đŸ”¶ 7HZ Timeless Planar

So ive been listening 7hz Timeless for couple of days, connected to Fiio BTR3K Balanced and Shanling UP2 (LDAC 990 44/16). While the power output of those might not satisfy everyone, i can say it gets plenty loud for me, my threshold for very loud is around 72db. With fiio been running it 20-28 notches out of 32 depending on level of the song, so there is still some spare for power peaks. On shanling i cant tell exactly as it has 64 levels and no indication, but there is also spare left.

So is Timeless a detailed iem? Yes, indeed it is. In the process of listening to what not from my library, i did a quite a few tone sweeps to make sure the IEMs arent at fault :slight_smile: but its actually the planars catching few scratchy sounds and mastering inherent clipping that was in some tracks that i didnt notice previously.

Bass is plenty and more than i expected, clean, rumble is there, but some songs can sound bit veiled to my ears. Reducing 1-2 db at 250Hz with GEQ helps the situation for those tracks. That 2hz peak can be bit harsh on certain tracks, especially with female vocals and some instruments that are on the higher registers(like high brass/violin notes or similar).
Using the soft silicone tips that came on the set, as they do fit pretty nice and are sticky so dont fall off the ear. Could be possible not touching the EQ at all but alleviating this with some tip rolling, havent gotten much into this.

As for the sounstage , i find whats already been said mostly true, and was kind of bummed out as i read those comments just few hours before receiving my unit. After listening it i found said stuff to be mostly true, but after receiving it i realized its in no way a dealbreaker or reducing my enjoyment with the set. Worth noting though, is that in the process of evaluating there were some songs that made me think my bluetooth receiver disconnected and sound was comming from the speakers in front of me. So it seems theyre capable of depth, just depends on how the song was recorded i suppose. Ex. athmospheric/reverb acoustic guitar ones are there. One of those songs with depth was David Munyon - Looking at the Rain.

So bit conflicting with what others said, but this is how i understand soundstage and imaging
 There is a blob that is the soundstage and it can have depth(projected at distance from you)/heigt/width, and then within that blob is the imaging that gives you cues where instruments are. Someone correct me if im wrong

So with this being said, the 7Hz can have depth in the soundstage(projecting it infront of you and giving you the feeling that sound is comming from speakers), can be felt with that song i mentioned above, and i can hear it in this test pretty clear. Im getting the impression that the sound is comming from my speakers which are about 5 feet in front of me while dong the test.

So depth for the soundstage is there, just within that soundstage theyre not doing pretty good job of giving you the depth position of the instruments(like hints that singer/gutars are in front, drums in back).
Important thing to remember is that soundstage is also a brain thing, what your eyes see your brain will expect and your ears will hear. Since music is sort of an esoteric thing, expectations, mood, blood pressure in your pumpkin will have effect on how you interpret music also. Sometimes some song can sound harsh to you while other times it wont. Same with soundstage.
Ive had times when i was under an impression that iems lost soundstage which was previously there, to have it back at a different point. Im middleaged, so age might have to do something with it, idk, but these observations stand true in my case.

Someone mentioned that they wouldnt be good for watching movies, forgive me for not remembering who it was, but i have bit different oppinion on that subject. Deem them good for the purpose though not without some added help from sound processing. Namely Convolver with following impulses - Dolby Headphone Cinema/Room/Studio and HXR Theater Pro, give pretty good results for my taste, with depth being present and giving impression that youre hearing things comming from your speakers.

The Doors - Riders on the Storm, is imo pretty good demonstration of planar vs BA difference. My first planar set, so it was intersting to hear some pretty stark difference in this example. The second overdubbed track of Jims vocal where he whispers the lyrics sound just in place, smoother and much more coherent with first vocal track, while with BA its raspier/ghostlier and separated. I find do prefer the way planar sounds over BA.

