Thanks for the detailed reply, good information.
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Your welcome!
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I have been tempted many time to buy the ADX 5000’s, but afraid it will be too thin on the low end but would probably be a great compliment to the D8000 Pros in house…
Alex
I would agree, although on the right amp it can be pretty neutral if you have something to fill out the low end a bit. But yes it definitely doesn’t have bass like the d8kp
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Me listening to the Final D8Kpro
I’ve less than 16 hours total, some notes I’ve managed to scratch out in between adding more tracks to the queue
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Outstanding bass response and tone, mids are full with great clarity throughout, no uncomfortable treble peaks – detailed smooth and clear
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Highly resolving still punchy and fun
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Timbre is great, Nice Texture - drums especially sound very real to me – the best (?)
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Great speed and dynamics attack and decay soft to loud to soft
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Great at imaging, Stage is wide (wide enough) nothing is crowded or closed in, separation is outstanding even when the music is busy/complex
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I need to buy my own, what can I sell?
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Yes the D8000 Pros are exceptional often overlooked headphones…I sold alot of stuff to buy these…three days after getting these I sold my Hedds, Empys and Focal Clear Mgs…that good here…
got mine thru Todd the Vinyl Junkie in Montana…great honest guy.
Alex
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D8000: Pro vs OG
My Gear Preferences
I think its important to understand someone's tastes to truly understand how they describe a headphone. I will start by saying I am not a stickler for harman. Instead I prefer what I would refer to as a "fairly balanced signature". This means that bass boost vs flat and bright vs dark treble dont really matter to me so long as the sections are balanced within themselves and flow together without sounding disjointed. The three tonal dislikes I have are: lack of sub bass extension, thin mids, and uneven treble (I get some massive fatigue issues with some treble tunings but it doesn't seem to be tied to bright/dark).Outside of tonality I pretty highly value timbre (and especially timbre of horns/wood winds) and reproduction of room reverb. While I raw detail retrieval isn’t the dead top of my list, I do highly value it and don’t tend to use headphones below TOTL levels of it regardless of my love for anything/everything else about them. Lastly, stage size doesn’t play a particular role in my enjoyment of a can (so long as its not miniscule at least) but separation and layering absolutely do.
Lastly, I listen quite soft. I generally turn cans up to where they sound best, but I do tend to prefer cans that play well at my extremely low listening levels of mid 50dB peaks (yes, you read that right) over cans that need to be louder. Luckily most stuff has a pretty even playing field here as the only two cans I have found that perform exceptionally at these volumes are LCD-R and Soli P. Not even utopia likes playing that low. Everything else gets cranked till it sounds great (typically average of ~70-75dB)
As for music I listen to, its honestly just about everything. I am not a massive fan of trap/harder rap but do have some in my library anyways. My most listened to genres are likely older jazz (everything from big band/bebop to rat pack/fitzgerald), Lofi (of basically any kind be it acoustic cafe jazz or hiphop), neo-soul (Saela Sue/Winehouse/Raphael Saadiq), and finaly modern electronic rock (think anything between synthwave and Tasha Sultan)
So just off the bat, the D8000 and D8000 Pro are very very different headphones. It is to the point that if they didnt come in the same chassis you couldn’t possibly guess they were related to each other. Because I feel the Pros are better known in the west I will start with them.
D8000 Pro
Overall a well balanced true TOTL can with extraordinary texture that is both source transparent and one of the most source forgiving TOTL cans I have used (they generally sound better on SS than tubes IMO but they are yet to really not play well with something). They are quite neutral with good extension and are easy to run. IMO the incredible texture they offer while not having any gret misgivings absolutely allows them to compete with the greats such as Susava, Utopia, and Solitaire P.
Sound Break Down
Tonality: Overall the Pros are a very neutral can. Well extended with ever so slightly thin mids (though significantly more tonally dense than hifiman), I personally think the only tonal ‘misstep’ (if you can even call it that when compared to the competition) is that the treble can get slightly hot on some setups (though I still find them less fatiguing than susvara or utopia).
Stage: I would consider them fairly middle of the road. While not grand and expansive (like HD800S or Solitaire P) they also aren’t exceptionally narrow (Diana V2 with a full seal) and have very solid depth (not quite as deep as DV2 but I would put it similar to utopia).
Detail: This is also quite middle of the road (for a TOTL can). A comfortable competitor to Utopia and a step above DV2 on most setups, but still half a step behind something like susvara I find it absolutely within the range of TOTL cans but not the outright champ.
Timbre: Once again I find the Pros very middle of the road. They don’t have shocking timbre like susvara or raal but they also don’t have major misgivings with it like Utopia and Solitaire P.
