First audio setup - looking for highest detail

Headphones Headphone Discussion / Help
1

Hi,

So I’m looking to purchase my first proper audio setup. I have just had IEMs up till now, a custom pair and a set of ER4XRs and I love them both, but I’m under the impression that IEMs cannot have the same sound quality, soundstage and imaging potential as a full size headphone so that’s what I’m looking into now

I’ve demoed quite a few, all of which were done on the Sennheiser HDV 820 amp

Focal clear
Arya
LCD 2 Classic
Sundara
HD800/ HD800s

I initially tried the Sundara because I was recommended to work my way up, but although it wasn’t a bad sound, I wasn’t ‘wowed’ at all, and I’m looking for something that’s above the quality of what I’ve already heard.

So I instantly put on the Arya after about 30mins of the Sundara to see the difference, and there was a big difference to the extent I started laughing and I thought this is what I needed, so I tried the HD800s just to compare (I’d heard it previously)

Now in comparison to the Arya, the HD800s sounded like it it was forcing me to focus on the details whereas the Arya was like playing in the background, like it was soft and while the detail was there, I sort of had to close my eyes and focus on it

I’ve never heard anyone say that before, so I’m assuming this is a situation where I had to up the gain setting or something, because I didn’t do that. The Arya was the only one of all these headphones were I felt like this. It sounded like the music was happening waayy too far away from me. I tested the LCD just because it was a planar and I wanted to know if that was what was going on, but the LCD didn’t sound far away at all.

I wanted to know if that was just my mistake or do they really sound like that? Because otherwise they were perfect, but this is a big deal breaker for me. I want the details in my face. I’m not looking for anything soft or something to listen to before bed, which is what the Aryas sounded like. Was I just supposed to change the gain switch? I had the HD800s on mid knob volume, and I put the Aryas a bit more to like 2o clock

Now onto the other headphones, I was really only interested in the comparison between HD800s and Arya regardless of how everything sounded because of what I had been described on the internet as their capabilities. They both sound like what I’m looking for as someone who primarily listens to orchestral music and I’m also a gamer, and judging by what I heard of the Sundara, this is the price range I should be looking at.

I listen to all kinds of music, the second most popular genre I listen to is pop, but the HD800s didn’t seem really all that bad when it came to it.

During this demo session, I also discovered that I preferred a bright sound signature based on I initially couldn’t really work out if I preferred the original HD800 or the HD800s, but I could tell what the difference was.

In terms of bass, I would like for the bass to be accurate, but I don’t really care for things like punch and slam. Really the only thing that is holding me back from the bass in terms of the HD800s is the fact that people are saying it is ‘distorted’ and I’m looking primarily for detail and accuracy.

I’d also like to ask if these two headphones are the only ones I should be looking at or not. Am I missing something before I purchase? I just want the most accurate, detailed and uncoloured sound. If any of you have any recommendations, I’d love to know.

Also, while I did end up deciding that the HD800s was the best out of all these options, I was sort of left feeling like while the imaging, staging and detail was much better than my Etys, everything else was kind of the same or worse. It made me think that really I should just stick to IEMs. What do you guys think about that? Are they really limited against these full sized cans?

2

What you are experiencing is very common, its called the presentation of the headphones, the arya is laid back (things sound far away), the hd800s are neutral (balanced distribution) and the LCD tend to be very forwards (sounds upfront).

It doesnt matter if its planar or dynamic, they both could be laidback or forward sounding.

You can investigate which presentation the headphones have before buying them based on others feedback.

The thing here is you want to jump from entry level iem to a high level headphone, so you dont know yet what your taste is, I dont know what the etymotics sound like but I imagine they are very tame with a balanced presentation.

Try to see what presentation you would like, what kind of sound signature (in terms of bass, midrange and treble) and what your budget is so we can make a better recommendation for your taste.

Also keep in mind demoing units often sound different to when using at home, and are going to change depending on which source you match them with, which is very very important in this price range.

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Yeah I was a bit concerned because I heard that the amp that you alters the sound quite a bit, which is especially the case with the HD800s apparently.

