Alright I want to give my thoughts in regard to competitive gaming on 4 Dekoni pads that I bought for my Beyerdynamic DT 177X Go. Currently I own the Velour, Fenestrated Sheepskin, Suede, and normal Sheepskin. I’m interested in getting the Hybrids but looking at the DT 1990 fr curves on the Dekoni website, it seems they lean more on the “fun” side.
Okay so on to the “review”. I tested these pads using Overwatch’s replay system. This is great because you can hear the exact same set of sounds over and over again using in-game audio. I also reviewed these four pads in 2 waves. The first wave was to determine if they were good for competitive and the second wave was to determine the best of the best.
For the first wave, I spent a couple hours swapping between the 4. Luckily for me, it was pretty easy. The Velour and Fenestrated were definitely “footstep” pads and the Suedes and normal Sheepskin pads were more casual/fun pads, respectively.
For the next wave, I spent a few hours swapping back and forth between the Velours and Fenestrated Sheepskin.
Firstly, the Velours have the leanest bass. In short, they provide the best, “undistracted by bass” footsteps between the two pads. Another advantage is the DT 177X gain better imaging from these pads (but not by much). Wait so are these the best pads for competitive? Review over? Well no. Although the Velours do provide these advantages, they come at a cost. Clarity and sound separation is lost to the overly bright highs. In best, I could describe them as “muddy highs” because as soon as the teamfight starts and bullets are flying and explosions are going off, you can’t tell what from what. All the advantages previously gained are lost. Technically yes, in a 1v1 situation, before the “real fight”, when everything is quiet, you could technically hear approaching footsteps slightly sooner, but when the teamfight starts that’s where the advantages stop.
The Fenestrated Sheepskins don’t have this problem. They fix the muddiness by smoothing out the highs and separating the sounds out a bit. But aren’t they worse for competitive? Footsteps and imaging is king. Well, not all the time. See the Fenestrated still make the “footsteps category”, they still have the analytical highs of the T1 drivers. They just provide clarity and calm in a shitstorm that the Velours can never provide and actually do the exact opposite of.
So which do I prefer? Well tldr, the Velours may be better in very handpicked situations, but the Fenestrated Sheepskins are better almost always. So I go with the fenestrated.
Just now got around to reading this… Honestly I ended up using Perforated suedes from zmf, fenestrated are very good too, velours are good but they tend to really brighten things up and lean out the bass like mentioned, and lastly hybrids are nice in some scenarios… Though for competitives? I definitely found that the perf suede seems to be the most balanced out for competitive gaming… velour is best for larger fps and footstep placement and fenestrated had a bit more balance and warmth too it probably due to the fact its a leather based material instead.
While I don’t particularly recommend T1 or 177x for competitives… they are still solid choicse for me especially pad swapping with them which is quite lovely in my opinion… I love my suedes for my T1 they sound amazing and perform exceptionally well
I may be in sort of the minority here, but I think if someone wanted a truly competitive headphone it’d be closed or noise cancelling of some sort. This would allow them to stay in tune with the game sounds even when the pc fans rev up, keyboard clicks are clicking, and their own yelled callouts fill the room.
That’s why I love the 177x, particularly with pad swapping.
I’m not so familiar with ZMF’s lineup of pads. I assume you’re talking about their Universe set of pads, right?
Yep, Universe perforated suedes. I thought it odd at first but they aren’t bad at all.
well technically a closed back is more the regular tourney standard… granted it also depends on personal preference and really if you need that room isolation… your not going to get that open backed 360 degree field of sound around your head that a open back has with a closed back since they center the sounds around to the center of your head. Naturally open backs are better but again… it boils to preferences…
well generally your gonna hear yourself in most cases for starters. As for the keyboard clicks depends on the keyboard and the sound of the game… most of the time with open backs and keyboard you won’t really hear the keys less you have an obnoxiously loud keyboard. Same for the fans it depends where the pc is sitting… I mean, less you have a jet sounding computer which not quite sure why in the world you would buy such loud fans lol. I barily if ever even hear my pc or keyboard clacks and I have sat with sundara which is extremely opened up.
