🔶 Beyerdynamic DT1990

[SpeleoFool]

@mjx

I asked about 800s and 1990 to know what i’m missing from the 800s, how much bigger soundstage and imaging just to compare and know where the 1990 stands, if its not huge I’ll just keep the 1990 for gaming duties because i love it for that you can tell if the enemy on your left is on top of the bridge or under it.

So, a brief word on my gaming test: I like to run headphones through the “No Fighting in the War Room” level of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Remastered. It’s a popular and well-known game that I own on both PC and XBox, and that level is full of intense action, atmospheric effects (underground fighting) and a variety of weapons to pick up from the silenced starter gear to AKs to shotguns and grenades. It makes for a good approximation of both MP and SP gameplay.

My expectation going into the gaming test was that the larger soundstage of the 800S may or may not make an important / helpful difference in terms of being able to judge distances well, but I didn’t expect a night and day improvement. I was wrong.

For gaming, the 800S are on a whole other level. It’s not just the soundtstage. Both the 800S and 1990s have excellent soundtstage and pinpoint imaging. However, the 800S made the 1990s feel congested, which is not something I thought I’d ever say about these headphones. They’re still going to be a favorite recommendation for gaming, especially since they do so well with music.

There’s something going on with the 800S–I want to say maybe a slight recession in upper mids?–that not only helps the soundstage to feel expansive, but also renders the entire gaming soundscape in a very pleasant velvety-smooth way. At the same time, the 800S has very bright treble (it’s more prone to sibilance than the 1990s), and the S, at least, has decent bass. The combination of sharp treble and decently weighty bass gave them more of that exciting cinematic feel that I usually go to my Elegias for. It was like having the best of both worlds between a competitive and a casual tuning.

On top of that the 800S are exceedingly light and comfortable. The 1990s feel clunky and bulky by comparsion. I could wear either for long gaming sessions, but I could forget I’m wearing the Senns.

So, that’s the good news. It’s not all rosy.

There’s a video review of the 800S that I wanted to share that someone posted in Zeos’s Patreon chat yesterday, but it’s not quite ready yet. I asked the author for permissions and he asked me to wait for it to go live on YouTube first. I’ll come back and post a link later when it’s up.

The reason I wanted to share that review is because of its theme of “why I love the 800S and why you probably shouldn’t buy them.” I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment and the reasoning behind it, which is made clear with numerous sample tracks that illustrate the temperamental aspects of the 800S. In short, it’s exceedingly good at certain things under certain conditions, but it’s not a great all-rounder. And it’s hyper-expensive for headphones that happen to be phenomenal for gaming, but a mixed bag for music.

Short version: with well-mastered music, the 800S can deliver everything you’d expect for $1700 headphones. But bad recordings will sound bad, sibilant recordings are stabbity-sharp, and intimate vocals are not so intimate. If you’re going to sink that kind of money into headphones, there are piles of better options that will deliver a more balanced excellence across movies, games and music.

@Falenkor

First time I hear of a Sennheiser having a massive soundstage.

Yes, the 800 series is known for some of the largest soundstage of any headphones–it’s like Sennheiser got a chip on their shoulder about 600-series (relative lack of) soundstage and outdid themselves.

[Falenkor]

I don’t make use of a straight up tube amp but I have the liquid platinum. It performs quite well with it. However, subjectively speaking, I don’t think it performs anywhere near as significantly as say the T1.2 does when it comes to using tubes. I am sure others can chime on this better then I can but i would recommend just a solid state, hybrid, or maybe adding a tube preamp to a solid state as in some cases for headphones that is said to be real nice.

[Falenkor]

@SpeleoFool

However, the 800S made the 1990s feel congested, which is not something I thought I’d ever say about these headphones

The fact you make this comment is hard to believe considering how large the 1990 is in its staging rather dumb when I think about it lol.

@SpeleoFool

On top of that the 800S are exceedingly light and comfortable. The 1990s feel clunky and bulky by comparsion. I could wear either for long gaming sessions, but I could forget I’m wearing the Senns.