Texture: IMO, this is where the pros truly stand out. Even amongst heavyweights like susvara and utopia it is truly unrivaled by anything else I’ve ever owned.
And yes, I know many will not like the usage of this term due to it being so hard to quantify. Its not detail or timbre, but it somehow incorporates both. Honestly, I am not going to do a good job explaining what texture is so I will leave that to someone else. Ultimately though, I think most with TOTL experience will at least know what I am referring to
Honestly, I do absolutely have cans I subjectively prefer over the Pros, but I still don’t see them leaving my collection any time soon anyways. Their absurd source transparency and general forgivingness make them excellent for evaluating gear. Pair this with texture I haven’t even found in susvara and I think they make a lot of sense to keep around. My personal misgivings with the Pros are pretty minimal if I am honest. I would like a bit more body in the mids and these cans dont sound their best at lower volumes (mids can get even thinner and the treble peak becomes more prominent), but they are honestly in my top 5 for low level play as is anyways.
D8000 (OG)
Laid back, vast, and rich the D8000s truly nail emotion within music. Honestly, the D8000s have what may be the best tuning I’ve heard. Think Empy but bigger stage, better usage of the stage and no fatigue, all while having better technical performance to boot. People often say that the Pros sound like dynamic drivers, and I do get where they are coming from, but IMO the D8000s sound far far more like dynamics than the pros (and I find that a very good thing). Source wise they arent as agnostic as the Pros but they are still fairly forgiving and tube excellently.
Sound Break Down
I ran out of time to write this section today. Ill bump the post when I get a chance to do it (hopefully by the end of the week? but not positive)
Tonality:
Stage:
Detail:
Timbre:
Texture:
If I am completely honest, my entire personal misgivings with the D8000s is just that I am massively spoiled from a technical perspective. With similar detail and separation as cans such as Arya/Clear/etc, I just find myself looking for a bit more. In areas such as organicness/liquidity, texture, timbre, and dynamics I do think that the D8000 pulls ahead of these cans enough to be completely justifiable (at least at its used costs), but the loss of detail is simply past my personal level of acceptance when comparing to cans such as utopia, Susvara, Solitaire P, and even the Pros themselves.
Comparison
This is just going to be a rough comparison between the cans. If you would like me to add anything to it specifically just ask.
| Category | Ranking |
|---|---|
| Tonality | Subjective, but I prefer OG |
| Stage Width | OG >>> Pro |
| Stage Depth | OG << Pro |
| Detail | OG <<< Pro |
| Timbre | OG > Pro |
| Texture | OG < Pro |
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Nice writeup, I think you did a wonderful job of differentiating the two. Even though I have not heard the non-Pro personally, from how accurately you described the D8K Pro I feel I now know the non-Pro too.
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I appreciate the praise! I wish I had the time time today to really break down the OG sound today but I just flat out ran out of time today.
The D8000 Pros do sound better to me at louder levels…have to be careful with this and hearing damage…
They were designed to be used with louder sound levels…if the listening environment is really quiet, like early in the AM or PM the lower level listening is still decent…but these cans want to be played loud IMO.
At times I am shocked at how dynamic transients are presented.
I sold my Empys after having the Pros for three days…there was no hesitation selling the Empys…no regrets here.
The ONLY thing for me that is a slight negative is the weight and fit on my head.
I have to have the headband fully closed and they slightly droop on my head, feels like the clamping force could be a tad stronger for me.
That said I wrap a small towel / cloth around the headband and this make the fit very good for me.
I listen with these for hours and havent found them to be ho-hum or that newness worn off…still are the best cans I have used. Yes I have used Susvaras and lots of other cans…all good, but these are my go-to standards for all kinds of music.
Lovely, just lovely cans…
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I am interested in the Final D8000 Pro, but do not want to upgrade my current gear. My current desktop setups are the RME ADI-2 DAC FS Amp/DAC combo, and a Schiit stack that consists of the Valhalla and Modius. Should I get this or the regular D8000?
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You technically could be fine with the gear you have although you would notice significant improvement moving up. In terms of going for a pro vs non pro that would really come down to the signature you are after and what sonic aspects you want to prioritize imo, I personally prefer the pro, but I can see why others may like the non pro as well
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I already have headphones with solid bass like the LCD-X, Z1R, and Liric. I am looking for something different. I want to have a diverse selection of ice cream for my ears in my collection.
