Will second the PM-50s. I think it fixes a bit of the sundaras coloration issues. Becomes much warmer and gains better punch and gets a much more even frequency response. I really think they’re a good sidegrade to the Sundaras. They’ve replaced the sundaras for almost everything, as the sound signature is more my style.
Have heard some ugly things regarding the verum ones. I would have to really consider price tags on the xx or pm 50s it’d have to go quite a bit lower for me to consider them more seeing how the sundara really drops in price tag. @Pr3ssAltF4 the sundara has a neutral sound signature at the same time has alot of imaging and staging to it is the pm50 the same way? Outside of a warmer sound what is really different to this headphone? I looked it up and its $500 while sundara is right now $350 and $250 in an open box sales thats hefty price difference there. By chance does the pm50 go on sale like this as well? Honestly, I am having trouble even finding pages that sell this product.
PM-50 has same or slightly better soundstage. Separation is on par, but the warmth makes it feel a tiny bit worse on more muddled tracks.
PM-50 is, if anything, more neutral than the sundaras. Freq response is pretty dead even. However, they’re anything but lifeless. Neutral + warm + a bit of punch + good extension in treble and bass make them fun to listen with.
Open box sundara might not be the best idea.
Afaik there are no qc issues with the pm-50s. Their build is also much more solid / durable / luxurious. I would say the only caveat is the pads sent with the cans. They are also easier to drive and more portable. They are much more of an on-ear can than around ear. If you can’t deal with that I would stay away. However, I don’t find myself fatigued by the pads at all pretty much.
They’re very new cans. PM-50s are only sold through Andover Audio’s website. You missed the PM-50’s at $400 sale by 2 days.
I currently make use of the DT 990s as a go to headphone and was trying to find an all rounder… I did try the 58x. both ear cups are fine and both go completely around my ears without discomfort -just read that edit… yeah that makes me kinda mad actually lol- I know all about the qc issues with hifiman products. I hate buying cans without an audition though I mean I guess I can wait till later in the year to see if they hit a proper sale on them as they are a side grade they do look really nice design wise. I did hear the verum is supposedly really good its just I also heard a ton of complaints so it makes me iffy considering I also see no way to audition those myself without complications. You mentioned the caveat is the pads? What’s wrong with those can they have a replacement to a better pad or something then?
I literally missed it by hours…I was pissed… still contemplating… might be nice to go with my 4xx, 58x and hawks
Refer to this thread for in-depth impressions.
I love my sundaras, but I like my PM-50s better. I’m also quite certain that they’ll last a hell of a lot longer. I’m also not afraid to walk around with the PM-50s or go outside with them.
Pads are pretty much on-ear. Read the reviews for more info. It fits more like an MDR 7506 than a DT 990. However, pads are filled with angel feathers or some shit, so it’s not uncomfortable. Just have to get used to it. Would not count it as a negative imo.
Can confirm they’re even more sexy in person lol.
Verum is supposed to sound fantastic. Build quality can be iffy. Apparently moreso on both ends than the sundara.
Also, PMs ship fast in the US. The warranty and the return policy are also good. You basically get a free 15 day trial, which is more than enough time to burn them in.
I got my sundaras through Headphones.com solely for the return policy. I still have everything I’d need to send them back in if necessary. If you don’t have the 365 day return I’d steer clear (even though the risk is low).
Oof. I would say still worth at $500.
Yeah, I was just looking at that return policy they have. Meanwhile, Verum over there doesn’t seem to compute the understanding of auditioning I guess with its 50% refund policies considering the price tag that’s a hefty annoyance. I will give that in-depth a look thank you for the link. My issue is that again. It’s still a hefty price those headphones have to be really worth while ya know? Always wanted a headphone with angel feathers in it… I want to feel blessed as I listen to death metal and butcher people in game. No not really-
Am going to go listen to some metal and see if they’re appropriate.
Can confirm these cans are good at rock/blues/reggae/jazz/swing/acoustic folk though.
Depends on how big your ears are and stuff.
Google Andover Audio PM-50s. Reviews are still coming out so there might be new stuff.
Kinda hoping they do like the sundaras and go around $350. Would definitely consider picking them up at that price point. $500 for me is incredibly steep especially right now. Id say if they are as similar as I am reading then theyd have to be on point pricing… I cant see paying extra for a minor side grade due to a headphone pad issue lol
1 Like
Yea. The Sundara’s original price point was somewhere around $450-500 I think. Hifiman is a bigger company though, so it’s easier for them to drop the price on a mass produced successful product. They’re definitely direct competitors, but since the PM-50s are a smaller and newer company they are going to cost more for now.
Sidenote, I’m liking the way these guys treat Five Finger Death Punch right now. Will switch to sundaras in a bit. Running them through a Liquid Platinum Hybrid + Enog2.
1 Like
Okay. So based on your use case I don’t think they are a minor upgrade at all. If it’s metal + gaming I’d hands down choose the PM-50s. Like holy shit these things are more engrossing for metal comparatively.
If you were listening to classical or orchestral or going for laid back or really analytical listening I’d go with the Sundaras. Been using the PM-50s for playing Planetside / squad. I’d call them a solid upgrade.
I really don’t think the pads are an issue. They will be coming out with bigger ones in the near future if you are that concerned.
Regardless you won’t go wrong with either IMO.
Just read the reply. So I looked over the reviews and it seems while the pm50s offer a higher bass and its just a harder beat overall with warmer tones the sundara offer the airyness while maintaining a more realistic sound approach. For gaming over the top audio can become a nuisance meanwhile in music this is welcomed and analytical approach can be a blessing in some games. From just reading all the reviews it definitely seems like the pm50 is better for the music approach while sundara is better suited as a gamers approach. Least from what I am reading. Price tag particularly dictates me to skip these but I will be keeping a close eye on these for the time being especially if I cannot find a way to fix my issue with the sundaras. at the price point the pm 50 is sitting in it’s in competition with not just the sundara but the Hifiman Edition XX as I just searched it and it showed in the $500 range as well. It honestly feels like as far as headphones go in the $350 range or less as it can go to $250 these are like the supreme headphone right now as I have yet to find anything better in that price point
I would call it the reverse. Having used both for games I would hands down go for PM-50s. Especially so for shit like Tarkov where it’s live or die by audio.
The sundaras are the better analytical music listening cans for certain genres along with a more traditional earcup fit.
Anyways, keep both cans on your radar.
Most definitely.
just a question. Was looking at Thieaudio Phantom and wondered how they measured to the Sundara since they are in the same price bracket of the planars. They look comfortable as hell
Phantoms are an interesting set. Personally they will need to be modded to get the best sound out of them. A short way to compare the sounds would be a much darker congested sound to the Sundaras.
This review from Headfonia does a good job at describing the sound
And there is a long thread you can read on this board about them as well
1 Like
Ah thank you so much! I will take a look
I mean, if I had to way to audition them with these mods implemented in order to directly compare and see which I preferred… I would. Pretty sure modifications voids any refund if there even is a proper trial run. However, the fact they are considered “congested” kind of turns me away as I like an airy seperated sound with wide staging and imaging
Hmm, so I was thinking of trying to find a way to Audition the Verum 1. Does anyone happen to know where one can go to do such a thing? Verum 1 does offer returns but its a 50% return which is extremely hefty. I did consider the PM - 50s but I have to much under the belt right now to factor this in at this current point in time. At the very least is there anyone out there who either has these or at the very least TRIED these out and has some experience with these? What kind of sound signature is it, how is it truly compared to the sundara, they are the same price point, how is the build quality, whats the pros and cons, etc