Impressive work!
I was thinking about a dedicated room for music and movies. Your project is awesome and gives me some clues. As I am a bit newbie in audio process, I wonder if you can share the complete wiring of your project. It would be very helpful.
Cheers and kudos for this.
Hello! Quite impressive work you have done to open up possibilities for Dolby Atmos to consumers. But I think its possible to do it cheaper by skipping the amplifier, and using “half” powered speakers as Presonus Eris E3.5 (https://www.amazon.com/PreSonus-Eris-E3-5-Professional-Multimedia/dp/B075QVMBT9). Each pair is $99, totalling around $500 for 12 speakers. The same DACs and software can be used. Only an active subwoofer is needed, witch can be bought cheap.
Only problem would be weight for the cealing mounted speakers. But here the passive side of the pairs can be used.
Of couse this is not the same fidelity as a setup using an amplifier, but if budget is a priority here, all speakers and amplifiers (without subwoofer) can be obtained for $500.
Another option for mixing is ambisonics, which allows you to mapp whatever speakers in any configuration for immersive audio. It is not compatible with dolby atmos, but it is compatible with every other ambisonics setups configuration. IEM pluin suite: https://plugins.iem.at/ Ambisonics introduction video with IEM pluin suite: Ambisonics spatial audio with Reaper and IEM - YouTube
For anyone wanting to do a 5.1.2 setup the Topping DM7 might be the best choice for the price.
If you need 12 channels and don’t mind using software volume the MOTU UL mk5 is another great option. Hardware volume only on 10 analog channels
Hi,
For the authors project, I do not belive the routing is hard. Its pretty much 1 to 1 wiring from DAC>AMP>SPEAKERS. Only obstacles would be routing of several DACs out of the computer. But loopback handels it quite well.
Hi guys!
Thanks for your effort DMS! You did a really great job explaining how to set this up.
But honestly, guys, DMS showed us just his approach to do this so don’t just focus on counting the pennies if you can make anything cheaper comparing to some off the shelf solutions. Probably all of us probably have some gear laying around here ant there, that can be used to build a similar system, so depending on one’s resources there’s a chance to cut the price significantly.
Yes, 12 ch amp is pricey, but what about your old 4ch amp? Maybe 6 stereo amp are too chunky for most, but getting just three sound reasonable.
Going active makes a lot of sense as well, and i believe it benefits sonically comparing to basic passive speakers.
I didn’t quite get how DMS tuned 12ch using 5 DSP or i missed something.
I highly recommend reading Dolby resources, and there’s a lot of useful info ang guides there. Here you got some: https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/Music-Room-Calibration-FAQs?language=en_US
On thing that wasn’t covered here is the bass management. It you’re planning to use some full range speakers it’s fine as is, but using those small Daytons (exceptional for their price!) that shouldn’t be considered a full range (specified response from 85Hz). Frequencies that couldn’t be reproduced by those speakers should be redirected to a subwoofer. This cannot be done easily using recommended MiniDSP setup. Either you end up with a big DSP (and sourcing some old but pro may not be that crazy) or using external mixer to sum up the bass response from of all channels using Mini DSP’s outputs 3 & 4.
Anyway this should be addressed somehow 
Maybe spending more to create a neater solution sounds reasonable but where’s the fun part then? 
Best!
Doing a full 7.1.4 EQ calibration with regards to frequency, magnitude and phase is a nightmare IMHO.
I’d spend the money on Dirac Live multichannel
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all depends on if your ok with going super cheap or not.
Could you all check my thought process on my idea?
Plan to use my windows PC for movies and television and games, mostly netflix/disney/hbomax, etc. Some searching shows netflix and disney support “atmos” but I’m not clear on what that actually means. I know it isn’t the same as from a blu-ray. Would it allow outputing a 7.1.4 set of signals?
I just lost my old receiver with ancient 5.1 system, but not looking to spend $3000-5000 to get up-to-date on sound. Want to reuse various speakers I have collected over the years. I can reuse my sub.
I was looking at the minidsp 2x4 and it is out of stock, and the minidsp 2x4 hd is $250-300. What are the alternatives that would still allow aggregation to work?
I see ASIO4all is the windows program to do aggregation, but haven’t seen anyone use it for 7.1.4 atmos.
Parts express has lots of boards using class D amplifier chips like tda7498e or tda8954th. I happen to have a large lifepo4 battery at 24v in my house, and was thinking I could skip the costly AC to DC power supplies and just hook it straight up to the 24v battery (I assume similar to car audio, but I don’t have direct experience).
