Asking for Dac/Amp and new headphone advice (From DT770).Rant Alert

Headphones Headphone Discussion / Help
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Hello people, little off topic rant coming up so this is the start and I will mark the end if you don’t feel like it :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s been a while since I have posted. Don’t want to sound like a grandma but these are tough times we live in (when weren’t they ? right) and I hope everyone is alright. This is probably the nicest community I have come across online so if you are here… wether you are asking questions or answering them cheer up.

So I came here a little back asking for suggestions for my first pair of headphones and I ended up buying a DT770 pro. I bought the 80 ohm with a fiio A3. Now I wasn’t adviced this exact set up and I kind of wish I went with the 250 ohm version. Also the A3 is good but I feel like we could do way better.

My impressions: Well for some reason the first day or two I was quite sure I made a stupid decision. But then after about a week or two of daily use my perception had totally changed. Was it burn in? Was it my brain syncing up? I really dont know.

So yeah I have actually never heard something as good I think. Now in my head I criticise every sound source I hear:P and almost always not in a nice way. Before this headset I only knew about bass… And this has amazing bass !

But what is this awesome thing? Soundstage? I like! Whats that, imaging? I like! Clarity, details throughout the whole frequency range. Really nice stuff guys, I keep getting impressed by these things.

I love listening to just about anything on these. And I swear I tought this was the end…

But I am curious for more !!! Not right now… but I am already saving up and making plans. You know that this stuff doesn’t come too cheap.

So once again I come to ask for your advice.

=======>> The End of the rant… or not…
I am looking for a nice dac/amp (all in one or stack, dont care) for my DT770 80 ohm that is going to go nice with upgrades as well (DT 1990???).

Keep in mind I am in Europe so I don’t think I have big options. I will list a few things I know and have read here that are good. I am just a bit confused on which is better for what.

Schiit Heresy
Schiit Magni 3+
Schiit Modi ( I guess this is not recommended nowdays?)
Schiit Asgard 3 ( What do you think of the DACs that are offered with these?)
Idsd Nano
Liquid Spark
And I guess some stuff from Topping like the D30 and D10
Fiio K5 pro

Am I missing something at this price point?

I am also looking to try something new with headphones. Considering I haven’t heard anything else then the DT770 I can tell you that I love everything about them.

Now while these headphones have great bass they do other things great as well for me and have got me curious to try some open backs! I want to experience the opennes. Hear some awesome imaging and a big soundstage in combination with clear and detailed sound. Not too coloured not too dull.

( I am thinking my Dt770 are awesome for closed back and it seems like it will be hard to up the bass so I guess I am set for now for closed back. Keep in mind I don’t have access to fostex which I was curious to try. )

So first thing that I thought is fidelio X2 to keep the bass which I like and experience some really wide soundstage and not go too expensive for my first openback.

The other thing that comes to mind is really go for an upgade and try from the same house of Beyer the 1990pro.

I guess it’s inevitable to lose bass quantity with an open-back so let’s not try to compsensate that with the fidelio.

By the way how does singleplayer gaming do with something like this? For example are explosions lame?

These are just my initial thoughts. I am posting all of this to hear suggestions on any of these. i wan’t to learn from your experiences. What do you think ?

Thanks for reading :slight_smile:

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So, for what you are after, something like a magni 3+ and a topping e30 is pretty dang solid, it would give you a somewhat neutral and clean sound, while still being pretty fun, and plenty of power as well. You could go to an asgard 3 with like an e30, but for stuff under 200 it might be rather overkill imo

The 1990 does sound like a good pick, the hifiman sundara also sounds like something you might enjoy imo. Although both of these the asgard 3 is a worthwhile buy with these imo

More fun headphone, personally I think it’s a bit too unrefined and lacking technicalities for the price range, but if you wanted something that’s kinda sloppy fun, it’s not a bad pick imo

So it kind of shares a similar house sound, but it is somewhat different, it’s a fair bit more brighter neutral, more aggressive, and also has more treble than the 770 although it is more refined

With stuff like the sundara and 1990, they aren’t lame, but they also aren’t as bloated as the 770, that being said you can always add in a bit more bass through eq if needed, but overall imo both are pretty fun for games

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@ProbableSteve I am in a similar situation right now and want to upgrade from my Fiio K3, using the 80ohm version of the DT770 Pro. When you are looking at Schiit or Topping products here in europe, where are you planning to buy them? Have you found a shop with products available?

