like $70 so if you need a strong contender in the budget and can get past the build quality and comfort than it’s very solid. However, I would definitely take the DT 880 over it due to it’s better imaging, it’s built like a tank, it feels more comfortable, has better sound quality especially in term of detail retrieval, and the soundstage is just as large. The only downside to the dt 880 is that it’s brighter which may cause some people discomfort
Combo unit? Depends on if it’s on the consoles. I would recommend a dedicated unit setup considering price margins. To my knowledge most combo units early on do not have the power to properly drive the 600 ohms until you get over the $200 margin even the Soundblaster g6 struggles and you’ll be running at around 90% of the dial however, the peaks in the highs won’t sound right.
Would recommend picking up a Liquid Spark + Topping D10 as a start dedicated unit as that will put you right at $200 potentially cheaper as you can find them used from time to time for cheaper so potentially around $150 minimum spending for the two units. Spark does a fantastic job.
The ones that start to be able to power the 600 ohms are items like the Schiit Hel however this is at $189 which at this price point generally I would say your better off with dedicated units for the better sound quality unless you really feel you need the mic input. IFI Zen Dac can indeed run at 600 ohms however, it’s single ended input struggles without preamp you will need to balance modify the beyers in order for the zen dac to properly drive the 600 ohms this unit is around $120(granted pricey now due to out of stock issues) and can gain a bit more power by buying it’s seperate power supply which can cost between $50 - $100 less you buy it off someone. Zen Dac is probably one of the strongest in this price category for a combo unit and that much power behind it
Dedicated units will be in the $100 apiece range(so $200 for the setup). Archel + Enog may be a bit more pricey but is very neutral, JDS Labs Atom stack, Schiit Magni-Modi Stack, mixed such as spark and topping. Personally, I think spark benefits the beyers the most as it rolls off the treble more and makes it less of a problem
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First of all thank you for the quick and detailed answer.
I’m from Austria and here they both cost about the same funnily enough (700x:180€; dt 880: 150€), so that’s even more of a reason to go with the dt 880.
As far as I can tell I do not need a mic input, because I picked up a ModMic USB and that way I do not need to run the mic through a dac/amp, right?
I would not have any idea how to go about doing that sweats
These are not perfectly easy to find, but I’ll probably find them sold somewhere if I search hard enough.
I’d still have a really basic question, coming from a layman. What’s the difference between the 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm version and do you think it’s noticable enough for it to be worth it to invest in all that extra equipment for my first HiFi experience?
I know I’d have the Dac and Amp for a long time and could use them for my following headsets, but I’m just wondering.
If you need a little more background knowledge about my audio experience/situation, I made a thread earlier today where I got into that a little and I’d be happy to answer any questions you have.
But please don’t feel obligated to get out of your way to do anything, I am very thankfull for all the stuff you’ve told me already! 
That’s actually kind of crazy but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Beyerdynamic over here tends to be more expensive than it is over in Germany and Europe it seems and AKG price their stuff all over the place.
Nope, do not need a mic port for that. The modmic will suit you just fine.
hmm, for a first hifi experience? Potentially not but I will say they do sound pretty different in a varying degree. The 880s in 250 ohm to my ear actually are less bright than the 600 ohm. 600 ohm had more bass and impact behind the bass it sounds a bit more full while the 250 ohm sounded more hollow(granted they both lack in fullness in this regard it’s just that 600 ohm sounded better here), detail retrieval was definitely better on 600 ohms and vocals had a bit more warmth and clarity to them, highs are potentially the biggest difference to my ear as 600 ohm can appear quite glaringly bright and potentially sibilant(which can lead to discomfort or pain if your at all sensitive) granted neither are as bright as like 90% of the other Beyerdynamic headphones. I think it’s mainly up to you as you can definitely find the 250 ohm for cheaper generally for example over here I have seen a 250 ohm dt 880 get sold for around $125 meanwhile 600 ohm consistently sells at $200 both will work fine but I definitely think the 600 ohm sounds better and, provided you can afford the equipment to drive it, I feel it’s worth the bit of extra cash flow.
If your on a stricter budget though, I see nothing wrong with grabbing the 250 ohm as this way you can pick up one of the amp/dac units and have them powered such as ifi zen dac, schiit fulla 3, soundblaster g6 or x3, among some others
Edit: do keep in mind though if you need it for console gaming, you need the Optical port on the Dac or the combo unit in order to properly connect the console.
Well, when it comes to that particular area of the audio you potentially look at it as a sort of investment. It helps power your equipment. Better equipment of a higher price margin tends to sound even better. The units seem to go in price brackets… $200 seems to be a sweet spot for amps and dacs alike however getting a bette rsound after that price bracket your talking around $500 or more which for gaming? I don’t really see necessary.
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I think I’m tending towards dt 880 250 Ohm with a shiit fulla 3.
It’s a rather affordable combo and I reckon I am going to get to experience sound a lot better than up until now.
I’m just playing on PC, I got away from console some while ago, when I got just tooo frustrated about controlller aim.^^
Thank you, thank you again, Falenkor :))
I just looked up the two guides you linked for reference. And in both the dt 880’s aren’t the stock ones. Zeos has the chrome-edition and envy has the premium edition(which I think is the same one). Do you happen to know if there’s a difference in the sound signature or if it’s just asthetic changes? Because I can recall Zeos ranting about the sharp edges all around the 880’s, so maybe that’s fixed on the chrome-edition is my thinking…
And I looked around for some dac/amps as well. Do you think the FiiO K3 would also be a good choice?
to my knowledge the chrome edition has the same tuning as the regular beyer dt 880 at 250 ohms as does the edition it’s just purely aesthetic. The “Special Edition Black” has a seperate tuning which I don’t recommend.
