I would say the thx aaa 789, thx 788, jds labs atom, and my personal experience has been great with the e-600 with a modi 3 (balanced dac to follow soon). The topping dx3 pro may be a good dac/amp budget option.
Mine finally arrived today. I have to agree that the THX 788 is a great pairing. Sounds crystal clear.
ADI-2+THX789+Balanced Verum 1 = Awesome.
Only listened for an hour or so through the HA-2 and I hardly ever had to turn the volume to the “2” marking, mostly listening at “1” on low-gain, but boy does it get hot pushing these. I think I’ll always use my 30-ohm series-resistor adapter for this pairing just to be safe. Other than that, no more listening until I break them in good.
Currently using powerdacv2 feed verum with no problem and very nicely pair up.
Hey there…
At a risk of reviving the old thread… and apologies, this will perhaps be a bit long…
I have my Verums since mid-summer and have been listening to them until recently single-ended through a Liquid Spark fed from SMSL SU-8 DAC. Great details, excellent separation and soundstage, but there was no punch to the sound, and more importantly, everything was too bright, too sharp for my taste, and this, I think, limited my listening experience to about one hour per session - after that I really wanted a break each time as fatigue set in. Also, the sound was a bit to clinical for my taste.
At this point I should probably provide some reference. I am new to the whole audiophile thing, and my other system is Loxjie P20, with stock tubes replaced to GE JAN-5670W and stock power supply replaced to a bit more powerful one. I connect my Meze 99 Noir from Drop (stock pads replaced with hybrid ones from BrainWavz to subdue the bass a bit) with a balanced cable, and feed the Loxjie either balanced from SMSL SU-8, or single-ended from my turntable phono pre-amp. Man, do they rock. Granted, there is nothing near the separation or the soundstage of Verum, but they have the punch, the oumgh to them which is really pleasing, be it hip-hop or rock which is playing.
So what I was looking for the Verums is to get rid of the blasted brightness, make the things overall more melodic, and add a bit of punch. Cavalli Liquid Carbon X indeed looked a good match on paper, so I went for it. I have to say that so far I am disappointed with the result. The good thing is the brightness is gone, and the melodic aspect I was looking for is delivered with LCX. Granted, the soundstage is narrower, although I would not call it claustrophobic. Although I would appreciate the Liquid Spark-like soundstage, the way it is now is acceptable to me, it feels somehow intimate. Listening fatigue is gone - on one day I have listened to the music for something like 3 hours and then watched some movies to boot without any discomfort.
What I am still missing is a punch, that energy which makes you rock your head… And, I can’t positively confirm this, it’s just a feeling right now, need to listen to more music, but on some vocal tracks (‘Feeling Good’ by Nina Simone, ‘Back to Black’ by Amy Winehouse) it feels like the vocals could be more prominent, they are sort of overwhelmed by the arrangements, the music proper. Is this a mids problem?
Yes, I am running the whole setup balanced: from SMSL SU-8 to LCX, to Verums. Also, it is worth noting that I have perhaps 20 hours on the LCX so far, so the break-in period is still ongoing.
I don’t know, maybe I just had high expectations… I remember when I replaced the stock tubes and power brick on the Loxjie and had a first listen, I really had that ‘wow’ moment, and ever since I listen to that system a lot. When the LCX arrived and I was unpacking it, I was really looking forward to something like this, but this was not to happen.
So, as I really want to make Verums work, here are my questions:
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Thoughts on replacing the stock power brick on the LCX? From the original 1.25 A to 1.5 A or even 2 A? Maybe it just needs more juice.
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Which other amp could I try to bring the best in them? Basically get the soundstage, details, separation AND punch. Is this at all possible with a budget of EUR 300-400? I can go used. I’d prefer balanced, but can go single-ended if it will do the job. I am seeing many recommendations in favour of THX amp with Verums, either the Drop or the Monoprice one, but I am also reading that that’s a clinical-sounding, bright amp, something I would really like to avoid.