I’m fine with spending 1.5k on this setup, but I don’t mind going to 2k and I’m not opposed to hearing the cheaper stuff too if it turns out I just like them. Before I buy anything, the next to headphones that I want to hear are the HD600, because this is what everyone recommends, the DT1990 because that’s what I originally thought I wanted, and the Heddphone because people say that it is an upgrade from the Arya, only heavy (this is apparently warm though so I doubt I’d like it - just curious. I think I know I like bright stuff)

I suppose then I’m right in moving away from the Arya because I want a balanced/ maybe even forward sounding presentation (I’ll pay attention to this on my next demo sessions), but I think I’m pretty much decided that I’m looking for a neutral headphone with a more brighter presentation.

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Please describe everything you remember you wanted to be different or better out of the headphones you tested

The problem with getting a HD600 is the phones are cheap but they requiere an expensive amplifier to sound as intended, its not that budget of an investment unless you end up keeping it, they have balanced frequency respone (good amount of everything) and smaller, intimate soundstage, havent heard the etymotics but I imagine its similar.

The dt1990 on the other hand are more distant, bigger but leaner, bassier, treblier, kinda flip side of the hd600 coin.

Of the focal, lcd2c, sundara, arya and hd800s, from the ones you remember the most (if you can demo them again will be extremely helpful) please tell in as much detail as possible what did you think was missing? Some forwardness? Some bass punch? Treble too acute? Etcetera…

For now we now you dont want a presentationt thats too distant, but did you find the focals and the lcd2 to be too forward (in your face)?

5

I really want to demo them again, but I remember that I couldn’t quite work out if the vocal presentation on the HD800s was that good in comparison to the Focal Clear, but I knew I didn’t want the Focal clear because it didn’t have that imaging effect that was really wowing me on the Arya and HD800s.

I didn’t try the LCD2c for long, but I remember thinking that people were being a bit too harsh on these because they don’t sound like crap at all like I was lead to believe and I didn’t find them heavy either, but it wasn’t really capturing the violins as nicely as the HD800 for example. I really like the shape and build of the LCD2C, so its a shame its not exactly what I’m looking for sound wise.

The forward presentation that you’re talking about is probably why I felt positively about the LCD2C now that I think about it. I think I overlooked everything else. I think the drums were nice on these, but not so much the highs - not sure about mids.

Sundara I felt was well separated, but that’s about it. It was very easy to tell it lacked the clarity of everything else in a sense and sounded hazy in comparison, but the imaging was fine. They weren’t bad at all to the extent that if you gave it to me, I’d turn my nose at it, but I was disappointed about how hyped these things were and they really just sounded slightly higher quality to just any old regular headphone.

With the Focal Clear, I was surprised that I did actually enjoy this ‘in your head’ sound, but it is not what I’m looking for in this headphone because I can just get this appeal from an IEM. I only listened to pop on this, I think, because it was a short time I spent with these cause I knew I wouldn’t get them, but I enjoyed the pop. I don’t think this is gonna work well for orchestral music.

I didn’t necessarily dislike that focal/lcd was too forward, but perhaps this is why the imaging was lacking in comparison to the HD800 which was slightly further away.

I remember the hi-hats on the Arya being like nothing I’d ever heard, and like I could feel them, its just I had to focus on them.

When you’re describing the DT1990, I don’t think I want anything bassier than what I’ve heard, so maybe that’s out of the question.

I did actually get some bass punch on the HD800s, but it was harder to make it do that than the Arya. I don’t think for me, treble being harsh or acute is really an issue like it is for most people.

I discovered that while a lot of people think some headphones are ‘too analytical’, I prefer them to be very analytical, but I was listening for about 3 hours to a point where I was experiencing some sort of ear fatigue, which kicked in around when I was listening to old HD800 (non S), so perhaps HD800s is the actual way to go, its just HD800 isn’t really that bad. I think I’d be fine with either. HD800s was more balanced and the HD800 was like an extreme version where it disregarded the bass entirely and focused on the treble. I was A/Bing them later. Now I sort of feel like I would sacrifice the extreme treble of the HD800 for the balance of the HD800s

I did leave this demo session, which happened like last week, thinking I would be perfectly fine with the HD800s. I’m just a bit curious about others. A more forward Arya I think is the perfect headphone.

I think my main concern with the HD800s is that people on the internet have very mixed feelings about this, and I’d like to know what I’m getting is the highest level of detail I can get that isn’t an electrostatic. Some of the things people say about HD800, like the bass response, I don’t really care for until they said ‘distortion’ which implies that it’s not true to what its supposed to sound like.

6

Hello,
A lot will probably depend on the amping with the goals you set for yourself.
Your selection is certainly not bad and one can hear that you are looking for more.

