Do the r2r dacs give some kind of distortion like a tube amp? Also are they a warmer DAC?
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Depends on the design of the dac, they aren’t inherently colored imo
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The DAC’s don’t inherently.
The Soekris R2R DAC’s for example are usually considered on the analytical side.
It’s more a choice by the designer.
DAC’s like the MHDT “R2R” DAC’s use tube output stages, and obviously add warmth…
Not Antelope. Part of how Apogee got their place in the market was by selling some of the best standalone word clocks in the industry, like the Big Ben. Apogee claims that the internals of the Element series are equivalent to The Ensemble Thunderbolt (currently $2500), and all they’ve done is stripped away the physical controls, replacing them with software. All of the reviews out there that have compared the two series say they’re sonically on-par with each other, and I’ve heard a clear sonic improvement over devices like the Quartet. The Element has word clock I/O, and Apogee claim in their marketing that it has “superior” clocking (not sure compared to what, but they don’t tend to risk their reputation on claims that don’t mean anything).
I have absolutely listened to some remarkably high-end DACs. I used to own a top-of-the-line Meridian. I’ve even spent time with the Boulder DAC that costs roughly a downpayment on a house. Many out there are still relying on decades-old Burr-Brown chipsets. Chord is one of the few DAC manufacturers that is actually producing new tech in a high-end DAC. The point being that everything from the power supply to vibrational isolation, to the components used in the analogue output stage, to goodness knows what else, all seem to have at least as big an impact on the sound as any advancements that have been made in terms of the actual converters, upsampling, etc.
Correct, the big Ben was impressive for it’s time but imo it’s been pretty far surpassed at this point
It’s a nice interface, but I don’t think it’s on par with some of the industry leaders at this moment imo, it’s still nice though
Correct, I’m just wondering what your point is here? Dacs have improved from the past for sure, many do use nos dacs like burr brown or analog devices but others do use their own custom resistor ladders or fpga, both are great. New tech doesn’t always equal better, but I just fail to understand what you are trying to convey with your initial post? Anything really high end is typically going to continue to preform, and that’s pretty common in audio. You would want to compare something that is on equal footing price wise to get a good comparison for progression imo
That supposed advancements in the converters over the years are quite a bit overblown, and largely down to marketing claims.
I have done more equal-footing comparisons in the past. Clearly not in this post. But the idea there has much to do with the promise of digital - that over time, tech that was high-end makes its way into lower-priced gear. If Moore’s law applies at all, then current cheap converters have much more processing power than previous top-of-the-line converters. That, unfortunately, doesn’t seem to translate to actually doing the job better, or necessarily even just as good.
I could somewhat agree with this, but I will say on the budget side of things it’s gotten much better, but in the high end realm it hasn’t moved that quickly, mostly any pretty high end dac from the past 10-20 years will most likely continue to sound great
Yes, the actual digital components have improved in terms of specs and theoretical performance, but not too much in sound on the high end side of things. On the analog side, it absolutely is the quality of design and components that can make or break a dac. The main actual noticable improvements have come from the bang for buck budget realm, where current dacs for 200 sound way better than what 200 could get you in the past imo
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How so? And what amps do you use?
Thinking hard about making the same change.
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I have the rnhp and darkvoice. It’s just an all around improvement. And I could actually tell. I went into it thinking there wouldn’t be much of a difference but I could hear the difference immediately. This is what they mean when you go past the $600/$700 range in dacs. I would say there’s more separation, a little more soundstage, but it’s been a little bit since the A/B, more depth to music and better imaging while at it. I felt the bass tightened up and it was cleaner. That’s more noticeable depending on the headphones. It was a noticeable improvement imo. Coming from the smsl su-8 I was impressed. If I wasn’t I would have looked for something else.
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… for now)
Some AVR’s even have better chip’s than the cheap DAC’s.
Depends of course specs and age when A vs. B, they move so fast forward.
Not judging at all, i also use AVR as one of the possible outputs to headphones.
Like in many cases, also the “Dackers” should just listen to music and not focus on gear.
Well it took me pair of good speakers to “figure” this out but still, its correct.
Also stuff coming out of colon usually is shit, unless it’s piss or other “bodily fluids”.
So DAC’s ain’t shit is probably correct. lol
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Sounds like reasons why to me… Trying to find the differences between DACs just isnt worth it to me. I presently own 3 AMP/DACs:
- xDuoo XD-05
- xDuoo TA-10
- ifi ZEN
I know that, more then likely, I dont have the level of equipment for a Quote higher end/better quote DAC to actually matter. I also dont feel like investing thousands of dollars and who knows how much time sitting there, fighting to tell the differences between one and another.
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I understand your position. Many different flavors out there and some care about dacs and some don’t. Some have more disposable income and some don’t. It’s the nature of the beast.
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I feel like only the fairly high end receivers and cd players (new and old) have dacs that can compete with a standalone imo
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It’s quite impressive that the TA-10 tube even measures like a (great) solid state amp. Not surprised it sounds like one (with the stock tube anyway).
Same. But apparently, under 1000$, or under 500$ even, specifically, Soekris R2Rs, or the Pro-Ject S2 Digital, should give you a taste of what high-end dacs can do (more separation and soundstage) – if you know others to add to this list, let me know, but the list seems small. Even high-end Topping DACs just don’t have that, just sound “clean”.
I’m searching for “a DAC that will make a difference under 500$”, and yeah, there isn’t much. Right now I feel like it’s just a race for measurements numbers you don’t hear. AFAIK you can’t (or at least, people just don’t) measure soundstage and separation coming from a DAC.
But ironically, that’s like, the only reason why you would upgrade (more soundstage and separation just means “the DAC is more resolving”), except bragging rights about 130dB SINAD lol.
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Used there is but slim pickings for new
Drives me nuts, you end up paying more for less performance like the topping d90 where at that price you can get dacs that outperform it sonically
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its an odd time to read this, because I just got a RME ADI-2 DAC (the right one this time) and Im listening to it thinking it sounds not much different to my modi3. I have an order for the BF2 still waiting for delivery and I hope that has some appreciable differences.
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So I would spend a few days exclusively with the dac on one setup, then after that put back on your modi 3 and see what you notice?
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Just more reasons why I tend not to give a shit about measurements. They dont tell the whole story, or they make something look better then it really is.
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Also according to measurements my Samsung Note 3 and the Airist R2R DAC and the Soekris R2Rs should all sound as flat and neutral and natural as ever with no difference whatsoever 
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