Update as of today: I started catching recommendations of pairing the Verums with E-600. Risk of getting a faulty unit aside (I have actually tried to revive the discussion in E-600 thread to see if those are perhaps no longer an issue), what is the sound of this pairing like? Will it deliver what I am looking for, or is it more on the THX side?
Perhaps if I get a Liquid Platinum hybrid this will give me the sound I am expecting?
- Or perhaps I should tinker with the cans themselves (researching this option actually brought me to this forum/thread)? I read that replacing metal grills on Thieaudio Phantom with plastic ones expanded the soundstage and added the punch to those headphones, which seams exactly what I need. I could also mess with the damping as suggested in this thread while I’m at it.
Thank you very much in advance.
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Hey buddy, no worries on reviving an old thread. Old headphones to me may be completely new to someone else! I will greet your novel with one of my own ;).
First things first, DO NOT get the E-600 for the Verum 1’s!
The reason I say that is I have one and it does not have enough current to drive bass in the Verum 1’s without distorting (literally thought I broke the drivers!). It is a great cheap amp that sounds good on any other headphones I’ve tried, but non of those headphones are 8 ohms…
The E-600 originally worked great on my pre-order pair, BUT I had to send them in for repair because of driver imbalance. Verum told me directly that the original drivers that I had were 10 and 12 ohm impedance and now were corrected to the 8 ohm spec. After I got them back the same amp was distorting them. That amp does not sound anything like the THX amps. It is not as clean, but has a fun sound that I think you are looking for and is a cheap way to test op amps. Again, only buy one for a different pair of headphones, not the Verum 1’s.
These headphones are misleading as hell, they are NOT easy to drive correctly. Yes they can work on a phone and even some DAP’s, but to really get the most out of them you really need to find an amp that produces enough current. Most people believe that the lower the impedance the easier they are to drive. That is not always so, case-in-point: the T50RP’s/Argons, HE-6, and the Verum 1’s.
The reason you are not “wowed” with how they sound on the Liquid Spark is because that amp does not provide enough current to drive the bass. Which means every time you crank up the volume you are getting more treble and mids, but not getting enough power to push the low-end. I would think the same thing is happening with the LCX, not sure though, I have no clue what the specs are on that amp. I first tried the V 1’s on a Schiit Magni 3 (non + model) and they didn’t make the bass lively until I maxed out the amp before distortion at 3 O’clock, and even then they didn’t blow me away. After doing some research I ended up buying a THX 887 from Monoprice… and HOLY SHIT do these deserve all the praise reviewers were laying on them! I am also using an SU-8 right now and that is a plenty good enough dac.
I’m not sure where you are from, but since you have a budget in pounds instead of dollars I’m guessing Europe? You could try the SMSL variant of THX, or try finding a Topping A90 used which is supposed to be even more powerful and has more soul to the sound than the THX 789, 887, etc. I’m guessing Schiit stuff is out of the question because of import fees and such, but if it’s not the Magnius may be a good cheap option. If you can find any of the THX amps from Drop or Monoprice I think those are the safe options. All of these amps are balanced.
To answer your question, yes the THX is a clinical sounding amp. BUT you may be forgetting something, your SU-8 has sound filters. You can try different ones to warm up the sound a bit just to try it. I actually like the THX 887 paired with the Modi 3 dac over the stock sound of the SU-8. It just sounded more fun. It’s a cheap dac at around 100 dollars and even over in Europe it should be pretty cheap. BUT before trying any other dacs I would try a different amp first. I’m not sure if changing the power supply on the LCX will truly help you or not to be honest. Could you possibly go to an audio store to audition different amps or is that still not a possibility with Covid?
If you want to try something out that is pretty cheap the new Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy has double the power of the old Magni 3. For the sound that you seem to prefer the Magni 3+ is said to be the more fun sounding of the 2. Both of these are only single-ended though.
