@REVERENCE
My description above referred more to a comparison between S400 and Special 40s.
The Dynaudio is simply in a different league than the S400. For example, the S400 tweeter does not come across as naturally, but of course is much more natural compared to for example Klipsch. Thomas (& Stereo - YouTube) describes what I mean by shouty in his review. His impressions are often like mine. The S400 are an ingenious price/performance speaker but of course cannot compete with real high end in comparison. Just as little as the Special 40S could keep up with the Dynaudio Confidence C1.
For my taste the Special 40s need no subwoofer. They made my room vibrate so much that I had to use the provided Port Plugs. But I have to invest more money in absorbation.
If you are looking for deeper bass than the Special 40, you will not get around Floorstanding. Maybe my Endgame the Contour 30 is something for you.
Are you looking for a lot of bass or deep bass? Special 40s definitely have raised bass and play as deep as possible by bookshelf speakers.
Sorry but I have not heard these two speakers yet.
@ValentineLuke
I heard Genelec 8341AM at a HiFi show. The room was far too small and the frequency band was very uneven. I was assured that they had used DSP, but I think they must have made several mistakes and the asymmetrical setup in the room was certainly not beneficial. The richness of detail was impressive, but no speaker for listening to music.
To answer your question regarding the bass, I like bass and ideally want s speaker that can reach the lower 30’s. Some of my music is very bass heavy (Scorn) and my current speakers (down to 50hz) can’t produce a lot of what’s going on.
I find it’s very trying to synthesize reviews as reviewers operate under the premise that anyone reading listens to jazz, classical or audiophile music. Personally I’m not looking for ridiculous amounts of detail. I don’t want to hear the spit in HR’s mouth in live recordings. I’m also not as concerned with accuracy as much as musicality. I want to listen and enjoy rather than dissect music. But that’s me.
I don’t know if I’ll have a way to hear the 40’s but I’ll see if I can. As I said, people fawn over them so originally they were on the list. There’s a local event coming up and I’ll get to hear speakers from Spatial, Zu and Tekton which is exciting.
That’s what I’m looking at too but with the Triode Master upgrade (dipole tweeter and upgraded crossover). I wasn’t considering a floor stander until I started reading about the m3.
My biggest fear about it is I’ll still need a sub.
I like my Focals so I’m with you. I don’t think I could move far enough up the Focal line given my budget to end up with a potential endgame speaker. Especially considering I’d would need s sub
I’d go for the Buchardts or maybe some ProAc speakers. Can’t really recommend the 805d.
When I heard it on a Naim integrated amp it sounded nothing but uncontrolled, bright and weird.
I wanted to get them for many years but after having heard them with many different recordings I’m not really interested in them anymore.
Maybe go active and buy a pair of Genelec monitors?
Also the Elac Adante are maybe worth a try.
Just spit balling here but what if I scrapped my preference for stand mounts and looked at floor standers like the Triton 2+ or something under $4k. Less is better but am looking at something that could potentially be an endgame speaker vs a step up. If that makes sense.
Tight, musical with great bass. Can really jam but is also refined. Preferably comes in white.
So this weekend I got to hear some speakers. Some really impressed (ATC SCM40, Zu Soul Supreme) and some were ok (Tekton DI).
I mainly went because there was to be Spatial speakers there and I’m genuinely curious about the M3 Triode Masters. The Spatials sent were a prototype for a new model and there was some sort of problem with them.
Basically no bass. Outside of that, they filled the room up and it was really nice.
Those ATC speakers were crazy good. The bass was clean and tight and never built up on the room. Very nice.
I’m not sure whether these speakers are even available in the USA, but the Russell K Red 100 standmounts go low, tightly.