In this case, it does come down to preference. I’m coming from an Audio Technica AD700 and an AKG K702 and the issues I listed were things I had to deal with. I’m not saying that those headphones did not have amazing sound for competitive. But being able to hear everything outside of the game did influence my next purchase.
probably a good idea to shop around… they are pretty expensive considering just being pads.
ah well alright then yeah. If I had a whole bunch of noise outside my headphone bugging me I would definitely go to closed as well lol. I grew up with closed for years
hmm, no. They scale slightly but nothing completely out of left field to replace something like a k702 it’s still a gaming headset with a relatively average soundstage with a more neutral sound as per the norm with sennheisers while it’s good for general use all around in comparison to the k702 it has massive soundstage ever so slight imaging issues, raised highs, recessed bass. AD700x is cheaper than the pc37x has a larger soundstage and has issues with seperation in this regard I would say I would pick a pc37x over it but only due to the issues with comfort and seperation on the ad700x. 177x GO is a different story entirely this is not a competitive headphone its far too bassy however stating a pc37x is better musically and for gaming? no not even. Large soundstage for being closed, closed back, multiple pads allowing a bit more flexibility in the sound, amazing comfort, portability due to low ohms, good placements, good seperation, is a very well rounded headphone and is more of a U signature while pc37x is more of a neutral signature.
Most headphones tend to scale up when you pair them to better equipment asgard 3 is quite a special amp and can really bring out a lot of character in headphone. In Sennheisers case not all their lineup is like that to where they scale upwards. 6xx is a good example as it definitely changes pretty drastic especially when paired to tubes however pc37x not so much outside of the usual equalization or tube pairing sounds
as for the fact of it being a unique scaling quality to just Sennheiser? DT 880 over there scales just as much if not more in a lot of cases as does beyers T1
I should add of course this is my subjective point of view and it also will really depend on a persons preference
The K702 do have vastly superior soundstage but I’ve never been a fan of its imaging and while the PC37X did have average soundstage it’s imaging was OK.
What is improved for the PC37X while on the schiit stack is the separation and distinction of sounds, of course still below the K702. In summation, it’s not that it surpassed my other more expensive headphones, it just sort of joined their ranks as the best all-arounder. All technicalities are vastly improved except it’s ability to resolve detail. That’s the only thing reminding you it’s not a $400 headphone.
Very similar experience as the koss kph30i
I bought a used pair of original ad700s and they don’t have the same issues with comfort as the newer models. I have a pair of ad900x to compare.
Yes, it is bassy with the two included pads. While it’s not greater in pure competitive sound when compared to open back options, pad swapping closes the gap ever so slightly.
oh Definitely agreed here. I like the well rounded nature of the pc37x I just feel k702 may be better for musicality but it may be my preference in that regard.
Yeah, it’s one of the best gaming headset’s on the market in my opinion especially for someone on a budget where is why I have the cooler master on here as a closed back good alternative. PC37x is a very good all rounder with really very little drawbacks considering it’s price tag it’s just not the -most ideal- for competitive gaming due to no raised upper mids or treblethat isn’t to say it can’t work though it works in pretty much any scenario or genre imo.
lol that headphone has no business costing as cheap as it is considering how good it sounds though I use ksc75 modified to the porta pro headband instead.
Well, I say comfort due to the old models but also due to that wing system. It’s just not very good in my opinion mind you if you go to the ad1000x the build quality is better and it’s not -as- bad but I seriously hated that wing system just wasn’t comfortable and old ad700x just screams cheap headphone due to build quality… it doesn’t come close to beyerdynamics build quality or Sennheiser in that regard and AKG with it’s k series have a similar sound signature due those ad series and yet have a better comfort and build quality in my opinion.
I mean, I love the headphone to death it’s one of my favorite closed backs, However since I didn’t need a closed back I switched them out for the Aeons which are similar in signature but open back and sound better due to shear scaling the amount they change upon going to liquid plat balanced is crazy amazing and they sound incredible. Though I have open x so it’s more neutral RT is the bassier one. I think one thing though to remember with this guide is I wrote it up to be the most -ideal- in most cases… so all -rounder daily drivers I skipped most of them… otherwise I would guaranteed have to google doc this thing as there would be at least like 20 more headphones on here
In an ideal world, I’d only have one pure analytical closed back for comp and the rest would be standout open backs. I have the T60RP Argons coming in… 11 more weeks lol So i have that to wait for.