I want to mention something VERY IMPORTANT. Make sure to check the output impedance of every headphone amplifier that you’re interested in, especially for these. You want to make sure to follow the rule of 8x’s. That goes doubly-so for these since they are so low Ohm. This means that if a headphone is 32 ohms you don’t want an amp that has more than 4 ohms of impedance. Lower is usually encouraged as it will make sure that you get the lowest distortion possible. So basically you want a headphone amplifier with a bare-minimum of 1 ohm output impedance for the Verum 1’s. As I mentioned you can always go lower, the Schiit stuff usually has REALLY low output impedance. If not then your headphones will not sound great and you will hear audible distortion. Some Audio GD amps have a 10 ohm impedance, which would sound terrible on these.
Oh, I almost forgot! What ear pads do you have? That makes a huge difference! First I had the stock pads that came with the version 1, which were completely solid (no holes). The bass was more prevalent and more fun, but the other sounds were not nearly as clean and separated. After I sent my headphones in for maintenance they sent me the angled fenestrated pads for free. These opened up the soundstage and increased instrument separation, but lowered the bass amount and punch. If you have the fenestrated pads try using a solid earpad if you don’t mind losing a little soundstage and separation but gain more bass and fun back into the headphones. You may be able to reach out to them directly and ask to purchase the original closed earpads. If the new fenestrated pads are around $35 the solid ones should be around there.
I hope I was able to help at least in some way. If I missed anything that you wanted to know just message me and I will be glad to help out in any way that I can. Lemme know how everything goes and what amp or solution you chose to go with!
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Oh, I also wanted to add that you don’t not need to tinker with the Verum 1’s to get what other people are talking about. People were tinkering with the Phantoms because the original release of them had a steel grill that was interfering with the magnets on the driver which was slowing the magnet down and making the sound not up to par. I think this problem has been fixed now though.
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Hi,
first of all, thank you for a ‘novel of your own’, and apologies for not replying earlier - holiday season and illness prevented me from doing so.
- Point on E-600 taken;
- I am indeed in Europe, Germany. Thank you for the amp hints, I am actually considering giving THX a try, Monoprice has a EU site, and if I can get one from them (last I checked there was one on offer for EUR 320 something), there will be perhaps even free shipping, no customs duties, and, which is more important, the right for hassle-free return. I just thought that I have this idea in my head that I will not like this sound based on all the descriptions I read, but it’s actually different from hearing it for myself. So that is one option. Schiit also has a EU site, well, it did last I checked around the New Year’s eve, now it seems out of commission. Most positions were out of stock anyway, perhaps they are going through site refurbishment now coupled with re-stocking, if so, that is another options due to shipping, lack of duties and free returns. A90 does seem like the kings knickers, as does a contender, Singxer SA-1, but both of them are a bit out of reach for my budget. Some strange stuff going on A90 front - folks are selling them used for EUR 430-470 !!!
- Indeed, going to a brick-and-mortar store is not an option these days
- Thanks for the hint on the pads, I have the angled perforated ones.
I will conclude with this. I have not been listening to music a lot recently due to poor health, just did not have the drive for it, but when I did, I actually thought that I find the setup as it is quite agreeable… I don’t know, perhaps it’s a psychological thing, perhaps I am just getting used to the sound… sure, the punch is lacking and I can still hear it, but it just does not bother me as much as it used to when I was in my ‘critical’ listening mode, now I am able to just enjoy the music.
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I’m sorry for not seeing this sooner buddy, I’m sorry you are having health troubles! I find that music actually helps when I’m having health problems. You are probably right about it being a psychological thing. It may also be a burn-in effect where the bass opens up (mine did). No rush man, if you’re happy with it stick with it. I forgot an option that may work is the ifi zen dac. Idk if it has enough current to push those headphones, but if it can it would be a nice cheap option. It only has 4.4 pentacon balanced though, no xlr. For around $130 I hear it’s amazing. Good luck with your health, I’m pulling for you!
