Well said buddy! I feel the same when it comes to gear. Stats mean nothing compared to what I hear in real life. Do you like your verum with balanced more than 1/4? I ask since I ordered the e600 amp and the 1/4 has the same power output as the balanced.
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No, no. You miss understood me (I guess i wasn’t very clear). The 788 is most likely a great amp (as most reviews indicate). The issue I had with your comment was “It’s a THX amp, so it’s clean”. This is a false assertion as THX only stands for the technology, not the topology, which is where the differences between this and the 789 or hpa4 comes in. They’re not comparable to this. It’s like getting a ‘amg’ package on your mercadies a-class and then thinking it can out run a GT R . It doesn’t mean anything on its own, as its all dependent on its implementation. The other issue is which is not your fault but is worth addressing, is monoprice’s stuff cant really be bought outside of america because they don’t have third party distributors in those regions, so you end up paying massive shipping and custom fees. Again, if the 788 was “thx clean”, that could be worth the admission. But as I said, I don’t see how given the specs and measurements, its going to be any different than other chifi stuff like a topping dx7 or a Sabaj D5, which are cheaper even in the US. I think you should enjoy what you have as most seem to be in agreement, just don’t think that “THX” means anything more than a brand on its own.
Jury’s still out, I’ll let you know when I’ve sat with it for some more time. |it’s difficult to do a direct evaluation because running them balanced means they’re louder, so I can’t just hot swap.
That’s makes sense, I did hear that too. I think people get there back up so fast is because we are all kinda used to forums that only look at stats and anything that is machine tested and falls short of the numbers people just crap on (I used to be the same) regardless of actually hearing the amps or dacs for themselves. I get what you’re saying though. It just came off negatively. I haven’t actually tested it myself but from what I’ve heard the Sabaj D5 has comparable balanced output power but not even close on the single ended output. I think the Sabaj does look really nice though. He may have gotten a good deal on one of the 788’s, I’ve seen them go for $400 more than once refurbished.
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I gotcha man. Just lemme know. I just don’t want to spend more money on cables if the sound is the same or worse. Keep us posted!
Yeah, I’ve seen the 788s refurb on Monoprice for about that amount, but I’m outside the US so the shipping was crazy. I got a second hand one from a reviewer, which I am very happy with.
So, for what it’s worth what I’m hearing with balanced is a bit more… I’m going to call it “pop”. A slight bump in the treble that makes things pop out more, and a tad more detail. I get a barely noticeable raise in the low end as well. I’m not discerning any changes in the midrange. I feel like there’s a little more soundstage as well, but that might just be the treble keeping things that echo in my attention for longer, rather than actual soundstage.
It’s not a huge difference. I think some people will like what changes and others won’t. Just that touch of brightness.
I ordered the E-600 amp from ebay. It is sold by many Chinese vendors with different op amps. They can be had from 120-140 dollars (I’ve seen them go on sale for under $100) on aliexpress and a bit more on ebay. I bought one from ebay for 180ish dollars shipped with the Muses02 op amp for security just in case something went wrong. I hear that there are a lot of fakes of the Muses02 op amp for sale but I checked these and they seem to be legit. It is a stupid powerful amp for the money and is really clean (I have also heard that it matches or exceeds the jotunheim and destroys it in the clean category for less than half the cost). I don’t have a THX AAA 789 to compare to and I’m sure that that amp is even cleaner, but it pairs incredibly well with the Verum 1 for me with the Modi 3 dac. I hear no noise at all on low gain with nothing playing (unlike the magni 3 which has noise past 3 o’clock). This amp seems to have the same power output on both the XLR and 1/4 outputs (this is what I have been told through other users and not from experience but I do have a balanced cable on the way from Europe to test this) which is great for all of the T60-T50rp users. Coming from the Magni 3 this thing destroys it in every way. There is actually sound stage now, great separation and detail, and the dynamics are astounding. The compression that people said was Schiit’s house sound has never made more sense to me now that I’ve heard this. There seems to be more fullness in the sound and picking out instruments and hearing the clear separation of them is night and day different. I can actually hear back up singers clearly separated from the lead vocalist now as before I didn’t even notice them. Compressed tracks show the biggest improvement in all categories, while well recorded tracks show the biggest improvement in soundstage and separation. This was was my first “big boy amp” and I now understand why people spend more for amps like this. I noticed everything that I mentioned in passive listening. After just a few seconds I had to stop what I was doing and just pay attention to everything that was going on in my music.