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So I think both the d8000 and the pro are bass focused, but in different ways. The non pro is a much more rounded and rich focus being dense, weighty, and more slammy, where the pro is more clean and linear being more focused on resolution, texture, and speed but still pretty organic in the low end. Overall signature and tonality wise the non pro is more organic and more what I’d just consider warmer and slightly less extended on each end whereas the pro is cleaner and better extended but slightly dipped in the midrange perhaps u shaped a bit. The non pro is smoother and softer and the pro is a bit harder edged although neither of them are overly soft or harder edged. Generally the pro just is more technically capable across the board in things like dynamics, timbre, resolution, speed and separation, texture, etc. Stage and presentation wise the non pro is more width focused than depth where as the pro is more depth over width, the pro is more spatially accurate. The non pro is more forgiving of music although actually might be a bit more pairing picky as some of the warmer sources can sometimes overwhelm balance whereas the pro doesn’t seem to be as picky in pairing (although the pro does scale more than the non pro). And so on, honestly I think either would be reasonably different from what you have, if I had to say similarity to what you have, the pro is more in the vein of the lcd x and the non pro is more in the vein of the z1r. Not heard the liric so no idea how that sounds
The nice thing is that either can isn’t going to be as picky as some of the other headphone options in their price point (things from let’s say hifiman, abyss, focal, audio technica, etc), but I’d still really consider upping your sources if you get one in to really take advantage of what they have to offer, a headphone can only be as good as what it’s given (but even on your current chain it should be a step up from what you already have, especially the pro)
I guess the question would really come down to what sorta different you are looking for, there’s a lot of potential options for headphones in this price range, and all of them are going to be fairly different from each other, so potentially narrowing down your range of what you are looking for/having some priorities would be helpful
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I found myself interested in the Final D8000 Pro, Meze Elite, and Focal Utopia. Based on reviews they all seem up my ally and I want to eventually own all three. However I am trying to figure out which one to get first.
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Sounds like a solid lineup. I will warn you that the utopia will be very lackluster on your current chain, you might find it fairly disappointing for the price unless you put a fair amount more into the chain, very very picky headphones. But it would be pretty different from anything you own and would go well along with a final imo (they actually tend to pair well with similar amps so that’s an added bonus)
The meze is for the most part fine on whatever source wise. I’ve only heard the empy and not the elite, but I personally thought that the empy was fairly overpriced for what it was from a technical perspective, sure it was forgiving, a more consumer warmer casual tuning, and was impactful and grander sounding, it really lacked overall technical performance for the price leading it to be a fairly not great value even used, so I might personally suggest looking into something different, but I do know some people who really like that can (I’m just absolutely not one of them lol). Some good alternatives to look into there would honestly kinda be the regular d8000 lol, but outside of that I think the audeze lcd 24 somewhat goes for similar goals but is a lot more capable for the money you can find them used for, the diana v2 is also a good alternative although it’s not as forgiving as the d8k or 24. If the empy has come down in price more used or the elite is a huge technical step forward I can see them being worthwhile, but honestly in current state I can’t say they are something I’d personally consider unless you can get a killer deal on them and aren’t really focusing on value (build and comfort is awesome though)
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What would be the most bang per buck Amp and DAC upgrade to get good use out of the Utopia?
Honestly I think the value sweet spot for that headphone:
On the tube side:
eddie current studio b
lta mz3
On the solid state side:
mass kobo 433
ecp dsha l3f
pass hpa-1
Look used for all this stuff (although most all of these amps are highly regarded and don’t really drop much used outside of the hpa-1 which halfs it’s value), these would really be my main picks, with the dac depending on what you are after. But really I think those amps are the point where you are really taking advantage of the utopia without going too far, so it’s really more a sweet spot than bang for buck but it could just end up meaning the same thing lol. Although all of those are generally more neutral than not leaning pairings, if you want to overall shift the signature of the utopia I’d have different picks but personally those would be what I’d really consider if I wanted to maximize that headphone (you can go further, but it’s going to be a lot more expensive to get a significant upgrade from those amps)
If you had to keep it around 1.5k range, I’d look for a used bryston bha-1, quicksilver headphone amp, or used violectric v281. I also think a burson soloist 3xp + supercharger does an admirable job. These are great and will def showcase what the headphone is good at, but I think it doesn’t really show off what the headphone can really do but still enough to be worthwhile. I wouldn’t go much lower than these.
If you want more info on these amps and comparisons and what dac you might pair with let me know. Also almost all of these pair well with the d8kp as well (mainly the eddie current, mass kobo, pass, and also the bryston and quicksilver)
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So long as the Amp and DAC do not cost more than the Utopia itself I won’t complain.
Well, unfortunately that’s kinda where you want to be imo, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to spend 2-3x the cost of that headphone on source gear alone, it’s something that can really scale and showcase that further investment. When you get to headphones of that level that’s really not unusual. You don’t have to go that high of course, but I would say it’s worthwhile to do that at some point
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