Who is using aTurntable/Phono Pre Amp?

I can’t really agree with that, personally the 2M Black is far too aggressive for me. I like the 2M Bronce and Quintet Bronce much better without the shibata cut.

I don´t buy any new 180g vinyl either. It’s poorly mixed and just sounds better digitally. Like you said it´s all horrible. When I expand my collection it’s with used albums in excellent condition or a few exceptions from the following labels: Opus 3, MoFi, audioquest, some ECM stuff, some polydor

You are clearly right, without a much better tonearm the G1042 makes little sense.
I suppose you want high mass design again, which makes it a bit more expensive.
The AVID Ingenium PNP has great potential and can be bought without a tonearm. Alternatively a used Technics 1200SL mk4 or mk5 could fit you.

Not all expensive cartidges don’t like bad records and it depends on the cut of the diamond and how well the toneam can handle wavy records without making the cartidge track badly. Dynamic tracking force often helps a lot with wavy records.

Isn’t that what we all want?

The preamp is more than adequate and I would put the money into the turntable. Even with $400 MMs, you’re still in good shape.

The Grado is good at masking the low resolution with warmth and low clarity. Many people like ortofon for clear presentation and with a decent preamp like the magni (Output Impedance: 75 ohms) they rarely get too bright. Many cheap preamplifiers have an input capacitance of 200pF or even higher, you have to add the capacitance of the cable, a cheap cable can reach 180pF or more and you have exceeded (200pF+180pF) the maximum input capacitance of 300pF for a 2M blue, making it sound awfully bright.
Of course they are brighter than Grado or Goldring and therefore more exhausting on bad recordings. In general you can say that a pickup with a higher resolution and less distortion can allow itself to sound brighter without getting harsh. Ortofons only have bass problems on bad record players.

Do not confuse the tracking force with the tracking abilit - possible resolution. I criticized the grado for poor tracking resulting in distortion, especially in the inner grooves, which means that it does not slide along the grooves but jumps back and forth inside it.

Tracking force becomes a serious point of criticism only above 3g. But has nothing to do with the weight of the cartridge itself.

Not every cartidge works with every tonearm mass, that’s true, read this.

I would just keep the uturn orbit and maybe upgrade to a Rega Planar 3 at some point. The P3 is in my opinion one of the turntables with the best price performance at the market. There are a lot of people for whom a P3 is enough, because it offers almost everything a good player needs.

I would suggest the Prestige Blue2 on the Orbit, as price performance is much better than the Red, but don’t expect a massive improvement.
The Blue would also work well on a P3 and if more resulution is needed upgrade to a Goldring 2100 or better.
I also don’t think the a Goldring 2100 iwould be completely out of place on the uturn orbit, especially when a Planar 3 is in sight.

THX
I often advise beginners to use vinyl only for very old recordings that are difficult to get digitally in good quality. Therefore you don’t need an expensive player but one that makes bad recordings sound good.

Get a nice frontend and a decent DAC, because I suspect that’s the primary way you’ll be listening. There are a many nice people with a lot of experience in this kind of segment here in this forum to be found under the corresponding topics. My knowledge is limited to mid-range speakers, traditional amplifiers and record players. I can only advise you to get advice for all things together (DAC, amp, headphones) and not to mix different phylosophies because this is where things often go wrong.

Thanks. Yeah, they look really cool.

1 Like

I currently use a vintage Realistic Lab 400 fitted with a cheap AT-3600 cart, running through an ART USB Phono Plus. I’ve tried using the original Realistic R1000E cartridge (rebranded Shure M91ED), but the tracking has been terrible on anything less than a perfectly mint record, even after alignment and adjusting tracking force and antiskate. I have a decent vinyl collection, and most are used in good-excellent quality, but probably 20% are used in fair or less, acquiring from thrift stores and such.

I did have an Elipson alpha 100 BT with an Ortofon OM10 that tracked everything perfectly, unless something was really rough. I ended up selling it, though, because the auto features of the Lab 400 work better for being able to work without having to get up so often to return the tonearm to keep it from spinning in the runout.

Any suggestions on a reasonably priced upgrade path, or thoughts on current components? Budget <$500 or so. I have a pretty good stable of headphones and amps, and generally prefer a bit warmer tone. I like the TT itself, so I’m mostly looking at good cartridge options that track well with the low(ish) mass stock tonearm or an upgrade to the phono stage.

2 Likes

This is a really nice Japanese player.
Unfortunately there is no reliable information about the effective tonearm mass but I guess it is 9-10g from what I have heard.

About warm pickups:
A Grado would good with compliance (20@10hz) and the low weight, but it would probably hum because of the direct drive.

The Goldring G1006 has a nice sound and better shielding but (10@10hz) compliance is already at the limit with 11g Rega arms (even though I personally think that the actual compliance is a higher).