My analytical headphone trophy goes to my 1990 hands down right now. That headphone loves to rip apart the sound and point out bad portions of music. Haven’t really had a true bright analytical closed back in house except maybe the 1770s but that’s kind of pushin it. T60RP argons I think were supposed to be like polar opposite to the dark t50rp right? It sounds interesting.
Hi @Falenkor have you tried the dt880 pro (250ohm)? I know people say the 600 ohm is better. But, I cannot find the 600ohm anywhere. I like the tight clamp the pro lineup of the beyers.
I’m a beyer fan as you. I have the t1.2nd, dt1990 and tygr at the moment.
Edit: I used to have the dt800 600ohm all black edition, sold it by mistake.
I have indeed. I did feel the 600 ohm was a bit more refined… treble sounded smoother more detailed. However, the headphone has lacking fullness / body to it’s sound with that brightness which causes me to not like the headphone personally. I preferred the 1990 with A pads completely over the 880 though I know others who definitely prefer the sound of the 880. Currently, I am in the process of sitting down with the 880 and a Darkvoice tube amp whenevr I actually get some time to sit down and give it a good listen, supposed to help with that lacking body.
ah yeah I think the black version looks better however, the interesting thing is that the 250 ohm limited edition black actually has a different tuning… its fairly similar to like a mix between 880 and 990 which I found odd after having sat with it.
I’m completely new here but I will say I’ve wasted more money on sub $50 headphones every year or 2 for about the last 22 years which probably totaling around $600 at this point. About 6 years ago I bought a an Asus Xonar DG because I made the mistake of trying to save money on a motherboard and CPU based on some aligning opinions of terrible people who thought AMD’s FX processors were good value for money. I’ve gotten sick of all of it and I’ve grown to be willing to spend more and I’m done buying $100-$300 CPUs and sub $300 motherboards and sub $600 graphics cards.
A couple years ago I bought some Audio-Technica M40X’s and they were a step up in sound quality but of course those broke, kind of the same story as my $50 headphones. I’m done with $100 and under headphones. I’ve been looking at headphones for the past 3 weeks and obviously I’m here now. I’m done with closed-back headphones and it seems maybe I should have bought the Philips SHP9500 instead of the M40X but I’m passed that now.
I’m hesitant about the AKG’s because I’ve had the Samson/Superlux which are a similar design. I’ve looked at the Sennheiser HD 58X and the Beyerdynamic dt 990’s, and then I started comparing the 990’s and the 880’s and I’ve seen what DMS & Z and others have said about the 600 ohm 880’s. At first I was hesitant to go up to $200 but I wasn’t quite looking to buy an external amp yet and I’m certainly not at the point of buying a JDS Labs Element II and the dt 880’s. As far as I can tell the best option based on the soundstage and directional imaging, build quality and comfort are the TYGR 300R’s as a step below the 600ohm dt 880’s but close to those and maybe about 75% of the 1990’s. The only problem is the TYGR’s aren’t in stock so now I’m wondering what competes with the TYGR’s? Does anything even exist that competes with them at $200 and under or do you have to go up market to the $250 range to find something?
They aren’t built the most sturdy but they do have a good sound quality if you change the pads. I use them myself for portable when I don’t feel like taking my modified KSC75’s out.
Build quality is pretty weak, but the headphone shp9500 is pretty modification friendly quite nice in my opinion.
It’s a fantastic headphone for sure and definitely strikes above it’s price point however, the ideology of needing a extremely powerful amp to drive them to proper levels such as an emotiva that’s modded with jumpers is ludicrous. You can literally go grab a Liquid spark from $70 - $100 and drive them with power to spare just fine and they will sound good. The thing about the 600 ohm beyers is they gain better sound quality depending on what you pair them with and the changes tend to vary wildly. 880 over there seems to benefit extremely well to tube amps and it really fills out it’s bass and brings warmth to the vocals.