All in all pretty satisfied, though its not without some gripes. Like missing nozzle tuning foam in the package. Ive seen them in some unboxing video, and then there was another unboxing that also didnt have them. Mine already have foam in the nozzle. So did anyone that got them with the foam in the baggy with the spare grills already has the foam in the nozzle? Or those that got the foam dont have it installed, and was left as option to the user?
There were some scratches on the metalic case i got. Same issues were present on the one unboxing available on youtube of the set, the guy had some dings on the iems too which couldnt be from the shipping due to the light weight, and them fitting pretty tightly in the case with the cable.
My case also had some pretty sloppy glue application and streaks of it near the hinge. Material inside is soft enoug and will do the job for protecting the iems, but its pretty thin and will wear out quickly if used frequently imo, also pretty cheap looking. They could have done a better job there.
While not big problem in the larger picture, still brings up some concerns regardind QC, that might or might not affect the iem itself after period of usage. Not the most expensive product, but not cheap either, and for the price i would expect bit more care taken. 7Hz has some space to grow in that area.

Oh, and almost forgot
 First IEM with MMCX(been avoiding it successfuly so far), and i hate it from the bottom of my soul. And its not that its too stiff, it just doesnt inspire confidence in me, every time i unplug/plug im expecting something to break :slight_smile: as compared to 2 pin still much greater force is needed, 2 pin is so muuuch better imo. But maybe ill grow into trusting it, or even liking it, who knows. One of the mmcx connectors on the iem is bit looser on my set.

Havent used the stock cable at all, but switched straight away to, so cant comment on it.

Fit might be a problem for people with small ears, as with my medium ones, the shell touches the inner back part of the ear(is it ear labia?) and causes some pain after long wearing(5+ hours). Imo nicely rounding the edges would have been a much better choice instead of going with the slightly chamfered edges.
Though its not a problem wearing them for 3-4 hours for me, and this is with the small tips that came on the set, so they go in pretty deep. Putting on tips that would make it sit differently/more shallow could potentially eliminate that issue entirely.

With all said, would have i bought them knowing beforehand all the cons i mentioned
 Yes.

Dont consider this a review in no shape or form, but just few observations that jumped in my face in the short period i had them. Im still high on my iem fix :), so best for few weeks to pass for potentially revised or unchanged oppinions and conclusions.

Pretty short post, EH? :slight_smile:

19 Likes

Best review in balance so far
and by a cash paying owner.
Bravo dude. :raised_hands:

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Due to polarity of opinions, I’m on a market to buy a set I don’t need lol


Do we know anything about the stock on these? Are they coming back?

@hawaiibadboy do you know if Linsoul will have new batches?

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After some consideration I think I’ll hold on to these. At the price they are fantastic.

Not all music requires an expansive soundstage and to be honest the somewhat limited soundstage depth doesn’t show itself most of the time. The overall tonality here outweighs soundstage IMO, it’s bang on to my taste.

One flaw, my left MMCX connector is slightly looser than the right. It’s not the cable. QC could be better, and will hopefully improve.

The cable is lovely, perhaps a touch microphonic compared to fully braided ones but not noticeable generally.

Hopefully this will sell like hotcakes and give 7Hz a boost in capital and a sense of direction in regards to tuning etc to allow them to go forward making more diamonds!

I’m on EU - Portugal

@Godria , the forum godess, hooked me up with an express shipping seller. She’s a real one. Thank you once again!!!

4 Likes

OK we’re still getting flags and DM’s about this ‘OFFICIAL’ thread going off topic
so again any posts that deviate from or are not relevant to the Timeless will be deleted and the poster warned.

Thank you for understanding

:beers:

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7Hz Timeless - Planar done right! - YouTube

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maybe this will show

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Oh wow. I just used my Timeless to listen to some movie sound tracks
 Just amazing. I didn’t expect it.

Please do give it a go. Feels like I’m in the cinema!