The heavier Goldring 2100 or 2200 (16@10hz) would be my recommendation.

However, increasing the weight of a tonearm is rarely a problem, only making it lighter will be difficult. The original headshell looks like about 6g to me (measurement would be helpful) and could easily be replaced by a 9g Ortofon one.

In addition a Pro-Ject PhonoBox S2 or Schit mani would make sense.

Generaly the sound would be improved by new chinch cables, new headshell cables and new slipmat.

1 Like

why would you need a DAC for a turntable, its already analog

also i only thought of the red3 instead of the blue because the better than the others thing…

and my previous idea for an upgrade turntable was a mofi studiodeck, though who knows maybe a rega would work better for me

Sorry for the confusion it was not well phrased. I just wanted to advise you to adapt the analog chain to a good DAC first, as I suspected it would be the most used source. After that you will be able to better judge how to proceed with the record player.

The studiodeck is an uncomplicated all-inclusive package with a good price-performance ratio.
However, a Rega would offer more upgrade and tuning possibilities if you enjoy tinkering around.

the thing is i am NOT a fan of tuning things… im am an OOB person

Unfortunately every turntable needs a more or less extensive setup, OOB is not really possible. Maybe there is a good local record player shop that can set up everything for you.

i wish there was… i mostly meant no modifications and upgrading beyond cartridge

okay… I have to ask… what is an OOB person :smile:

2 Likes

Out of the Box

1 Like

Picked up a Pro-ject Phono Box DS2 USB on a great discount…now to figure out the cartridge.

When you mention chinch cables, do you mean the RCAs? Headshell cables on the AT-3600 probably aren’t the best, but they’re pretty new, and probably not worth upgrading prior to a new cartridge (which I’ll likely get a new headshell for anyway. Slipmat’s in surprisingly good shape, considering its age.

1 Like

Congratulations! That’s a good preamp.

Exactly, new cables can be soldered very easily to the circuit board under the tonearm. The tonearm cable itself would be a bit more complex but not impossible. For a lower output cart at least the RCA cable would have to be improved.

This would definitely help to make the turntable compatible with the compliance of modern cartridges.

How much budget is left for a new Cart and what are the prices for Goldring Eroica HX and LX in your country? When I know the budget, I look again what exactly goes well with your preferences, the preamplifier and tonearm.

The Slipmat plays a relatively large role in damping resonances in turntables and vinyl. Especially hardened mats lack this property. In my experience it is appropriate to spend up to 70$ at for e.g. an achromat. But this should wait until the new cartridge has been bought, because with varying thickness the VAT (tonearm height) can be optimized.

All my other turntables have had slipmats… the AT-LP7 does not. The Platter is 20mm polyoxymethylene and the intention is to place directly onto the platter… I know other turntables have that design too… what are your thoughts on that?

1 Like

I am a big fan of Michell Engineering turntables, which are also designed without slipmats. But with platters made of glass or metal I would always use a Slipmat.

Edit.: Although… the Raven AC from TW ACUSTIC has a 10kg copper platter and should definitely be used without a slipmat. But with lighter metal platters the resonances are far too high. Just do the same thing the developers did from the factory.

1 Like

Was thinking somewhere in the $200 range for the cartridge, with a little flexibility. Looks like the Goldrings you mention run around $500-$800 new or $300-$600 used for the Gx, Lx, or H.

1 Like

to make a meme

what cables do you use

monoprice cables to me are way too stiff which makes the super short runs im doing from my preamp to headphone amp impossible. i heard good things about blue jeans cables

and of course there is audioquest

1 Like

The Goldring 2200 would be my recommendation with a very light headshell of max 8g. The 2100 is also not bad but the 2200 is much better.
The high output power will also reduce noise from the direct drive, old cables and poor insulation. It really likes light tonearms and tracks very well on the inner grooves.
I only see a problem with the relatively high minimal possbile input capacity of 100pF in your preamp and the high capacity of old wires. The 2200 doesn’t like capacitance over 200pF at all.

With a 1006 I slightly move away from the original design of the light tonearm and use a 9g headshell. It is less sensitive to high capacity. It would also be upgradeable to a 1046 in the future.

I’ll be looking at alternatives again over the next few days.

I use MC, because the capacity problems of MM and MI with different tonearm cables always drive me crazy.
Otherwise I use Goldkabel Ouverture RCAs outside of Phono applications

sorry if i confused if you… i meant interconnects. but you answered them… besides that you told me that you use a moving coil cartridge it seems

1 Like

do you think the liquid spark or the magni 3+ would be a better fit for my Grado and 58X combo?

Wait, I’ll summon a qualified person. @M0N
An amp with no high frequency elevation, silky smoothness and plenty of gain would probably be best for vinyl.