That’s a bit wild… the 1990s are extremely comfortable for me

@SpeleoFool

Yes, the 800 series is known for some of the largest soundstage of any headphones–it’s like Sennheiser got a chip on their shoulder

Why the hell couldn’t they do that in the more budget option!? Like my biggest complaint with sennheisers

[mjx]

Thank you so much, everything I wanted to hear about it in gaming… It’s true what they say about it then … so there is enough bass for immersion, good to know that for the 800S.

In a perfect world then you would get 800s just for gaming and something else for your musical taste and call it there . Btw what dac amp you used for the 800s and 1990 ?

[PABastien]

From what I know of the 598-600-650-660s is that they’re all variants and evolutions of the same legacy drivers. Iteratively building off a now 20-30 year old design.
Made before the current trends and tech in audio were focused on stuff like what gave us the 800s
I mean the first reviews of HD600 were in 1998 So its not liket theres gonna be any changes to what’s so heavily established
So the HD800/800s/820 are the newer tech, which is where we see all the advancements

Also the 800 headphones are so known for their immense soundstage, they’re actually criticized for being too wide, especially the base 800

[Falenkor]

And with that I learn something new lmao.It’s quite a shame. I guess I can hope they release a budget friendlier headphone like the hd800 with that nice expansive soundstage… I love the sennheiser line and all but I always hated the very small soundstage. In the price of the hd800 theres just way to many other headphones I would end up trying before I got to that point.

[PABastien]

There most likely will be, or at the very least a more affordable variant on the 800 tech done by drop or something

[Falenkor]

That is definitely something I would be more than happy to buy if the price is good for myself personally. Not everyone can afford almost 2k headphones. Guess I will just keep my eyes out for a potential new sennheiser

[SpeleoFool]

@Falenkor

The fact you make this comment is hard to believe considering how large the 1990 is in its staging rather dumb when I think about it lol.

That’s exactly why I was not expecting a massive change going from 1990 → 800 S. I’ve always thought the 1990s had exceptional stage. It’s phenomenal and has been my personal pick for gaming right up until this morning’s test.

Elegias are quite narrowly staged, but imaging is good and I get by with them. For Alien: Isolation I went with 1770 Pros, which have a noticeably smaller stage than 1990s, but still good enough to detect all the action going on around me while hiding in closets and whatnot. I would have gone for 1990s but wanted closed backs for the immersion factor (i.e., blocking out the wife).

Staging is so good on 1990s that when they came in my wife and I both spent an evening going through tracks just to marvel at the expansiveness and great separation between instruments in orchestral pieces, for example.

The 800S just feels like it stretches to the horizons.

@Falenkor

That’s a bit wild… the 1990s are extremely comfortable for me

Again, I agree with you: the 1990s are not uncomfortable. I get headaches from extremely long sessions with the LCD-GX, for example, which has a good suspension system but is still a tank. The difference between 1990s and 800S are so stark I had to look up the specs.

The 1990s w/o cord are 370g. The 800S is 330g, but feels way closer to the Drop + AKG 7xx (a mere 235g). That may have something to do with sleeker cups, better weight distribution, maybe the headband? In any case, the 800S feels feather-light. It’s a major strong point for gaming use, and it’s immediately noticeable when picking them up. They feel deceivingly light.

@Falenkor

Why the hell couldn’t they do that in the more budget option!? Like my biggest complaint with sennheisers

Lol. Yeah, their line is weird. I love literally every type of music on 600-series cans, but the closed-in stage has kept me from ever using them on games. Then the 800S comes along with god tier gaming performance, but a more limited compatibility with music. Maybe you have to go to HE-1s to get both, lol.

@mjx

In a perfect world then you would get 800s just for gaming and something else for your musical taste and call it there . Btw what dac amp you used for the 800s and 1990 ?