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Aye-up just got a Linsoul/Amazon uk update
seems my Timeless will be arriving on Monday prob’s won’t be able to pick them up till Thursday but way quicker than the expected arrival date which was 15 Oct-1 Nov
happy days :+1:

7 Likes

Worth the wait but always nice when they come sooner!

Hopefully no issues with yours. My left MMCX is a touch loose and had excess glue on the hinge area of my box but nothing serious. Grille’s seem okay but might put a spot of glue on them.

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For sure :smiley: but I really don’t mind waiting I don’t know way folks get so stressed by it?..a good set is for life so a few weeks wait is chump change :man_shrugging:

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Timeless Impressions

NOTE: My second unit for my timeless is behaving different than my first. I have not figured out all the differences yet. I will likely put fresh evaluation in another comment.

This is my first impressions post on this forum. It will be fairly long as I will include some history to make my perspective on these IEMs make more sense. I have commented about much of this in the thread already. This is an organization of those thoughts into one consolidated super wall of text with history and more comparison.

TLDR Section at the end for those averse to verbosity.

About Me

I don’t consider myself a reviewer. I don’t even consider myself an audiophile. I am an enthusiast. I am looking for the best sound I can get within practical and monetary limits. I have my own preferences and I try to call out when I know my feedback is more about preference than quality.

What have I heard?

For IEMS: Dunu Zen, Blessing 2 Dusk, Audeze Euclid and, of course, the 7Hertz Timeless.

For OverEar Partial List: Arya, He6se, Lcd-X, Lcd-XC, Drop Ether Cx, Quad ERA-1, Ananda, Sundara, Ath-R70x, Ath-wp900, Drop 177x Go, and the crown king LSA HP-2 Ultra

Note: Agree or not, I compare IEMs with Over Ears. My goal is best overall experience. That has jumped back and forth between IEMs and Headphones as I have heard more options closer to my preferences.

I am constantly learning more about what I like. I try to call that out and say why. The timeless was particularly effective at teaching me more about my own preferences.

Why Timeless?

I saw the BGGAR comparison review and have been wanting a planar back in my life. All I possess right now is hp2, zen, dusk and now Timeless. I just tried the Ananda and found it to be a poor compliment to my hp2. But I still wanted a planar.

Enter Timeless, a planar IEM that is supposedly tuned better than all planar IEMs that came before. I was sold nearly instantly at this price point.

What do I listen to?

A fairly wide range of genres from Ani DiFranco to Metallica. Show tunes to Billie Eilish (I renamed my hp2 Bille after her. Yeah, I am that guy. Deal with it.) Pentatonix is a favorite any time listen for me. I have been getting into ZZ Ward which someone just introduced to me. Massive Attack is another long lived favorite. Apocalyptica. A wide range of rock and pop from the 80’s onward. Can you say Madonna? All this means I tend to appreciate headphones that can function as a generalist.

What am I using to evaluate?

Qudelix 5k on all headphones. Dunu Blanche cable. cp100 plus tips. Timeless, Zen (mmcx on left unit died during this comparison ), hp2.

Apple Lossless from iPhone or MacBook Pro. Wired to Qudelix for critical listening, but all day listening is at least 50% Bluetooth from the iPhone. I have Amazon HD to confirm some specific things as well.

Indirectly, I have comments about these compared to things I have heard in the past listed above. I do not have them for direct comparisons, but I remember how those past headphones made me feel about the sound. So when not one of these in my possession, I am using a form of audio memory. And sometimes referencing past impressions.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room: Soundstage

I don’t typically spend a lot of time on this. But since it is the hottest discussion around the Timeless, I want to address it first.

Let me first say, I have yet to hear soundstage that enhances my enjoyment of a headphone or IEM. So much so, that the arya was rather unimpressive to me. It was a curiosity, not an advantage. And on some music, I felt the separation between instruments was so great, it distracted from enjoyment of the music. The arya was stunningly gorgeous, but wasn’t what I was after in multiple ways. That is not to say soundstage doesn’t matter, but what matters more to me is that it is coherent and not suffocating.

