yes, I guess this is what happens….
You added nothing to the discussion besides quips and insults. FOH
Lazy
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The Constitution is cited like legal precedent by a lawyer when it suits the cause
The rights of criminals discussion has gone on over 2 days now. Are you a convicted felon? Your particular interest is because..? I’m curious if you can share
I don’t (like a majority of Americans) particularly care about the rights of convicted criminals
Where is the line drawn ?
Is a murderer of another human being enough?
Is that severe enough?
No?
How about raping a child
The voting rights of a convicted pedophile which is within the group you are discussing…means nothing to me. I don’t even think they should ever be free as the recidivism rate is so high
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I was talking about that earlier, here
Reality is, El Salvador approach works, small crimes, big crimes, don’t care, the prison soo harsh, every crime dropped like 80~90%.
Extreme methods work, I just feel it’s inhuman for the small crimes, then again, if it works, can’t argue with that. That’ll teach people to be in line. Will only feel bad for those framed into being imprisoned.
After that, what rights, you are just happy to be alive.
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In a country where victims rights are ridiculously poor, the voting rights of a Convicted Pedophile or a Murderer is not something I give any fucks about
If you care about that. It’s an inseparable part of this…I don’t care about your opinion or feelings.
Go volunteer for Rapist child murderer rights wherever that’s a thing
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Discord and the like, fries people’s brains
Ignore them The original poster @zadillo is at least building the argument. I can disagree but respect the effort as genuine, straw man or devils advocate arguments
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Portugal package was returned due to Middle East conflict
Will resend with the Egypt package when the issue is fixed
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Looks like ceasefire isn’t enough, hopefully things are figured out in the next 2~3 weeks.
You are doing an amazing work in all this 
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I will reship as soon as possible. 1 month should be enough..,hopefully
Karma
I believe in it. Makes more sense than any religion anyway 
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The Constitution is cited like legal precedent by a lawyer when it suits the cause
The rights of criminals discussion has gone on over 2 days now. Are you a convicted felon? Your particular interest is because..? I’m curious if you can share
I don’t (like a majority of Americans) particularly care about the rights of convicted criminalsWhere is the line drawn ?
Is a murderer of another human being enough?
Is that severe enough?
No?
How about raping a childThe voting rights of a convicted pedophile which is within the group you are discussing…means nothing to me. I don’t even think they should ever be free as the recidivism rate is so high
Nope, I’m not a convicted felon. I just generally believe that voting is one of the most fundamental and important rights in a functioning democracy.
The questions you’re asking are fair ones, but frankly they could be applied to a host of issues and rights, not just the vote. I don’t know exactly where the line is, but i think in most cases we can’t really start designating what rights anyone who has been convicted of a crime lose for the rest of their lives, beyond any jail time they serve.
I think you’re probably getting at the heart of some bigger questions though. What crimes should result in basically being in jail for life. I probably would agree that some of the worst crimes should result in being permanently cut off from free society, and thus the right to vote among many other things.
I just want to say again though, I’m kind of surprised that what I’m talking about is being treated as some sort of radical position. As I’ve said a few times, most countries either don’t restrict voting rights for convicted felons at all, and if those that do, it’s usually fairly narrow felonies that result in permanent disenfranchisement. A fair number of countries even allow prisoners to vote ( honestly this is an interesting read I came across trying to find more information on what different countries rules are: https://cdn.penalreform.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/The-right-of-prisoners-to-vote_March-2016.pdf - some of this might be out of date though since it’s from 2016)
I care about it because I don’t really like most American efforts to hamper or interfere with the right to vote, which we have a pretty long, ugly history of. I’d like us to not be an outlier nation in this regard.
It seems like the approach in some countries is to allow disenfranchisement depending on the severity of the crime, and that’s probably a feasible solution to the moral question of who should be denied those rights.
It’s not that I’m trying to defend particularly heinous criminals, it’s that I just think it’s part of a much bigger picture about voting as a fundamental right in a democracy.
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I appreciate you never devolving into personal attacks 
I don’t think you are taking a radical stance
I think it highlights how complex topics are and how they inevitably bring up more questions and discussion.
This kind of discussion is healthy and only able to be handled by people who have a developed understanding and decided to discuss
I learn things from children as often as I do from adults. My mind is always open to some extent. Being any other way is how “ignorance “ is defined
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It is collapsing real time, GG US.
also i don’t think it is a bias, I’ve tried to go out of my usual sources, but 95% of the comments/commentators want Trump impeached. also for profiting from the war,
like i said before, you make a loss, he makes a profit on drone/missile deals. Everytime there was an ultimatum, it was either 2 days or 2 weeks time, Hint hint.