Just like the OP, I’m a little leary of the software side for windows.
exactly this. Imagine the time spent time aligning all of the speakers and EQing them with REW, plus trying to figure out how to create a LFE downmix of all channels.
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So I was wondering if this was possible back before I bought my JBL SPD-55 Pre/Pro for my home theater, but I wanted to do it because I could get better performance out of say 8x Topping E30 DACs. AVRs and Pre/Pros can’t even touch $100 desktop DACs in performance, so why not use multiple of those? As we can see there’s a lot more to it. I’m glad it’s possible, but there’s a lot of manual work that makes this a no-go for most people, and I want to make sure they’re aware:
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The Loopback software is cakewalk compared to having to time align and EQ each speaker with REW, then applying those settings to the MiniDSPs. We’re talking hours of work. Then you’re going to have to figure out how to run a split of all channel’s to a bus that can then be used as an LFE crossover channel, that then also gets fed into the main .1 LFE channel for the sub(s). This is would be like running your speakers as “Small” aka not full range, which you should do but that’s another topic. For audiophiles they could really fine tune their system this way, but most people want “good enough” and don’t even want to touch REW (although it’s pretty easy to use). This can all be done MUCH faster by using an AVR’s room calibration like Audyssey MultEQ XT32 or Dirac. On top of that, you’ve only calibrated at the Main Listening Position, you haven’t done any spatial calculations, you have to do those by hand, and by telling the software where the speaker is sitting in space. An AVR does this by taking multiple measurements in all 3 Dimensions.
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This will only be usable on a PC. For home theater it gets more complicated. If you want to use a separate device for Movies, Music, Gaming, then you’d have to have a capture card in your pc and deal with added latency, and potential HDMI issues with VRR, Resolution and Refresh Rate switching, and potentially not getting the original video quality. If you have multiple devices you’ll also most likely want an HDMI Selector.
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I don’t remember you mentioning any upmixing DSP. So Dolby Surround Upmixer, DTS Neural:X, Auro3D, etc won’t be an option. This would really stink for when you want to upmix a Stereo or 5.1 track/movie to 7.1.4 or higher. Applying a global EQ would have to be manually done on each channel as well, where as an AVR has a simple Bass/Treble option. This applies to creating a “room curve” as well. Audyssey/Dirac have simple ways to apply a room curve via an app.
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“Auto Lip Sync Correction” aka Speaker/TV alignment would need to be done manually as well on each channel, instead of using HDMI’s automatic function.
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The DAC you picked is most likely performs much worse than most AVRs DACs, I know this doesn’t matter as much for your super budget build, but it becomes a consideration when comparing to an AVR.
EDIT: 6. I forgot to mention that certain platforms won’t be able to auto recognize or support Atmos with this setup. Apple Music doesn’t support “Spatial” aka Atmos on PC from my experience. You need a device/app that will register that you have Atmos and allow you to unlock it for playback. Even if you have your pc hooked up to a TV like the LG C2 that does support Spatial Apple Music playback, I don’t think you’ll have eARC capability with your GPU/PC.
NOTES
- The Arcam unit you showed is actually a higher end unit, not a “cheapest” option, so $2000 being the “cheapest” isn’t actually true.
- You didn’t include the price of cables. You can get cheap ones, but it does increase the total cost of the build, while an AVR won’t need all those cables.
- You didn’t include a sub, which is a must, especially with using the small and cheap B452-AIRs.
I’ll give an alternative option for those who are curious.
You can get a Denon X3700H for $1200 right off Denon’s website (also check Accessories4Less). You add a stereo amp like the Emotiva BasX A2 for $500 for Left/Right, or a cheaper amp for Rear Heights if you like. You’d have a solid 7.1.4 setup to add speakers to. The Denon X3700H only allows Pre-outs for L/R or Rear Heights when adding a stereo amp, so I went the cheaper route and picked a lower wattage amp for the Rear Heights. The AVR will output much more power to the L/R than this little amp can, so it would be smarter to keep the L/R on the AVR. I matched your 100ft of good wire, but I think most setups will require more than 100ft. Using this AVR setup his would give a Plug-n-Play experience, with more features.
Cost including tax/shipping to IL:
$1,299.12 Denon X3700H from Denon.com
$369.65 Total from Parts-Express.com
- $254.88 - 6x Pairs of Dayton Audio B452-AIR.
- $ 67.99 - FX Audio FX-502SPRO HiFi Amplifier 80 WPC
- $ 18.29 - RCA AH16100SR 16 AWG Speaker Wire Spool 100 ft.