As for the K3? No, I do not recommend it as it lacks in power for it’s single ended port and mainly has all it’s power in the balanced port of which the beyer would have to be modified to become balanced in order to make good use of it, it’s also a $109 portable amp and around that range I would sooner recommend someone the Fiio E10k or ifi zen dac. FIIO E10K can properly drive the 250 ohms and is one of the cheaper amp/dac units that I have seen people use granted of course your not going to be the -best- quality of sound but it will power it just fine
also you want the “edition” of the dt 880 as any of the “pro” variations of the beyers have a coiled cable instead of your regular straight cables plus editions will come with a case. In some cases instead of “edition” its refered to as “premium”
Edit: The DT 880 Edition (in the 250 Ohm version) and the DT 880 Chrome Special Edition are identical in sound. Both models feature identical transducers. Both headphones also offer the same excellent wearing comfort. from beyer directly confirmed it is the same headphone just aesthetically different with some different materials for build
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I looked into this combo a little today and I found a Liquid Spark + Topping D10 s for 234€, which is as close as I’m going to get I reckon. Will the d10s work the same way as the d10? The way they are describing it it should just be an upgraded version, but after looking at the details I saw the d10s has 20 Ohm output instead of the 100 Ohm on the stock d10. So I’m thinking it’s weaker and can’t run the 600Ohm because of that maybe?
Could you exaggerate the term of “dark sound signature”.
Monoprice retros vs X2HR vs He4xx
I don’t know if there are much different between these can.
Is the retros on par with 4xx,X2?
Topics
//Soundstage, imaging(not focus), mid and treble for rpg games, comfort,bass, music
Note: I just want to feel natural and dived into the world of AC Creed. Don’t sure if a lot of bass will impact the natural sound.
No experience with this but I am pretty sure the D10 is still the superior dac we have a thread talking about that particular subject somewhere on here.
Topping D10 is not an amp it’s a dac it cleans up the signal. Should be fine with the D10.
Hmm, so I went and grabbed my own he-4xx and gave it a listen for the past couple hours. It does have some treble dips in it but no perhaps I was wrong it’s not dark it’s a brighter signature much like the retros with stock pads.
I wouldn’t say it is in terms of sound quality no. It’s still a very solid pick.
I went ahead and gave each one a listen. In terms of soundstage I think the x2hr easily beats the 4xx and the retros as the x2hr is very wide sounding 4xx is a toss up between a bit average in size or slightly large and retro is just slightly above narrow so I would say a bit more average it’s a good size for a closed back. imaging I would say is a toss up x2hr is pretty good but I think 4xx may slightly etch out in front with retros being right behind the 4xx it’s not bad just not the best here. Mid and Treble for rpg typically I would recommend the more warm neutrality from the x2hr for regular rpg games as brighter headphones in my opinion aren’t the greatest they can offer sibilance during npc chats and some of the in game sounds may sound a bit off I will definitely give that to the x2hr for a sense of immersion plus the fact that when you change the pads on the retro, as in my opinion you really should as I personally think the pads kind of suck, the headphone swaps to a V signature with the vocals being recessed He4xx is nice but I think it may be appear a touch too bright as I am sitting here just playing elder scrolls for a bit and the brightness is noticeable. Comfort levels are purely subjective and I would say depends on if you swapped the retros pads in that regard probably the retro would be neck and neck with the x2hr as x2hr has huge pads and very thick padded material though it generates heat meanwhile the retros don’t have a ton of clamp and pad swap makes them very soft and comfortable. Not the biggest fan of he-4xx as they use the hybridized pad and the what I assume they feel is velour just feels grainy or scratch to the side of my head it’s just not very comfortable for me and my ears touch the inside of the pads making it further uncomfortable you also can’t easily change hifiman pads out as they are particular having an inside ring adapter so you have to buy certain pads or it won’t work.
Bass? hmm, I would say He-4xx has a bit of recessed bass on it not very natural and not a lot of impact behind it you can of course equalize this a bit or swap to a full sheepskin pad to bring that up though it will change the sound signature per the norm. Retros have a relatively neutral bass that sounds tight and actually rather natural to me with a good sense of impact behind it when you switch the pad the bass becomes above neutral while recessing the mids changing the headphone into a V signature. X2HR fidelio can appear a little boomy or muddy in it’s bass but personally I think between these or the retros will have the best and most immersive and enjoyable bass response especially for a budget the difference would be the x2hr isn’t as tight on the bass and is a little sloppy.
Music: Depends on the genre and your taste in sound
any of the 3 will be fine. I doubt you only play assassins creed. If you can try them for yourself I would recommend that. I wouldn’t bother listening to people who gush on headphones though, in zeos case I very often disagree with the guy, Retro is nice but in terms of sound quality I wouldn’t say they are -as- good as the headphones you have listed personally I would say the HE-4xx can beat the retro outside of comfort and philips would be in it’s own area of sound in this regard I wouldn’t compare the two especially since the retro is a closed back
Retro would probably be one of the better closed back budget headphones though for competitive gaming I wouldn’t say it’s as great for casual in my opinion until you swap the pads. It’s a very nice headphone though if you just want a quick pick up headphone.
So I have a chance to try some headphones: M40X, ksc 35, Shure 840, grado sr80e
It turned out that I like grado sr80e sound the most so what’s sound signature I liked is called?
That would be more of a Bright signature, despite there being a slight peak in the upper bass / low mids. The bass is pretty recessed on the SR 80e with more forward mids and highs where the mids are rather neutral but the highs are most definitely raised. You will find this similar signature in an AKG k702 and somewhat in the k712 / k7xx as well. The soundstage of the sr80e is rather narrow though so it’s much more intimate sounding and can be rather splashy on it’s treble