This was the first amp that I have used that made me want to go back through all of my music and listen to it again. When I got these headphones I was a bit underwhelmed by them and I thought they were just overhyped descent headphones… until I got the E-600. Now I feel that I’m hearing what everyone else was creaming themselves over. I will say for anyone else that is considering this amp to be aware that you will have very little sound adjustment (for Verum 1’s not on something like a T50). I go from quiet to almost deaf in maybe a 1/6-1/8 of a volume knob turn from minimum volume. These headphones seem to be sensitive as you do hear music playing even with the volume turned all the way down. From talking with users of this amp on another thread of this forum this amp seems to be great for op amp rolling. One user has used over 10 op amps and found that some of the cheaper ones work better with it than say a Burson V5i (how the amp is layed out doesn’t seem to play well with it). I have only used the Muses02 op amp and I have zero desire to change them at the moment (I may wait for the Muses03 op amps to come down in price and give them a shot) because my headphones now actually sound worth/exceed their price. If you already own an expensive, powerful, high quality amp I don’t think you need this amp, but if you have something like a Magni 3 I think it is a definitive upgrade and worth the cost!
Anyone whats the best balanced amplifier with or without dac for verum one now.Due to the 8ohm like not easy to find.
I would say the thx aaa 789, thx 788, jds labs atom, and my personal experience has been great with the e-600 with a modi 3 (balanced dac to follow soon). The topping dx3 pro may be a good dac/amp budget option.
Mine finally arrived today. I have to agree that the THX 788 is a great pairing. Sounds crystal clear.
ADI-2+THX789+Balanced Verum 1 = Awesome.
Only listened for an hour or so through the HA-2 and I hardly ever had to turn the volume to the “2” marking, mostly listening at “1” on low-gain, but boy does it get hot pushing these. I think I’ll always use my 30-ohm series-resistor adapter for this pairing just to be safe. Other than that, no more listening until I break them in good.
Currently using powerdacv2 feed verum with no problem and very nicely pair up.
Hey there…
At a risk of reviving the old thread… and apologies, this will perhaps be a bit long…
I have my Verums since mid-summer and have been listening to them until recently single-ended through a Liquid Spark fed from SMSL SU-8 DAC. Great details, excellent separation and soundstage, but there was no punch to the sound, and more importantly, everything was too bright, too sharp for my taste, and this, I think, limited my listening experience to about one hour per session - after that I really wanted a break each time as fatigue set in. Also, the sound was a bit to clinical for my taste.
At this point I should probably provide some reference. I am new to the whole audiophile thing, and my other system is Loxjie P20, with stock tubes replaced to GE JAN-5670W and stock power supply replaced to a bit more powerful one. I connect my Meze 99 Noir from Drop (stock pads replaced with hybrid ones from BrainWavz to subdue the bass a bit) with a balanced cable, and feed the Loxjie either balanced from SMSL SU-8, or single-ended from my turntable phono pre-amp. Man, do they rock. Granted, there is nothing near the separation or the soundstage of Verum, but they have the punch, the oumgh to them which is really pleasing, be it hip-hop or rock which is playing.
So what I was looking for the Verums is to get rid of the blasted brightness, make the things overall more melodic, and add a bit of punch. Cavalli Liquid Carbon X indeed looked a good match on paper, so I went for it. I have to say that so far I am disappointed with the result. The good thing is the brightness is gone, and the melodic aspect I was looking for is delivered with LCX. Granted, the soundstage is narrower, although I would not call it claustrophobic. Although I would appreciate the Liquid Spark-like soundstage, the way it is now is acceptable to me, it feels somehow intimate. Listening fatigue is gone - on one day I have listened to the music for something like 3 hours and then watched some movies to boot without any discomfort.
What I am still missing is a punch, that energy which makes you rock your head… And, I can’t positively confirm this, it’s just a feeling right now, need to listen to more music, but on some vocal tracks (‘Feeling Good’ by Nina Simone, ‘Back to Black’ by Amy Winehouse) it feels like the vocals could be more prominent, they are sort of overwhelmed by the arrangements, the music proper. Is this a mids problem?
Yes, I am running the whole setup balanced: from SMSL SU-8 to LCX, to Verums. Also, it is worth noting that I have perhaps 20 hours on the LCX so far, so the break-in period is still ongoing.
I don’t know, maybe I just had high expectations… I remember when I replaced the stock tubes and power brick on the Loxjie and had a first listen, I really had that ‘wow’ moment, and ever since I listen to that system a lot. When the LCX arrived and I was unpacking it, I was really looking forward to something like this, but this was not to happen.
So, as I really want to make Verums work, here are my questions:
-
Thoughts on replacing the stock power brick on the LCX? From the original 1.25 A to 1.5 A or even 2 A? Maybe it just needs more juice.
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Which other amp could I try to bring the best in them? Basically get the soundstage, details, separation AND punch. Is this at all possible with a budget of EUR 300-400? I can go used. I’d prefer balanced, but can go single-ended if it will do the job. I am seeing many recommendations in favour of THX amp with Verums, either the Drop or the Monoprice one, but I am also reading that that’s a clinical-sounding, bright amp, something I would really like to avoid.