$??? Speaker Stands
TOTAL: $1,668.77 + Stands That puts me around how much you spent I believe.
I’d also highly suggest a Sub or two. Based off Erin’s measurements (linked below) and current pricing, I’d go with the Jamo C912 for $230.
Total + Sub = $1,916.89
Extra info:
Denon X3700H Measurements: Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Budget 12-inch Subwoofer Shootout: Budget 12-inch Subwoofer Shootout. Infinity, Klipsch, Dayton, Jamo, OSD & Bic! - YouTube
AVR: https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/avr-x3700h?gclid=Cj0KCQiAwJWdBhCYARIsAJc4idB24ihdqMcwi_ba6c0jWzPm20SVVtXSkAGsZEJj9rPNLwAZtzz9bOsaAnK0EALw_wcB
Speakers: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-B452-AIR-4-1-2-2-Way-Bookshelf-Speaker-Pair-with-AMT-Tweeter-300-451?quantity=1
Amp: https://www.parts-express.com/FX-Audio-FX-502SPRO-HiFi-Amplifier-80-WPC-Silver-230-282?quantity=1
Wire: https://www.parts-express.com/RCA-AH16100SR-16-AWG-Speaker-Wire-Spool-100-ft.-100-138?quantity=1
Sub: https://a.co/d/j9wK5SH
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This.
The miniDSP and PC based setup is just way too cluttered and not flexible at all.
As far as I know you cannot playback anything via this setup that’s not on Apple Music or Apple TV.
For trying out a small surround setup this might be fine if you already have DACs around.
You just need a proper surround receiver fir Dolby Atmos and the Denon you mentioned is an excellent choice (and actually measures really good for a receiver)
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Ah yes I forgot about that. Hope you don’t mind I updated my post to include that because I was trying to make an all encompassing post for people, but it was 3am already lol.
I believe it’s an issue for Windows and Linux users. Apple’s website only mentions MacOS for how to enable it in iTunes. I also kinda forgot to explicitly mention room curves. You can download the apps and apply a room curve, but on the MiniDSPs you’d have to apply it to each channel.
A lot of you aren’t getting the point here.
This guide is a blueprint for ENTHUSIASTS! Cheap bastard enthusiasts especially. Being able to skirt the ridiculous prices on Atmos receivers, when you have half the gear laying around already. That’s right up my alley, mainly because I’m a cheap bastard.
To get the cost wayyyy down. Buy cheap pairs of powered monitors. Presonus sets for 100$ I saw someone mention. Mini DSPs aren’t necessary IMO. Find your dacs, and boom you’re done.
Can you/anyone please point to a resource on how to tune using room EQ wizard… I cant make sense of what you mean when its said:
- "spent time aligning all of the speakers?? and EQing them with REW?? ( what you mean by aligning, physical allignment, how to do measure the allignment needed)
- plus trying to figure out how to create a LFE downmix of all channels. ( didnt understood this at all)
Information for the 1 and 2
Thanks, I tried today to setup 7.1.4 but with multiple bluetooth speakers connected to macbook in place of using an 12 channel dac as its not available in budget at my place. Speakers worked but i got inconsistency in delay among various speakers, with max delay between wired and bluetooth ones.
I wonder is there a way to control the delay of bluetooth speakers or bring all them in sycn, After effects in audio midi in mac didnt help.
There is always a added or extra delay in Bluetooth speakers vs wired.
Signal is coded to be sent (most likely from analog to digital format) or just digital from Sending unit.
Actual sending phase.
Receiving unit then takes the signal and chances it back from digital → analog format until sound actually comes out of the speaker.
Plus there is always a possibility of interference and even more delay from other devices working on same 2.4Ghz range.
All the “work” varies how long it takes from Send → Receive → Sound depending of units but its pretty much impossible to tell “how long” it actually takes.
It could be 70ms then again it could be 130ms.
Bluetooth speakers systems with surround or multiple speakers usually have a “master” unit.
That handles the sending, so the delay is similar with all the speakers = sound comes out in correct time if no other interference’s.
There most likely is delay if using wired speakers as well with split signal. Wired always being the faster side so audio comes out first.
Changes that happen constantly in the Wireless side is the issue with delays and probably is not possible fix fully??
Specially if you pay close attention how the sound comes and when.
There might be some software available that handles the delays per unit but have not tested or done more research. Like this might be one.
https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Configuration%20reference/#delay-since-version-09
Dont if there is similar to Apple thats available.
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This is great
Thanks this help.