This brings me to my first point: Coherency. I value balance and coherency in nearly all aspects of music presentation. What does that usually mean? Nothing stands out. There is a balance within its own presentation style that smoothly flows across the attribute in question.

This is how I interpret these concepts: Soundstage is represented by the interrelationship of imaging around a 3d space. Imaging is the ability to precisely and consistently locate a source of a sound within the soundstage. The problem is, people aren’t always clear if a presentation lacks good soundstage or good imaging. A good soundstage is often considered to have width, depth and height. Imaging can then pinpoint as precisely as possible within that stage. In addition, you, the listener could be placed in the middle of the soundstage, or have the entire thing essentially in front of you.

As has been beaten to death on this and other threads, the timeless as practically no depth to the soundstage. I 100% agree with this. There is no forward/behind you. There is just a wave of sound in front of you that stretches left and right. I have commented that the effect is like my experience with 2 channel audio. Others have said that is crazy pants. The point is it is a wall of sound right in front of your nose with some width and a bit of height.

Why mention coherency? Because within its dimensional limitations, it comes across as fairly smoothly imaged and competent. This is compared to Zen and Dusk which I have on hand. Let me put this another way: sometimes when you hear something, without comparing it to other things, it can sound a bit wrong (see arya comment above). This does not sound wrong. Without hearing other things, I would never know there is anything different about what this IEM does. Its sound is coherent within its abilities. I would say exceedingly coherent.

I have no difficulty locating instruments within the soundstage that is presented. The sound stage that is presented simply lacks depth. This has an effect of a more “everywhere” style presentation. In the past, I have stolen the term “wall of sound” but that isn’t a good descriptor here. This wall has lots of variations and waving/movement in it. And it is slightly in front of me.

If you listen to nothing but bubbles, chocolate chip trip and letter, yeah, the all around you is not present. Interestingly, I heard things in chocolate chip trip I hadn’t heard before.

Opinion time: Do I like it? Yes. Again, compared to the Zen and the Dusk, their greater depth does very little for me in terms of music. Now, flip to movies, and I simply won’t use the Timeless. The environmental soundstage on the hp-2 makes a movie worth watching (among other things). But for my library of music, soundstage is secondary to coherency of soundstage. And the Timeless performs quite coherently for me.

Note: I severely despise music with instruments in one channel. This is one thing that keeps me tied to the Qudelix with crossfeed enabled. A small amount of crossfeed makes the Beatles Tolerable. Same is true here. Though, it seems to be less problematic here because of the soundstage lack of depth.

But, frequency response!

This IEM has been unique for me on this front. That big list of IEMs and Over Ears above? Not one of the planars is genuinely harman tuned. I put in the timeless and heard something genuinely new to me.

Note: I am using crinacle’s definitions for frequency ranges.

All about that Bass

You start with one of the most elevated bass shelves I have heard all the way through the sub bass. Even the Lcd-XC, which I like a lot, rolls off the sub bass substantially. The only over ear that comes near this was the arya I think. And that is not bass boosted, just completely neutral to the depths of the sub bass. I don’t have a graph I trust for the hp2, but my ears feel the sub bass rumble there far more than on other headphones.

This bass is articulate, crisp, clean in ways only planars have done for me. It’s a bit intoxicating. And this is from someone who really loves DD texture in the bass. I like the Zen because it gives planar speed with DD presentation. But, the sub bass on the timeless is simply a whole different level.

In a home theater setup, sub bass is what you feel from the subwoofer. Sub 80hz signals have a resonance that is felt more than heard. This is the visceral feeling that can come out of the timeless. When a song takes advantage of sub bass, it is clear and present viscerally. And, I don’t say this lightly, but it is more articulate and more present than anything else I have heard. The Zen doesn’t compete here. The hp2 competes in sheer rumble as a 50mm over ear driver. And, yes, I like that, but the precision on the Timeless is absolutely next level for me.