Update as of today: I started catching recommendations of pairing the Verums with E-600. Risk of getting a faulty unit aside (I have actually tried to revive the discussion in E-600 thread to see if those are perhaps no longer an issue), what is the sound of this pairing like? Will it deliver what I am looking for, or is it more on the THX side?
Perhaps if I get a Liquid Platinum hybrid this will give me the sound I am expecting?
- Or perhaps I should tinker with the cans themselves (researching this option actually brought me to this forum/thread)? I read that replacing metal grills on Thieaudio Phantom with plastic ones expanded the soundstage and added the punch to those headphones, which seams exactly what I need. I could also mess with the damping as suggested in this thread while I’m at it.
Thank you very much in advance.
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Hey buddy, no worries on reviving an old thread. Old headphones to me may be completely new to someone else! I will greet your novel with one of my own ;).
First things first, DO NOT get the E-600 for the Verum 1’s!
The reason I say that is I have one and it does not have enough current to drive bass in the Verum 1’s without distorting (literally thought I broke the drivers!). It is a great cheap amp that sounds good on any other headphones I’ve tried, but non of those headphones are 8 ohms…
The E-600 originally worked great on my pre-order pair, BUT I had to send them in for repair because of driver imbalance. Verum told me directly that the original drivers that I had were 10 and 12 ohm impedance and now were corrected to the 8 ohm spec. After I got them back the same amp was distorting them. That amp does not sound anything like the THX amps. It is not as clean, but has a fun sound that I think you are looking for and is a cheap way to test op amps. Again, only buy one for a different pair of headphones, not the Verum 1’s.
These headphones are misleading as hell, they are NOT easy to drive correctly. Yes they can work on a phone and even some DAP’s, but to really get the most out of them you really need to find an amp that produces enough current. Most people believe that the lower the impedance the easier they are to drive. That is not always so, case-in-point: the T50RP’s/Argons, HE-6, and the Verum 1’s.
The reason you are not “wowed” with how they sound on the Liquid Spark is because that amp does not provide enough current to drive the bass. Which means every time you crank up the volume you are getting more treble and mids, but not getting enough power to push the low-end. I would think the same thing is happening with the LCX, not sure though, I have no clue what the specs are on that amp. I first tried the V 1’s on a Schiit Magni 3 (non + model) and they didn’t make the bass lively until I maxed out the amp before distortion at 3 O’clock, and even then they didn’t blow me away. After doing some research I ended up buying a THX 887 from Monoprice… and HOLY SHIT do these deserve all the praise reviewers were laying on them! I am also using an SU-8 right now and that is a plenty good enough dac.
I’m not sure where you are from, but since you have a budget in pounds instead of dollars I’m guessing Europe? You could try the SMSL variant of THX, or try finding a Topping A90 used which is supposed to be even more powerful and has more soul to the sound than the THX 789, 887, etc. I’m guessing Schiit stuff is out of the question because of import fees and such, but if it’s not the Magnius may be a good cheap option. If you can find any of the THX amps from Drop or Monoprice I think those are the safe options. All of these amps are balanced.
To answer your question, yes the THX is a clinical sounding amp. BUT you may be forgetting something, your SU-8 has sound filters. You can try different ones to warm up the sound a bit just to try it. I actually like the THX 887 paired with the Modi 3 dac over the stock sound of the SU-8. It just sounded more fun. It’s a cheap dac at around 100 dollars and even over in Europe it should be pretty cheap. BUT before trying any other dacs I would try a different amp first. I’m not sure if changing the power supply on the LCX will truly help you or not to be honest. Could you possibly go to an audio store to audition different amps or is that still not a possibility with Covid?
If you want to try something out that is pretty cheap the new Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy has double the power of the old Magni 3. For the sound that you seem to prefer the Magni 3+ is said to be the more fun sounding of the 2. Both of these are only single-ended though.
I want to mention something VERY IMPORTANT. Make sure to check the output impedance of every headphone amplifier that you’re interested in, especially for these. You want to make sure to follow the rule of 8x’s. That goes doubly-so for these since they are so low Ohm. This means that if a headphone is 32 ohms you don’t want an amp that has more than 4 ohms of impedance. Lower is usually encouraged as it will make sure that you get the lowest distortion possible. So basically you want a headphone amplifier with a bare-minimum of 1 ohm output impedance for the Verum 1’s. As I mentioned you can always go lower, the Schiit stuff usually has REALLY low output impedance. If not then your headphones will not sound great and you will hear audible distortion. Some Audio GD amps have a 10 ohm impedance, which would sound terrible on these.