Yeah, my headphones are in my profile–I’m between 30 and 40 pairs now; it took me a long time to get around to 800S. My all-around favorites are Focal Stellias, and I love ZMF Eikons for vocal tracks, etc. 1990s remain a favorite for gaming and music; they do both well and especially excel with aggressive music. I picked up 800S specifically for the staging and to try for gaming (just hadn’t done so until now).

For my testing I used an RME ADI-2 feeding both a Monoprice 887 THX amp (800S) and RNHP (1990s). I used 1/4" for both.

[Falenkor]

@SpeleoFool

That’s exactly why I was not expecting a massive change going from 1990 → 800 S. I’ve always thought the 1990s had exceptional stage. It’s phenomenal and has been my personal pick for gaming right up until this morning’s test.

In the same boat, it’s my go to for gaming and quite a lot of music. Think I will stay with the 1990s for now though My wallet screams at me enough.

@SpeleoFool

Elegias are quite narrowly staged, but imaging is good and I get by with them

good to know, I am going to actually be going to an audio store probably next week to try these out as well as elear, clear, and focal listen pro of this brand line.

@SpeleoFool

1770 Pros,

I had a real bad experience when I finally got around to these… rattling drivers and extreme sibilance I think I just had a really awful copy but I just don’t know really. I like the 177x GO though.

@SpeleoFool

The 1990s w/o cord are 370g. The 800S is 330g

Sounds like it practically disappears on your head thats actually pretty damn nice. My tygrs are incredibly light like that and are actually more comfortable than my 1990s.

@SpeleoFool

Maybe you have to go to HE-1s to get both, lol.

There’s no way I could ever get around to picking that one up lmao.

[mjx]

Great. I’ll keep enjoying my 1990 and milk their price as they are my first step in audiophile and it would be such a waste to throw them so early.

The more I listen to them the better they sound I dunno, yes there is that metallic sound here and there but because its a good experience listening to them you forgive that single flaw.

I’m sure later down the road I’ll get the 800S (in a year or less) just for movies and gaming and all cinematic situations (i love immersion and escapism with sound) and another one for my music taste like some warm rich planars.

Your words @SpeleoFool about the 800s assured me about my initial plan before even buying the 1990 but I said before I jump that high let me see whats audiophile is all about and what is open back sounds like glad i did.

Thanks again.

[mjx]

@Falenkor it seems you like your 1990 for music and gaming more than tygr which is a relief lol, I knew about it after I received my 1990.

[Falenkor]

It really depends on what I am doing to tell the truth. If you notice I tend to teeter on what I say I prefer most lmfao. I am relatively picky based on music genre or game genre on what I prefer in terms of sound. Tygr is really quite gorgeous for more casual immersive games where brightness really doesn’t need to be a factor horror games are a good place for it too, dunno bout you but hearing screeching monster sounds in a bright headphone? I may like treble but that definitely gets fatiguing after a while.

I do find the 1990 to be essentially one of the best, if not thee best for gaming bright headphones, especially in competitive fps.

Edit: If I were to say anything is bad on the 1990? Probably the mids. it’s not a very good vocal mid frequency centric headphone in my opinion. That award would definitely go to the sennheisers and maybe focal

[mjx]

@Falenkor
dunno bout you but hearing screeching monster sounds in a bright headphone

Yes its annoying but that’s why I said I forgive that 1 flow because everything else sounds good in them . also that’s why I don’t dare to go A pads yet

[Falenkor]

That metallic sound your mentioning and piercing highs… definitely try the dekoni elite velours like I mentioned. You may find more appreciation of the headphone

@mjx

that’s why I don’t dare to go A pads yet

I mean, I love the A pads but I am definitely not treble sensitive. I just don’t like analytical for much outside of competitive gaming cause it kills my bass

[mjx]

@Falenkor I’ll check that dekoni. Sorry I forgot did you say it loses alot of bass? I know its in between B and A but is the bass alot less than B or just slightly?