Does it slam? Um, no. Nope, nopety nopety no nope. It just doesn’t. Simple as that. But, again, when the sub bass is activated by a song, it almost makes up for it. This is why I kept going back and forth on slam.

Dillard - 0742 - A song recently introduced to me by a basshead. This song has waves of intricate bass and sub bass flowing through it. The intricacies of bass on display on the Timeless is simply glorious. This is the Timeless at its best.

Do the mids even matter?

I am not one to have strong opinions on lower to center mids. They just kinda need to not suck. And they need to not be taken over by bass or go too far in any direction. The Zen has a bit leaner presentation than the timeless. The timeless stays fuller and nothing bleeds into anything. The hp2 bass comes a bit too far into the lower mids (by ears only).

But, to me, there is something a bit off that I haven’t been able to put my finger on. The fullness/richness I just described compared to the Zen is something I appreciate. But I think the timbre of vocals may be the culprit. The reproduction sounds almost inhuman in its perfection. Pentatonix does not sound this clean and perfect in the real world. The Zen has this naturalness of presentation that is definitely more appealing. As does the hp2. I suspect both dynamics just bring a vocal presentation that I prefer.

It should be noted, I still prefer Pentatonix on Timeless over hp2. The hp2 elevates vocal bass to unrealistic levels. This gives a level of punchiness that simply shouldn’t be present with a-capella music. The headphone I loved the most for this continues to be the Drop Ether Cx. That also lacked a sense of “naturalness” but hit the tonal qualities exceptionally.

I would love feedback on this, as I am not sure if it’s tonal balance or timbre that is the culprit here. Remember, not a reviewer. Just an enthusiast.

Pentatonix - Any song you want - The sonic clarity is unreal. That’s the term. The depth of the vocal detail is quite present and extremely audible. But, it all just sounds a touch fake to me.

Upper mids gets its own section? Seriously?

Yeah, because of the fedora cap in the FR. This, for me, is the biggest flaw in the Timeless. My doctor says I have ridiculously good hearing in the 1-3k range. Like I can hear the lowest tones my audiologist can test for in that range. And I am 40. So this is somewhat unusual I think. So put the following in that context.

The bright/screechy quality of this headphone was nearly unbearable for me initially on some music. Typically, upper mids are a problem with Sabotage vocals. But here, it’s metallica. Very busy music can be extremely screechy. Set me get right to the songs.

Beastie Boys - Sabotage - Typically, the singing (shouting really) is too intense for me on the Zen. Lcd-XC is even worse. But on Timeless, it stays just under control. These are things my brain adapts to, but the relaxed nature of the hp2 is much preferred. Dream on, morgan james cover is similar.

Metallica - Master of Puppets (S&M) - Earlier I described this experience as a cacophony of screeching. I have had plenty of brain adaptation time as well as tip rolling to the cp100 plus. This song has been a challenge for me on everything. This is one of the ones that made the arya sound incoherent to me. The hp2 struggles a bit with separation. The planars generally lack the feeling of power. The timeless is a good mix except it is screeching at me. Honestly, the dusk or zen probably do this one best. It’s simply a tough song to do well across the board.

Treble/Air

For someone that is incredibly sensitive in 1-3k, I don’t seem to care about treble. I think, the upper treble is contributing to the mids screeching, but I haven’t been able to confirm that through EQ tests yet.

What I can say, is this IEM feels extended pretty well. Now, many of my headphones roll off or have relaxed treble presentation. (Zen, check. hp2, check).

If the timeless screechiness is contributed by treble/air, then I need to tone it down a bit. But, if not, I have nothing that stands out. Coherent.

Overall Balance

This is where it all comes together for me. I said this planar is unique in my experience. That uniqueness is a bass boosted, deeply sub bass capable but well balanced planar. This is the strength that draws me to this particular unit.

