Actually, I think there’s a pretty good method to estimate conservatively how much power you’re going to get into impedances beyond the manufacturer specifications: for low-impedance headphones you can assume the lowest reported impedance is where the amp reaches its maximum current, and just apply the same current value to impedances below that, and for high-impedance you can assume the limitation is max. voltage, and just apply the same voltage to the even higher impedances you want to estimate for.
So based on Hifi Magazine’s measurement of the HA-2 output as 277 mW into 25 ohms on high gain we can say that since P = I^2 * R, I^2 = 0.277/25 = 0.01108. With this, power into the Verum’s 8 ohms is P = 0.01108 * 8 = 0.08864 W = 88.64 mW, which can drive it to a comfortable 115 dB, i.e. enough to listen to crazy-dynamic classical music at “what is wrong with you” loudness.
For the FiiO BTR3 our job is made much easier by the lowest power spec being at exactly double the Verum’s impedance, i.e. 33 mW into 16 ohms, which allows us to estimate that power into half that impedance will also be halved, so 16.5 mW, based on the max-current hypothesis. This will no longer be adequate for crazy-classical, but it will still reach peaks of 108 dB, which has the vast majority of listeners and musical genres covered just fine.
In an ideal amp the power doubles when impedance halves. But amps are not ideal and don’t behave like that. Kind of behave like that when inside their operating params, but when you go outside their specs you are just guessing. Too many variables to predict how it will behave, I would say it’s better to try or to find someone that can try.
Of course it’s always better to confirm with experiments, but those aren’t always available, nor people to talk to you who have tried. This is where max-current and max-voltage based estimations can give you some good conservative estimates. The only remaining problem is at the low-impedance end, where if you go too far outside an amp’s “comfort zone” you risk heating it up more than it can take, and even damaging it.
I’ve been using my Verum 1’s for 2 months now. A few observations. I also initially thought the bass was lacking, but after several weeks they gradually started to produce more bass. I suspect these are the kind of headphones that need so called “burning in”. I also sometimes find the first minute or so when putting them on the bass is subdued. Not sure if this is just perception or if they need to warm up a little to be their best. The bass is never punchy or emphasised, but it is there, smooth and full and I love the way they sound.
I mostly use a Topping DX3 Pro to drive them. I also sometimes use a Fiio M6 directly and that actually works quite well. I tried my Oppo HA-2 for a short while, but for home use the DX3 has replaced it. Initially I tried using the bass boost on the HA-2, which works well for my Audexe EL-8C’s but once the Verum 1’s started bedding in the bass didn’t sound right with boost on. If I want to listen to emphasised bass I just use my 1more over-ear triples instead.
Hi guys I am also waiting for my verum to come. Currently only have radsone es100 will this fo the job?
Also looking at thx aaa 789 with m300 upgrade in future.
The ES100 should be able to drive them loud enough for any sane listening levels, since it’s a bit more powerful than the BTR3, and that one was already decent according to the numbers. You just might not get “every ounce of performance” out of them with these smaller portable sources, depending on how their current output behaves when pushed to near-maximum over such a low impedance.
In case anyone is wondering, I ended up grabbing the Monolith by Monoprice THX AAA 788. It’s a THX amp, so it’s clean, it’s balanced, it has a built in DAC.Not to say it doesn’t have its flaws, but unless you have specific needs, I think it’s one of the best DAC amps out there for the price. I have it set at -30 dB most of the time with the balanced cable.
It’s a great pairing for the Verum 1s. I feel like I get a lot of transparency from the pair, like I’m sticking my ears into the music itself.
I 100% agree, my V1s took about 30 hours of burning in to sound natural and full.
I don’t think its the headphones themselves that need a minute, I think its that the leather warms up after about a minute and softens. With more playback time I’m finding that they need the ‘warm up’ time less and less as the leather becomes softer.
Its a THX amp by name only. Its topology has nothing to do with THX other products since monoprice couldn’t be bothered to implement it correctly. Just go and look at the measurements for it. Sorry, its simply no better than any of the other $300-$500 chifi dac/amps, its no rme dac.
From pretty much every review I’ve looked at the conclusion has been that the it has a higher noise level but in real life use, especially when you’re under 0dB (I’m at -30dB to push the V1s using balanced XLR) it’s a great amp DAC combo (and the DAC implementation has come up as the cause in some reviews, iirc and the RME has come up as a point of reference — but the RME ADI 2 is twice the price)
Overall, if you had $500 to spend on a DAC amp combo and it was EL stack or this… this IS a THX.
Whatever you think about the implementation and technology, it pairs well with the Verum 1s. A lot of amps I’ve listened to have had problems with distortion, especially in the low end. I’ve needed to keep the volumes at medium to low to avoid that distortion. With the 788, I can only get up to -20dB before feeling I could deafen myself with a lot of songs.
If you have some numbers that make it impossible for you to like a thing — fine, sure. Whatever brings you happiness. But I’m sitting here rocking out to my entire library with some V1s and I’m happy.
If you think that you can change my mind, send me an RME DAC and I’ll do a side by side review. I’ll edit this post and tell everyone what I think. I’m happy to change my mind. But I tried some amps, with some DACs, and I found the others wanting. I bought my 788 knowing that I might just sell it on eBay. I’ve decided not to because it pairs well with the headphones I’ve got to drive.