In terms of imaging and soundstage? No not really to my knowledge can compete with it. You don’t tend to find that kind of presentation alongside laser imaging and a soundstage as big as a k7xx in the $200 range which is what makes it a bit unique and harder to find as it sells out fast. However, Tygrs are well rounded and bassy they do not have the Ideal signature for competitive they are fantastic however for someone with a treble sensitivity. Beyerdynamics brand seems to consistently punch out headphones with phenomenal imaging and soundstage however almost all their headphones are of the brighter frequencies.
What was crazier is that the tygrs were like $175 at a earlier point which is just absurd considering what they are capable of. I would say send beyer a message as they don’t seem to just randomly place the tygrs as “available” all the time and others have managed to get the headphone upon sending them a direct message. Otherwise your best bet in the $200 range would be the DT 880. You can snag a DT 880 at max $200 but you need an amp to drive it. However, it also doesn’t need to be in 600 ohms as 250 ohms(250 ohms are cheaper you can get these for like $125) is plenty good as well just not -as- detailed(potentially due to less brightness) or as potentially impactful in the bass really up to you on that regard.
Marketing wise to get better than a Tygr… I would probably say in the $400 region actually to gain better as then you start getting the Focals and other beyers
Based on the word of Joshua_g, mh751 will be my choice for comp
But for casual what should I pick?
Monoprice retros is highly praised by Zeos but I don’t know if mid and treble is good enough cuz I play some rpg so I need a good character vocal and soundtrack
Is it good?
Compare them to CAL, X2HR, He4xx only for casual gaming and music?
Don’t want to spend more than $150
Note: tygr300r is 300 buck in my country
Honestly it’s not that I’m not willing to spend more, I’d probably buy the dt 880’s and a $300 stack and it wouldn’t be unreasonable to me relative to the cost to build the PC it’s connecting to just because my mindset has changed. I just wasn’t prepared to spend $500 on audio right now, it’s my own fault for even looking lol. On the upside I’m glad I didn’t just pull the trigger on the Fidelio X2HR’s or the dt 990’s I think I probably would have had buyer’s remorse if I’d missed out on the TYGR’s or the 880’s just because of $50 or $100. I’m still curious what the 600 ohm dt 880’s sound like in person which mean I’m probably going to buy it at some point but I can’t really get over the value and simplicity of the TYGR’s for the money even if they are $25 more now. The TYGR’s seem to deserve a buy. The only things I dislike is that the cable is routed through the headband instead of to each ear cup and aren’t detachable, and that they’re only available at retail bundled with the FOX mic when you can find it.
You mean the fact that spending so much on just a competitive gaming headphone is a bit absurd and really impractical? Least that’s how I took it which I do tend to agree. MH751 isn’t bad at all granted I prefer a shp9500 pad swapped personally.
Depends on what signature your looking for?
I have one, imaging is I want to say decent, soundstage is large, bass is rather full though I think it was a bit muddy personally. Not at all bad for just like a $30(you can actually get them for $20 as I paid I think it was $18 for mine) just don’t expect a ton of quality out of them. My biggest complaint out of them was definitely comfort as the clamp was hefty and the pads suck pretty bad in my opinion… switch those out and it’s not bad whatsoever granted I wouldn’t go out of my way to say it has any sort of “quality” of sound as say an audeze or something but still quite nice.
I think this would definitely depend on what your looking for. I personally like the CAL more than the retros(unless you consider comfort) but that’s a personal thing for me it’s another one I highly recommend a pad swap too granted I would take the Tygrs or X2HR any day of the weak over those two. He4xx is nice and all but I just wasn’t the biggest fan of it kind of dark without much bass… I felt it was a bit boring for just casual use doesn’t sound bad in my opinoin just rather boring and I sooner picked up a 58x jubilee over it. Tygrs and X2hr are very warm bassy headphones… x2hr has a bit sloppier bass it’s not as tight and can be a bit muddy but its very smooth and surprisingly padded so heavily its very pillowy for comfort though this can, from my experience, cause you to have more heat build up meanwhile tygr builds up more the bass is tightened the imaging is laser accurate as is the soundstage tygr is one of those I would say is good for both styles of gaming more so if you are 1. on a budget and 2. have a treble sensitivity or just aren’t a fan of brighter headphones I would still say the X2HR is a good alternative if you can’t get a Tygr despite the sound being a bit sloppier and not as good in the imaging department however, if you preferred a darker bassier sound that the tyger somewhat has then I would immediately point to the Nighthawk Carbons like I did with @tglodjo who in turn apparently loves the headphone to death. granted the headphone is discontinued and hard as hell to find in some cases.