No other thing I have heard provides this combination. And, to my personal preference, it is intoxicatingly good. This is, of course, driven largely by the bass presentation. Everything else just basically manages to not mess that up. Again, with the coherency leading the way.

Outside of the issues mentioned, I find very little music that doesn’t work for me on this set.

Movies

I want to touch on this again directly. The best movie experience I have had is the hp2. The second best is airpods max (ok, stop laughing please. I get it). For me, the hp2 simply wins there. The soundstage and presentation with deep rumble and slam is just fantastic. The timeless essentially lacks all of that.

I use Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring to evaluate this. And sonically, it is very good. But viscerally and environmentally, it’s a solid fail. This is slam/soundstage flaws showing their ugly head.

Other Technicalities

This should be brief. This IEM edges out the zen in articulation and detail. It’s crisp and clean without assaulting you with pins and needles. The hp2 is uniquely liquid smooth and retains blissful detail. The Timeless has a planar version of some of that smoothness but still highlights its planar capabilities. A wonderful mix.

Conclusion

As always, it’s easier to focus on the flaws. This IEM definitely has some whoppers for flaws. I would say far more than the dusk or the Zen. However, these flaws happen to not be very important to this particularly reviewer. That makes this IEM an absolute top tier in raw value for me. And it has beaten many over ear planars as well.

I love hearing new stuff. If anyone wants me to listen to anything on these, let me know! I am obviously happy to produce walls of text about it. :wink:

TLDR

Cons:

No Depth to soundstage
Can be screechy
Not natural timbre/mids
No Slam

Pros:

Exceptional Sub-Bass/Bass
Extremely good Detail/Articulation/Clarity
Value for Price is off the charts if it fits your preferences
May still have taken the crown from Dunu Zen for me

Fin

32 Likes

This review makes the timeless sounds perfect to me. I just need to use EQ to reduce the 2K peak. That’s all.

1 Like

Damn, I have to agree (except I hear a little depth). For me female vocals timbre sounds a touch off and that weird mouse-like squeal on consonants, and that’s my only problem with them.

Like you the limited depth doesn’t bother me too much on the majority of music.

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I think it comes across as height. I was really back and forth on it. Regardless, no one looking for soundstage should buy these.

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Yeah, they do have height, I’ve mentioned that before. I do perceive some depth but it is marginal.

The tuning is spot on and that for me is the biggest factor.

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Maybe it’s more of a “box” than a sphere as well. Not sure how to describe it better.

But, yeah, if those over ears had this tonal balance, that would be crazy awesome.

Thank you very much for this extensive review. It’s awesome and makes me put the timeless in my wishlist again.

I just have one question: if slam is different from rumble/sub-bass for you, how do you define slam? What is it for you?

3 Likes

Rumble can be generated by tones at a low hertz. Play a 10-20 hertz tone on any headphone that is capable, and it should be somewhat visceral. It’s not moving air that is making you feel it. Again, this is why you can feel subwoofers across the room. Now, on a very dynamic driver sub bass will also move air. (Put your hand in front of a subwoofer). Essentially sub 80hz sound is not “localizable” and comes across as feeling more than sonics.

Slam seems to be generated more from the drivers ability to move air with force. The nature of planars means very little motion of the diaphragm to move that air. Dynamic drivers can have deep excursive motions acting as almost a shotgun of air toward your ear.

The hp-2 physically does this with both rumble and hard hitting bass notes. The timeless does neither, only the effect of low hz sonics come through. And boy do they come through, but a hard drum hit doesn’t generate that percussive air force.

So things that bring sub bass with the bass hits are surprisingly satisfying on timeless. But a pure drum rhythm doesn’t necessarily do that.

Listen to dillard 0742. There is the sub bass that is very present but the bass notes that are hit have no slam behind them. Very different on the hp2 which is basically constantly rattling your entire head.

1 Like