[Falenkor]

The dekoni? It’s bassier than the A pads but not as bassy as the B pads. Meanwhile it reduces the treble presence by a surprisingly large amount yet keeps the mids which in return makes the mids more present instead of pushed back like the balanced pads seem to do. In terms of bass from least to greatest A, D, B. Analytical pads really drop that bass out making it fairly neutral but without too much rumble super ideal for competitive gamers, balanced will make the 1990 similar to the 990s in that it turns it back into a V signature but without heavily recessed mids meanwhile the Dekoni Elite velour will turn the frequency more towards a Neutral ish U which if you were to compare signature frequencies it’s closer to the 177x go. Still good present raised bass and good raised treble but not significantly so.

If you want real stupid bass feel free to pick up some dekoni sheepskin or choice for the 1990s but that’s only if you want to blow up the bass on the 1990s lmao

red dt 1770 pleather pads, orange dekoni sheepskin, blue Balanced pads, Green Dekoni elite velour, Purple Analytical

[mjx]

the dekoni velour seems to bring that nonexistent 4.8k up quite a bit too interesting.

[Falenkor]

yep the only pad I found for the 1990 to really bring that frequency out and balance the hell out of the headphone in general. Incredibly nice pairing. This kind of frequency has the same sort of effect on headphones like the dt 990 and somewhat the T1.2(though why the hell you would put it on a t1 beyond me that headphone is so gorgeous it hurts but it demands a higher tier setup to bring to full sound hence I normally don’t recommend that one lol)

[SpeleoFool]

@Falenkor

In the same boat, it’s my go to for gaming and quite a lot of music. Think I will stay with the 1990s for now though My wallet screams at me enough.

Lol. Yeah, I keep thinking I’m done, then something else comes along and demands attention. I’m feeling pretty saturated at this point, though. Every new thing is a much harder sell. There was a $300 off sale on 800S that finally got me to jump on those. Honestly, I’d look used or open box and try for under $1200–if you ever decide to go for them.

@Falenkor

good to know, I am going to actually be going to an audio store probably next week to try these out as well as elear, clear, and focal listen pro of this brand line.

Ah, very cool! Elegias won me over by being exceptional for a closed-back; they sound very open. I also find them to be a good all-rounder. Tastes very, though, and some have disagreed. I do think they made a lot of people here happy when Adorama had their silly fire sale on them, though.

I also read somewhere (Head-Fi?) that “nobody needs 1990s if you have Clears,” which got me curious. The tuning really is pretty similar with Clears sounding a bit more refined minus some of the aggressive edge that the 1990s have. I still like that 1990 edge for loud, angry music. In any case, that might be an interesting comparison for you to make when you hear the Clears since you’ve got so much experience with 1990s.

@Falenkor

I had a real bad experience when I finally got around to [1770 Pros]… rattling drivers and extreme sibilance I think I just had a really awful copy but I just don’t know really. I like the 177x GO though.

Yikes! No rattle on mine; I did swap out the stock pads for the leather ones almost immediately, though, and that really tamed the treble (maybe a tad over-tamed, TBH). But the BASS! OMG! With the pad swap I like the Pros better than the Gos, personally. But one of these days I’m going to have to do the pad swap on those, too, and see how that changes things.

I do have to say, the Gos have a more even-keeled tuning with their stock pads than the Pros did with theirs. There was something off in the mids on the Pros before I swapped pads, but then after that they became excellent–just a bit dulled in the highs.

@mjx

Great. I’ll keep enjoying my 1990 and milk their price as they are my first step in audiophile and it would be such a waste to throw them so early.

The more I listen to them the better they sound I dunno, yes there is that metallic sound here and there but because its a good experience listening to them you forgive that single flaw.

Sounds like the smart move. If the world ever opens back up, try to get to a CANJAM or a meet or something. It’s amazing to hear a variety of high-end cans and finally be able to connect a personal listening experience to mere words, which are always inadequate to describe everything you hear.

@mjx

Your words @SpeleoFool about the 800s assured me about my initial plan before even buying the 1990 but I said before I jump that high let me see whats audiophile is all about and what is open back sounds like glad i did.

Thanks again.

Glad you found that helpful. Enjoy the journey!