They’re some of the “best value” speakers I’ve heard in the UK. ~£1.7 new but can be had ~£800-900 used. Super simple cross overs and a front port tuned to 35hz, amazingly fast and detailed but also really involving. Don’t want to say ‘musical’ but
I’m struggling adjectivewise to make any more sense…
I have decided to semi-retire at 53. In doing so, I knew that I could not bleed money when I am making much less than I am now. So I made some changes with my stereo knowing that “endgame” would not be an option to buy after retirement. My system I used to have had a pair of PSB Stratus Golds in them. I was quite happy with it for nearly 30 years. But we ended up buying a new home and in doing so I now have two new systems for two (new) rooms. The video endgame for me was a set of Monitor Audio Silver Series speakers in a 7.2.4 system. My audio system in another room has the GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers. Both are upgrades from the PSBs, but the Monitor Audio Silver 300s needed the two subs to hit the bass that the ol’ Golds did.
I am thrilled and lucky to be able to have these “endgame” speakers. I am still buying vinyl, CDs, and even an occasional 4K BluRay. The 80s/90s stereo system is going to go to my daughter in all likelihood, with my old bedroom one going to my son.
They can be gotten in the US. I’ve read some reviews and they seem like very good speakers.
Aesthetically I prefer stand mounts but am unsure if any would be endgame. I almost feel like I might regret not going floordtanding even though my Focals have made me happy aside from the bass aspect. They fill the room however. As I mentioned, when this all began I was dead set of Buchardt S400’s.
I’m Interested in the triton 1 but am concerned about the size. As I’ll probably never be able to buy a place I’ll be schlepping them from rental to rental, most likely all by myself. 80lbs a piece will only get heavier as I age. And most likely the places I live will continue to get smaller.
No dealers in my area so not anyway to demo unless someone has a pair and allows me to play a few sides. I feel like they fit the bill on paper however.
A good friend of mine is a great advocate of active speakers. He has Adam S3V for 2.5K USD / piece. The servo-controlled 500Watt woofer comes down to convincing 32hz. I’m not a fan of stereo monitors in HiFi systems, but they’re really good. Sweet midrange, very transparent and extremely detailed treble without the unpleasant aggression that many ribbon tweeters have.
ATC SCM 40 are crazy good. One of the best speakers ever. Enclosed speaker cabinets have a unique bass control that bass reflex can never reach. But in my memory the bass did not go very low, so you must use a subwoofer for your preferences.
Maybe bigger Focal would be the best choice for you, if you like this sound. You will regret not having bought floorstanding speakers with your taste in music. Since I also like electronic music, I bought a pair of ELAC FS247.3 about 3 years ago but have never been happy with them. I have listened to Scorn (spotify Top 10) especially for you before the sale. On my bookshelf speakers, I did not find their songs pleasant or interesting. But on the ELAC it was already an impressive experience, as they come down to about 34hz in small rooms. When I then switched on the closed ELAC SUB 2050 (usually used only for home theater) my house almost collapsed but it was a lot of fun. Nevertheless, it would probably have been even better with a loudspeaker that has a lot of energy at low frequencies even without a subwoofer like Dynaudio Contour 60. Subwoofers always have problems with the integration but can be set and positioned much better in acoustically bad rooms.
ELAC FS247.3
Maybe others can learn from my bad buy. The decision was based mainly on the fact that the speakers are produced in the very first ELAC factory in my hometown Kiel, Germany. I have spent a lot of time and money addressing the problems of these speakers. The aggressive AMT tweeter had to be brought under control by acoustic absorbers, cables and careful Positioning. The very reclined midrange I filled with a mid-heavy Rega Elex-R amplifier. Nevertheless, I was not satisfied with the low-frequency performance. When you hear Dust Clears from Clean Bandit, you’ll notice how mushy they are at the fast start / stop of the bass beats. However, songs like Radiohead’s everything in its right place are impressive, and the really low frequencies create an incredible sense of space that can give you goosebumps combined with the treble resolution. But songs like here she comes again from röyksopp demonstrate the biggest problem of these speakers, they start to shriek when the dynamic range is too big. All these songs completely lose their effect on my Dynaudio bookshelf speakers but I have decided to sell the ELAC. These speakers share the fate of many modern MidFi high-efficiency designs. They do not get along with poorly recorded music at all and prefer heavily polished up rather unrealistic recordings. That’s why I sold the ELAC last week. I want to be able to hear older LPs and enjoy fat bass impact in the recording. I’m going to look for a floorstanding speakers with the sound signature, impact, clarity and power handling of my Dynaudio 1.3 mkII. ATC and Dynaudio Contour are on the list because of their clarity and linearity, but I do not currently have the financial means to do so. I will keep my bookshelf system because of the better spatial representation of 2-way systems.