Schiit europe and Schiit.co.uk seems to be out of stock (since a couple of weeks, and for the next couple of weeks) and Topping or JDS Labs products only seem to be available when importing them.

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I personally really like these but will agree to the experienced ear they can appear rather sloppy sounding. Though to myself I love these they are very wide, probably one of the widest in my collection, with a very warm smooth sound to them and a very great bass tone, however if I were to choose those over my aeons? Nope, taking my aeon open x’s all day every day. Though those fidelios are really friggin nice for their price, I would wait though since x3 is coming out soon just so ya know.

Hmm, I would say it depends on whether your looking for something more like your 770s as a kind of upgrade or something different entirely as while the 1990s somewhat sound similar they are fully open and a very different experience imo. If you wanted to take a step up from those 770s I would point you towards the 177x GO which are absolutely fantastic or the T5P which is a bit more advanced and requires a beefier setup. 1990s are brighter, more open, larger soundstage, not as bassy but still have plenty, and they are a v signature compared to 770s which sound more like a U signature.

Goodness no, definitely do not sound lame. Though I would prefer something as analytical as the 1990s for competitives over casual imo. I would definitely point more towards Sundara like m0n mentioned, 177x go, T5P, T1, Aeon open X, Fidelio x2 hr, among quite a few others in that regard. In this case it would come down to personal taste in sound for single player experience, especially in the case of rpgs you would love something that sounds wide for that added immersion.

Magni 3+ is a really nice starter $100 amp but for beyers I rely more on my liquid spark as I feel it sounds better and really smooths out the treble which has a habit of being sibilant. I would definitely say for a higher end “all rounder” amp you can’t go wrong with the asgard 3 and Imo this would suit you well for quite some time. Pair that with an Topping E30 for a nice clean sound and your good to go.

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Ah so you got to try a 3+?

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Hey! Unfortunately you are right Schiit is out of stock right now. Take a look at audiophonics.fr for Topping they seem to be available right now just dont tell everyone :stuck_out_tongue: . Me personally I am not rushing it!

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Yeah, buddy of mine just got his in and brought it over. I love the magni 3+ for my warmer sounding headphones and currently considering picking it up later, well less I try the asgard 3 a little more I got to sit with it for all of about 15 minutes and had to leave but what I heard from my aeons was a very large improvement over the spark imo. Though for my beyers I still prefer the spark. I still haven’t got my liquid platinum though.

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I wish I could get my hands on the 177x or some of the fostex closed backs. Yeah these really seem like more of a direct upgrade. Too bad they are very tough to find in europe. I think I will settle on my 770 for now for close back which is very nice.

I think about exploring some little brighter sounds and an open-back. So by upgrade I meant in general technicalities wise not direct upgrade. For example the fidelios I don’t consider much of an upgrade in technicalities but rather a change of sound at about the same level of general technicalities. Maybe even a downgrade in some aspects.

Thanks for pointing out abous the x3 btw will definetly wait to hear about them!

So I am leaning a lot towards the 1990 especially since @mon said its more of a v-shape. The sundaras look nice as well but I am afraid of quality? Also kinda lame of me but the 1990 look sexy. Not that the sundaras look bad. I hear they have more bass tho?

Also I guess that the topping e30 is better than the option for the internal dac on the asgard? Or is it just that no one has tried it?

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I don’t think the 1990 is a v shape, I think it’s brighter neutral with the analytical pads (I think @Falenkor feels it’s v shaped)

I think I prefer it to the internal 4490 card, but the multibit card is a bit different, using the external dac though allows for more flexibility in the future

I personally think you should be fine as long as you get a pair with a warranty, although some have had poor luck

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^ that there. Agreed that it is a bright neutral.

If possible you can purchase the revision models which are those headphones which already had the annoying stuff fixed. Though I understand the concern as I have had quite the few issues.

To my ears I felt 1990 had a better cleaner and more detailed bass than the Sundara. Sundara is still a very good headphone and again would be a brighter neutral headphone.

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Oh yes I am sorry I got mixed up about the v shape thing between you two. My bad. I was meaning to ask you do you find the increased brightnes fun or tiring? I hear that they can be a bit tiring. But people find the treble on 770s tiring as well so I am a bit confused as to what to expect.