In that order, it would depend on 1 your sound preference and 2 your budget you feel comfortable with. If you want the better cheap option, I would say probably the retros as they had bigger ear cups than the CAL as CAL over there uses oval ear cups that are the same size as the original hyperx cloud which are rather small, people with big ears like me have issues with it least I do personally even post pad swap it’s annoying so I would take a retro over the CAL.
If you want what I think would be the better sounding of that lineup? X2HR
This is actually what happened to me as I was constantly buying cheap things then got a taste of the more expensive and better items, going into audio I got a taste of good headphones thanks to @RiceGuru who introduced me to the Beyerdynamic DT 990(first real good headphone, first bright headphone, and first beyerdynamic) of which I completely fell in love with, once I resolved the treble problem I had originally.
So, someone newer to audio like that I definitely would say do not write off a 990 or x2hr. x2hr may be a bit sloppier than the tygr but it’s still what I would consider a very solid alternative to the tygrs as they share a signature with each other however, I would call the Tygrs a upgrade in sound quality. 990s on the other hand are a very unique headphone but only for those who can stand that brightness and appreciate it it’s fantastic for orchestra, rap, edm, electronic and other music genres that can really put that brightness and bass to use it’s not so great with vocality like the dt 880 which is the more neutral mid centric headphone.
To me, dt 880 600 ohm is something unique. I haven’t found another headphone truely similar to it. I am not the biggest fan personally as I feel the bass sounds lacking it just doesn’t seem full and sounds rather hollow which bothers me personally and I don’t get that from the Tygr, 1990, T1, or 990. Granted 880s are extremely detailed in their 600 ohms and actually become very revealing where it can pick apart some songs and their errors in creation. I stopped using the DT 880 once I bought the 1990 and especially after I bought the T1 as I feel they both are just in general a straight upgrade in sound quality, I would hope so though considering their price tags.
Tygr on the other hand has a signature similar to quite the many headphones however, most of those headphones don’t have a speaker presentation with that big of a soundstage, that level of detail, alongside such crazy imaging. Beyerdynamic really hit that one out of the park and I hope to see an upgraded variant to the Tygr in the near future.
The only way to find it by itself is through a 3rd party seller, good luck finding that one though so far most people don’t give the tygrs up for sale, or directly from Beyerdynamic through their store which last time I messaged beyer about them they said anytime they get them they quite literally fly off the shelf and back out of stock. You can get them but you definitely need to message them asking for an order though it could take up to a month as they have to make more. However, due to covid things are slow. They are even having trouble keeping the 600 ohm dt 880 in stock right now I can barily find it anywhere currently.
As for the cable? Simple fix. You can mod the original beyers 770/880/990 to be balanced or detachable or you can pay someone else to do it as some people offer that service however you can do that same modification, as the housing is the same way, to the Tygrs.
Edit: For both of you one of the reasons I side with the X2HR despite it sounding so relatively loose and being sloppier than a Tygr is the fact that it’s just generally versatile… You can indeed change the pads however it can be a bit of a pain in some cases unlike the shp9500. You can turn them wireless through a 3.5mm bluetooth dongle, you can use a vmoda boom pro, and you can turn them into a closed back if you want to get into modifications. Granted you can mod the tygr to be 3.5mm gaining the same wireless or v moda compatibility however, it requires much more work to gain this
The price on the X2HR may plummet a bit here soon as X3 is about to land everywhere, it’s already in china
I’m comparing the ATH AD700x and the Beyerdynamic DT 880 right now. What I’m getting from the post is that you would prefer the 880’s because of better imaging and build quality, is that right?
Also could you recommend a Dac/Amp combo which would be strong enough to handle the 880’s with 600 Ohm?