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Hey, no worries, and thanks for your concern. So, the latest development with LCX is I tried to listen to it (with the Verums of course) on high gain, before I only listened on low gain: I have somehow assumed that high gain will just mean that I don’t have to turn the volume deal so far to get to the level I like. Then the other day I was watching Joshua Valour’s review of SH-9, and at one point he mentioned that he had to find a sweet spot with gain and volume to get the best of the particular headphones he was using at the time. I though, what the hell, let me try it, and what do you know, indeed, as expected, the volume knob had to be turned down a few notches, but apart from that there is now more power in the bass, and I do get the kick I was missing. I can’t pretend to have the most developed critical thinking, as I am relatively new to the whole thing, but I am pretty confident this is not a psychological effect. To make my audiophile experience even more interesting, a fancy (relatively speaking) USB cable arrived from China just the other day, and hooking it up made things just a touch livelier, but this, of course, can be in my head entirely, as I know that such matters are a go-to subject for audiophile holy wars…
In short, I think I will stick with the setup for some time as I am now pretty much enjoying what comes out of my system. I do have my eye on A90, or perhaps even the Singxer, but that’s something to look forward to in the future.
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Hello Everybody,
so I am just about to order Verum 1 and I read this whole topic and I would like to clarify few things.
I am starting with the audio so I would like to stay on budget.
I find in this topic that people are complaining about Verums bass performance with Magni, but from what I was able to understand that was older version of Magni which does not has enough power. With current Magni 3+ or Heresy which has Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.8W RMS per channel I should not have this problem. Is that correct?
What is the actual difference between Magni 3+ and Heresy and which one would you advise for Verums?
If you think that Magni is not enough for Verums will Magnius make a difference over Magni ( I mean 10% or more? )
Thanks for your replies!
Becis
Hello Becis! I was one of the earlier people who mentioned the lack of bass performance on the OG Magni 3. The newer 3+ Has more than double the power, HOWEVER, I’m not sure if it has the amount of current that the Verum 1 needs since it is only an 8 ohm headphone. It would definitely be a much better candidate for sure though.
The Magni 3+ and Heresy should have identical power output. The Magni 3+ is a little warmer/more fun while the Heresy is considered to be more clinical (or so I’ve heard). I think if you can up your budget I would recommend going with the Magnius as that amp should last you much much longer before you feel the need to upgrade. It has almost double the power of the 3+ and has balanced options.
I have the original pair of Verum 1’s and they came with solid leather pads which amped up the bass. They now come with angled fenestrated pads that make them sound more refined, less veiled, but MUCh less bass now. If you are getting an amp just for this headphone and have a tight budget either the 3+ or Heresy will be fine. You should hear a bigger difference going from the 3+/Heresy to the Magnius. If it were me I would go for the Magnius just to have that extra headroom and the ability to run many different headphones down the line for years to come. If you could care less about balanced have you consider the new THX AAA One amp from drop at $200? It won’t be as powerful as the Magnius when run balanced (I think the One amp is more powerful single ended) but it should be able to drive the Verums just fine and will be a little cleaner. (I think I would still go for the Magnius as the THX sound can be a little too cold for some people).
I hope I was able to help buddy, lemme know if you have any more questions. I’ll be glad to help!
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Hello,
thanks a lot for your help!
Unfortunately I dont have enough money for Modius + Magnius combo. However I could afford Modi + Magnius. But does it make sense then to go for balanced cable for headphones because Modi does not support balanced option?
Will it be enough power from Magnius with normal cable?
You can still use the balanced headphone output even though you’re using the single ended input. It just won’t benefit from the lower crosstalk and higher input gain of the balanced inputs. You could also save a little and go with the Magni 3+ or spend the same and go single ended only with arguably better performance and do Modi 3+ and Asgard 3.
Thanks for the note regarding Asgard. What will be better from these two options?
Asgard 3 with AK4490 DAC module
Asgard 3 + Modi 3+
I would personally preffer Asgard 3 with AK4490 DAC module to have just one device. Or is there any benefit in audio performance from two devices?
The benefit from separates is that you can upgrade them separately down the line. Also, I believe the internal DAC module for the Asgard limits the voltage, so power is reduced compared to using line in from an external DAC.
Thanks for help MinalanSpellmonger and FiCurious!
at the end I choosed for my Verums Asgard 3 with AK4490 DAC
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I plan on running the Verum 1 with a Schiit Audio Aegir speaker amp connected directly as these phones are an 8 ohm load and were originally developed used speaker amps. I am sure the Pass ACA would work as well.