Well mine are specked ± 2.5 dB (37 Hz - 20 kHz) also with 500W and 12" midrange and with this room they go 28Hz ± 0dB (measured). Still, missing out the very low notes, even with a hefty piece tag. That’s why also have subs, low range then is 14Hz ±0dB (measured).
Would take monitors with 21Hz-20kHz ± 2 dB specs but think none are near the 4k$ mark.
One thing I want to throw out there as it relates to subs.
I’m a single parent and I don’t get lots of time to listen each day. Maybe an hour here or there though it adds up. That said, my trepidation about a sub is that I don’t want to constantly spend time trying to get them integrated into whatever speakers I decide on. When I have an hour or two I want to sit and spin a few sides rather than jerk around with the system. Now don’t misunderstand me, I know any system takes work to set up, but my fear is that my ignorance and impatience will lead to weeks of trying to integrate subs and I’ll never get it right. What happens then is that I get frustrated with things and then stop listening to records altogether.
That said, I enjoy learning and making small tweaks. I don’t have experience with many things and I don’t have friends or aquaintanences to bounce ideas off of or to come over and help. I’ll have to rely on research and google. So I’m intimidated. I admit it.
As I said previously, aesthetically, I love white bookshelf speakers with black drivers and black stands. So I’m attracted to that just like what German Power posted up thread. Love it. But I’m afraid I’ll never get integration that I’m after though not for lack of effort. Can I get the sub to integrate spinning both Napalm Death and Miles Davis? I don’t know.
Now from my list, the Tritons and Kismets won’t need a sub. But the spatials might need subs for the bottom register which many say is super easy to integrate.
So that’s where my push back comes when subs are mentioned.
I can totally understand your dislike of subwoofers. The integration never succeeds and there is always a lack of punch. I could only achieve an acceptable result with a subwoofer coupled via the loudspeaker cables which helps below 45hz. All this digital garbage gets on my nerves and I had to experiment with the phase and the delay forever. In addition, the majority of the subwoofers were built for home cinema and not for music. It is therefore very unlikely that I will buy another subwoofer.
There are many types of speakers, but they can’t reinvent the wheel every day. It is a simple physical limit to how much stroke a single 6 or 7 inch driver can produce without distorting the upper frequency range. If they exceed these limits, they explode like Buchart S300. Bookshelf speakers have their limits and it hasn’t really changed in the last 20 years. Speakers like the S400 have a lot of power in the 60 to 50hz range but only come down to (+/- 3dB) 47 because the cabinet is very small and the driver has only 6 inches. The larger Special Forty reaches its limit of linearity at 41 Hz (+/- 3dB) with its 6.7 inches, but has less energy in the 60 to 50 range. It’s always a give and take.
If you want more, there are only floorstanding speakers left as a solution. Many elegant 2.5 way systems offer stable and powerful 30hz performance.
Thank you very much. Somehow I always come back to this kind of system. Even though I always buy and sell a lot of used old equipment to experiment with.
Bookshelfs and Vinyl always keep a place in my heart to enjoy music. But I also always try to keep a 2nd LoFi system with massive old floorstanding loudspeakers to really let the whole neighborhood participate in my rock and roll excursions.
ATC SCM19 bookshelfs are incredibly good, but have nothing below 60hz due to their closed construction. Nevertheless, closed cabinets outperform the bass of all other designsin the range of 90 to 65hz. I may exaggerate a bit, but closed cabinets have a beautiful character.