Well said buddy! I feel the same when it comes to gear. Stats mean nothing compared to what I hear in real life. Do you like your verum with balanced more than 1/4? I ask since I ordered the e600 amp and the 1/4 has the same power output as the balanced.
No, no. You miss understood me (I guess i wasn’t very clear). The 788 is most likely a great amp (as most reviews indicate). The issue I had with your comment was “It’s a THX amp, so it’s clean”. This is a false assertion as THX only stands for the technology, not the topology, which is where the differences between this and the 789 or hpa4 comes in. They’re not comparable to this. It’s like getting a ‘amg’ package on your mercadies a-class and then thinking it can out run a GT R . It doesn’t mean anything on its own, as its all dependent on its implementation. The other issue is which is not your fault but is worth addressing, is monoprice’s stuff cant really be bought outside of america because they don’t have third party distributors in those regions, so you end up paying massive shipping and custom fees. Again, if the 788 was “thx clean”, that could be worth the admission. But as I said, I don’t see how given the specs and measurements, its going to be any different than other chifi stuff like a topping dx7 or a Sabaj D5, which are cheaper even in the US. I think you should enjoy what you have as most seem to be in agreement, just don’t think that “THX” means anything more than a brand on its own.
Jury’s still out, I’ll let you know when I’ve sat with it for some more time. |it’s difficult to do a direct evaluation because running them balanced means they’re louder, so I can’t just hot swap.
That’s makes sense, I did hear that too. I think people get there back up so fast is because we are all kinda used to forums that only look at stats and anything that is machine tested and falls short of the numbers people just crap on (I used to be the same) regardless of actually hearing the amps or dacs for themselves. I get what you’re saying though. It just came off negatively. I haven’t actually tested it myself but from what I’ve heard the Sabaj D5 has comparable balanced output power but not even close on the single ended output. I think the Sabaj does look really nice though. He may have gotten a good deal on one of the 788’s, I’ve seen them go for $400 more than once refurbished.
Yeah, I’ve seen the 788s refurb on Monoprice for about that amount, but I’m outside the US so the shipping was crazy. I got a second hand one from a reviewer, which I am very happy with.
So, for what it’s worth what I’m hearing with balanced is a bit more… I’m going to call it “pop”. A slight bump in the treble that makes things pop out more, and a tad more detail. I get a barely noticeable raise in the low end as well. I’m not discerning any changes in the midrange. I feel like there’s a little more soundstage as well, but that might just be the treble keeping things that echo in my attention for longer, rather than actual soundstage.
It’s not a huge difference. I think some people will like what changes and others won’t. Just that touch of brightness.
I ordered the E-600 amp from ebay. It is sold by many Chinese vendors with different op amps. They can be had from 120-140 dollars (I’ve seen them go on sale for under $100) on aliexpress and a bit more on ebay. I bought one from ebay for 180ish dollars shipped with the Muses02 op amp for security just in case something went wrong. I hear that there are a lot of fakes of the Muses02 op amp for sale but I checked these and they seem to be legit. It is a stupid powerful amp for the money and is really clean (I have also heard that it matches or exceeds the jotunheim and destroys it in the clean category for less than half the cost). I don’t have a THX AAA 789 to compare to and I’m sure that that amp is even cleaner, but it pairs incredibly well with the Verum 1 for me with the Modi 3 dac. I hear no noise at all on low gain with nothing playing (unlike the magni 3 which has noise past 3 o’clock). This amp seems to have the same power output on both the XLR and 1/4 outputs (this is what I have been told through other users and not from experience but I do have a balanced cable on the way from Europe to test this) which is great for all of the T60-T50rp users. Coming from the Magni 3 this thing destroys it in every way. There is actually sound stage now, great separation and detail, and the dynamics are astounding. The compression that people said was Schiit’s house sound has never made more sense to me now that I’ve heard this. There seems to be more fullness in the sound and picking out instruments and hearing the clear separation of them is night and day different. I can actually hear back up singers clearly separated from the lead vocalist now as before I didn’t even notice them. Compressed tracks show the biggest improvement in all categories, while well recorded tracks show the biggest improvement in soundstage and separation. This was was my first “big boy amp” and I now understand why people spend more for amps like this. I noticed everything that I mentioned in passive listening. After just a few seconds I had to stop what I was doing and just pay attention to everything that was going on in my music.
This was the first amp that I have used that made me want to go back through all of my music and listen to it again. When I got these headphones I was a bit underwhelmed by them and I thought they were just overhyped descent headphones… until I got the E-600. Now I feel that I’m hearing what everyone else was creaming themselves over. I will say for anyone else that is considering this amp to be aware that you will have very little sound adjustment (for Verum 1’s not on something like a T50). I go from quiet to almost deaf in maybe a 1/6-1/8 of a volume knob turn from minimum volume. These headphones seem to be sensitive as you do hear music playing even with the volume turned all the way down. From talking with users of this amp on another thread of this forum this amp seems to be great for op amp rolling. One user has used over 10 op amps and found that some of the cheaper ones work better with it than say a Burson V5i (how the amp is layed out doesn’t seem to play well with it). I have only used the Muses02 op amp and I have zero desire to change them at the moment (I may wait for the Muses03 op amps to come down in price and give them a shot) because my headphones now actually sound worth/exceed their price. If you already own an expensive, powerful, high quality amp I don’t think you need this amp, but if you have something like a Magni 3 I think it is a definitive upgrade and worth the cost!