By the way the treble on the 770 I can notice some peaks only when listening very loud which is tiring anyway. Other than that I have been enjoying the highs

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I think the 1990 did have a bit more detailed bass, but I think the sundara extended better and had more speed for it’s bass, but both are pretty nice

Yes, most current models are revision models

I think it depends on the amp you use, if you use something like a magni heresy it can be bad, but with something like an asgard 3 it would be pretty solid and you most likely wouldn’t have issues imo

Stuff like the 250 ohm and the 1990 do correct this issue imo

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Ya know what, I think I can definitely agree there. Still a great sound either way.

I personally find it tiring every now and then but it really depends on what headphone I am using and just how sharp the highs are in that regard. I had this issue the most when I used the extremely sharp DT 990s which after a while it grew very tiresome and I had to take a break or switch headphones for a little while. It’s due to this that I have a bright headphone, a dark headphone, and a warmer more neutral headphone. Though like m0n said a good amp can help with that.

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Alright so I am thinking the asgard 3 with the d30.

My DT770 for isolation, fun bass and good but relaxed all arounder.

DT1990 for an open more involved experience with music and more “athletic” gaming moments :stuck_out_tongue: But hopefully will be prefered for some single player moments as well.

So would you say there is something to define the sundaras vs the 1990 or are they so similar? I am getting that they are a bit more relaxed? Should I have second thoughts on the 1990 being a bit to analytical?

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The d30 would be solid, but imo shoot for a e30 if you can imo

So the 1990 is more aggressive for sure, also more aggressive in it’s staging and is more impactful at times and more expansive imo. The sundara still gets up there in treble and extension but is typically smoother and more forgiving with worse recordings. The 1990 does outresolve the sundara, but the sundara will stay more pleasant with it’s detail imo, the 1990 is more forward with it. Timbre wise they are somewhat similar in tier, neither are extremely orgnaic but neither are lacking imo. For spatial recreation the sundara is a bit less expansive but very quick and has very nice separation, the 1990 is a bit larger with more accurate imaging but also doesn’t have the separation the sundara does at times imo. In terms of impact, the 1990 might be more impactful with the sundara still having good impact but it’s not as punchy as the 1990 from time to time. Overall I would say go with the sundara if you want a more light, airy, impressive yet not overly excited for forward neutral sound. Go with the 1990 if you want more in your face in terms of technicalities but might get a bit tiring on longer sessions

2 Likes
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Alright first of all very nice writing you are really helping me paint a picture here. So I only got confused a bit with one thing. You say that the 1990 is more aggressive in its staging but also more expansive. Also bigger in terms of special recreation.

I was getting that it is more forward and in your face so I was expecting that the sundara was the more expansive and larger.

Maybe I am getting the meaning of expansive wrong. You are talking in terms of soundstage spatiality. Not frequency extension right?

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Sorry let me clarify, the 1990 will at times push things out farther or closer than they should, so you might get more space out of something that didn’t actually have that, it will be more quick to change and place things than the sundara, it will be more forceful in it’s staging and artificially separate things which can be more fun but it’s technically not as accurate

Yes expansive in terms of soundstage, the 1990 does sound more spacious, although the sundara does sound a bit larger in terms of presentation because of the driver. In terms of frequency response, the 1990 and sundara both extend into the treble fairly well, but imo the sundara can dig deeper into the bass with a more linear extension where the 1990 has a small hump and then starts to roll off after 45 hz

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Alright alright very nice. Thanks :slight_smile: So yeah the sundara does seem like a very nice option as well so I guess will really have to think about this. By the way am I right to think that the imaging and staging will be much better then the 770 on any of these? Also I guess the 770 is a bit darker V shaped sound generally speaking right?

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I would personally say yes, but it won’t be exactly the same

The 770 80 ohm isn’t something I would call bright, it’s more just a general v shape, but the treble is peaky on the 80 ohm imo where it can bother people

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wait, i remember thinking about a weird arguement concerning airyness somewhere and the sundara technically was airier because of 10k whatever but personally i thought the ksc75 was airier. maybe the word i was looking for was spacious?? like the two most spacious headphones i have heard are the ksc75 and elex, could u see that maybe being the word i was looking for?
Edit: like it feels like there is more air or space between the instruments? while in the sundara i don’t hear or feel any air or space between the instruments