Oh, I almost forgot! What ear pads do you have? That makes a huge difference! First I had the stock pads that came with the version 1, which were completely solid (no holes). The bass was more prevalent and more fun, but the other sounds were not nearly as clean and separated. After I sent my headphones in for maintenance they sent me the angled fenestrated pads for free. These opened up the soundstage and increased instrument separation, but lowered the bass amount and punch. If you have the fenestrated pads try using a solid earpad if you don’t mind losing a little soundstage and separation but gain more bass and fun back into the headphones. You may be able to reach out to them directly and ask to purchase the original closed earpads. If the new fenestrated pads are around $35 the solid ones should be around there.
I hope I was able to help at least in some way. If I missed anything that you wanted to know just message me and I will be glad to help out in any way that I can. Lemme know how everything goes and what amp or solution you chose to go with!
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Oh, I also wanted to add that you don’t not need to tinker with the Verum 1’s to get what other people are talking about. People were tinkering with the Phantoms because the original release of them had a steel grill that was interfering with the magnets on the driver which was slowing the magnet down and making the sound not up to par. I think this problem has been fixed now though.
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Hi,
first of all, thank you for a ‘novel of your own’, and apologies for not replying earlier - holiday season and illness prevented me from doing so.
- Point on E-600 taken;
- I am indeed in Europe, Germany. Thank you for the amp hints, I am actually considering giving THX a try, Monoprice has a EU site, and if I can get one from them (last I checked there was one on offer for EUR 320 something), there will be perhaps even free shipping, no customs duties, and, which is more important, the right for hassle-free return. I just thought that I have this idea in my head that I will not like this sound based on all the descriptions I read, but it’s actually different from hearing it for myself. So that is one option. Schiit also has a EU site, well, it did last I checked around the New Year’s eve, now it seems out of commission. Most positions were out of stock anyway, perhaps they are going through site refurbishment now coupled with re-stocking, if so, that is another options due to shipping, lack of duties and free returns. A90 does seem like the kings knickers, as does a contender, Singxer SA-1, but both of them are a bit out of reach for my budget. Some strange stuff going on A90 front - folks are selling them used for EUR 430-470 !!!
- Indeed, going to a brick-and-mortar store is not an option these days
- Thanks for the hint on the pads, I have the angled perforated ones.
I will conclude with this. I have not been listening to music a lot recently due to poor health, just did not have the drive for it, but when I did, I actually thought that I find the setup as it is quite agreeable… I don’t know, perhaps it’s a psychological thing, perhaps I am just getting used to the sound… sure, the punch is lacking and I can still hear it, but it just does not bother me as much as it used to when I was in my ‘critical’ listening mode, now I am able to just enjoy the music.
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I’m sorry for not seeing this sooner buddy, I’m sorry you are having health troubles! I find that music actually helps when I’m having health problems. You are probably right about it being a psychological thing. It may also be a burn-in effect where the bass opens up (mine did). No rush man, if you’re happy with it stick with it. I forgot an option that may work is the ifi zen dac. Idk if it has enough current to push those headphones, but if it can it would be a nice cheap option. It only has 4.4 pentacon balanced though, no xlr. For around $130 I hear it’s amazing. Good luck with your health, I’m pulling for you!
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Hey, no worries, and thanks for your concern. So, the latest development with LCX is I tried to listen to it (with the Verums of course) on high gain, before I only listened on low gain: I have somehow assumed that high gain will just mean that I don’t have to turn the volume deal so far to get to the level I like. Then the other day I was watching Joshua Valour’s review of SH-9, and at one point he mentioned that he had to find a sweet spot with gain and volume to get the best of the particular headphones he was using at the time. I though, what the hell, let me try it, and what do you know, indeed, as expected, the volume knob had to be turned down a few notches, but apart from that there is now more power in the bass, and I do get the kick I was missing. I can’t pretend to have the most developed critical thinking, as I am relatively new to the whole thing, but I am pretty confident this is not a psychological effect. To make my audiophile experience even more interesting, a fancy (relatively speaking) USB cable arrived from China just the other day, and hooking it up made things just a touch livelier, but this, of course, can be in my head entirely, as I know that such matters are a go-to subject for audiophile holy wars…
In short, I think I will stick with the setup for some time as I am now pretty much enjoying what comes out of my system. I do have my eye on A90, or perhaps even the Singxer, but that’s something to look forward to in the future.
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Hello Everybody,
so I am just about to order Verum 1 and I read this whole topic and I would like to clarify few things.
I am starting with the audio so I would like to stay on budget.
I find in this topic that people are complaining about Verums bass performance with Magni, but from what I was able to understand that was older version of Magni which does not has enough power. With current Magni 3+ or Heresy which has Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.8W RMS per channel I should not have this problem. Is that correct?
What is the actual difference between Magni 3+ and Heresy and which one would you advise for Verums?
If you think that Magni is not enough for Verums will Magnius make a difference over Magni ( I mean 10% or more? )
Thanks for your replies!
Becis