I appreciate you never devolving into personal attacks
I don’t think you are taking a radical stance
I think it highlights how complex topics are and how they inevitably bring up more questions and discussion.
This kind of discussion is healthy and only able to be handled by people who have a developed understanding and decided to discussI learn things from children as often as I do from adults. My mind is always open to some extent. Being any other way is how “ignorance “ is defined
Absolutely agree. I’ve got two daughters and I feel like I’ve learned a ton either from them or through watching them learn.
Someday I’ll try and contribute a music topic here, I feel like I only chime in on political topics 
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Political specialists is welcome
Anytime
If anyone loses their shit just ignore them 
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I have a very real example of this here. One of our truckdrivers is a convicted murderer.
Since this was a public case, I’ll point you to a news article about it. (It’s in Dutch, so you’ll have to pull it through a translator)
Sentenced to 18 years and disenfranchised for life. Practically, he did 1/3rd of his sentence in prison, and is now (january this year) out under electronic supervision. In addition to the ankle bracelet, we have to turn in a report every day on his itinerary for the following day.
I generally agree with @Raptor168 sentiment of ‘Break the jar, pay for the jar’. And in this specific case, that is what is happening. Sort of. He’s ‘reformed’ and back to being a functioning member of society, but will carry punishment for the rest of his life because he commited a crime that cannot ever be repaid.
But as always, nothing is ever as straightforward as you might initially think. There are tons of arguments here. The most obvious being that the guy erased a wifebeater. And he knows very well what he did. I first met him while he was out on bond after doing 2 years in preparation of the trial. One of the conditions was that he needed to be employed while awaiting his trial. That is when we took him in. From my interactions with him, I would have never guessed his past (I was not aware of what he did until almost a year later) from interacting with him. But when the trial came near, he got overwhelmed with guilt and tried to opt out by chugging a bottle of jack, slit his wrists and then slit his throat. By miracle (curse?) he survived this. During the trial he stated that he would not fight anything and accept any punishment.
So, it’s really easy to judge faceless criminals for their crimes. Not so easy when you get to know them and their circumstances. Then it will be up to your own moral code on where you stand. (In my case, I take less issue with killing a wifebeater than killing a child. It’s still murder, but there is a big difference in severity imho)
Do I believe he should be allowed to vote again, or obtain a passport so he can travel abroad? If it was for stealing a phone or something, yes. But in this case he took someone’s life, so no.
This was a longwinded way to say that I agree with disenfranchisement based on the severity of the crime.
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Your example reinforces what i was trying to tell earlier.
Thank you
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Where I live they are allowed to vote and they vote usually day before the elections for the rest.
“Prisoners in North Macedonia have the right to vote if they are citizens, at least 18 years old, and have not been deprived of legal capacity by a court. Prisoners and detainees vote one day before the official Election Day in prison-based polling stations.”
This was also always bonkers for me since why would someone that is convicted felon have right to vote and shape the future of my country? Yes you can have argument that they aren’t big share in the vote but nevertheless. Also is true that even convicted felons have basic human rights in prison and their life and conditions in the facility is influenced by who comes to be position and governing with the country. But again I think their needs to be at least good defined line what degree of felony is acceptable to vote and which won’t have their right.
Besides convicted felons I have also problem with voting rights of people that live longer than some period (5-10) years in another country, have another citizenship and they are not paying any kind of taxes towards the country in these years. This is also big problem where I live since we are quite poor country that has a lot of people living abroad and left the country for better life, but on the another hand you have the paradox of them becoming biggest patriots and talking about the life here like they live here. A lot of stuff in modern democracy doesn’t make sense and has too much fate in the nature of humanity, which as we can see at this point has big limitations.
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I look at this sometimes and remember that I got bullshitted for 8-10 weeks until the guy admitted that he wasn’t making it, it was subcontracted to a guy in the Philippines
The deadlines were impossible to keep.
I’m going to put 250 bucks worth of stuff on a shelf and use the case for Traillii Ultra
Don’t ever deal with that dude unless he discloses the build time and any subcontractors. I would suggest there are a lot of folks who you can find that won’t take $3000.00 and play around with it or you 
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Thanks for sharing that story. Truly incredible, and a true encapsulation of how complex all of this is.
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Has the Ultra already arrived btw? Really interested to hear if/what it adds to the regular one.
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