Spontaneously I have two suggestions.
The first would be the Dan Clark Aeon R/T for music and the Audeze Penrose for gaming.

Option 2 would be the Dan Clark Aeon 2 or even the Noire, unfortunately I don’t know the difference between the normal and the Noire.

Since you are already listening to Iem I assume that you already have an amp that can play low impedance.

Especially the Aeon R/T goes beyond the Sennheiser Hd 600/650/6xx and keeps up with the Lcd 2C if you make a rough comparison.
And it also puts the Sundura in its place.

With the Ayra, I’m not sure if it can keep up with the Aeon R/T. If not, the Aeon 2 will.
The R/T is a little brighter than the Lcd2c and closer to the music and offers a very good orchestra in my opinion.
I also find the detail reproduction better.
But very much a matter of taste at the end of the day.

I like both Lcd 2c and R/T in that respect.
Apart from that, with Dan Clark you can choose whether open or closed.
Another point in this respect.
And there are filters in the scope of delivery where you can quickly exchange them, which is an advantage without having to take an Eq, especially with quite brightly tuned amplifiers.

If you live in the USA I would definitely listen to the R/T and the Aeon 2.
If you like it and possibly the Penrose for gaming, you’ve also saved a bit of money.

But as I said, the amping is also important.
If the headphones are generally brightly tuned, especially with planar headphones, then I would definitely take a less neutrally tuned amplifier.
Otherwise it becomes too much and shrill.
Take something that tends to be warmly tuned and you will get a neutral warm sound as a result.
That would be my tip.

The Sennheiser is not wrong and you are also right with your statement, many people find it a bit more on the Dr.Jakel and Hyde border, because it also likes to dissect.
I think it’s totally unsuitable for pop because it only touches on a melody in time, which can quickly get on your nerves.
It can be very good for classical music and jazz, or for recordings that contain a lot of detail and dynamics.
For pop, it can be a little less of the whole thing so that it is still fun to listen to.

The Arya with the Aeon could be your guide in the first place, then the amping if you want to fine-tune it a bit if it hasn’t been used much yet.
In this respect, I would first decide on the headphones and then the amping, because if it should be a planar headphone, a hybrid amplifier could be the final touch.
With the Sennheiser, even an Otl amplifier would be nice.

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Oh they had this Dan Clark stuff at the place I was demoing, but I never picked them up. Never heard anything about them is the reason why. I’ll be sure to listen to those. Thank you.

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Also give the LCDX a listen of you can. It’s like the lcd2 but more…really more of everything.

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This is really about learning your taste and developing it further, just like wine and coffe tasting.

Also most of us have at least 2 or 3 pairs of headphones or even complete chains because we like to have different tunings and presentations for different songs/genres.

For now I would suggest start of with something that you have a month to return (amazon, apos, etc…) Because during that period the headphones sound will change and your taste may change as well, or you might find the headphones uncomfortable in longer sessions.

You can save a lot of money buying used gear, for the headphones maybe get them new in case you want to return them, or get them used if you are certain, products used by audiophiles are usually very well taken care of.

The headphones make the most difference for the money, then the amplifier, and then the DAC, but all 3 of them are crucial, dont believe on people that say dacs dont matter, thats bullshit.

If you run out of budget you can get the headphones first along with cheaper source components, and upgrade those down the road. For example get a good headphones and amp, and a budget DAC like the allo revolution with nirvana SMPS or the geshelli J2.
A very overlooked DAC I personally recommend is the pro-ject pre box S2, its very convenient and allows you to change songs and volume through its remote control.
Used soekris dac1321 and dac1421 also offer great value for the price.

Given your budget of 1.5k to 2k and what you wrote these are some examples of combos I believe you should really look into:

Audeze LCD X
Rupert Neve RNHP amp or little labs monotor
Schiit bifrost 2

This is specially good if you dont mind using an EQ software to fine tune the headphones and dont have comfort issues with them, its probably the most resolving for the price.

Sennheiser HD800s
RNHP or Feliks Echo Mk1 or Feliks Elise
Schiit bifrost 2

Just great tuning out of the box and massive soundstage.

DCA aeon 2/RT/noire or Hifiman HEX v2
Lake people G111 or Monolith liquid platinum
Schiit bifrost 2 or denafrips ares II or soekris dacs for the G111

Havent heard these third group, should be like the arya but more to your liking based on friends comments.

Once again, buy what you can used, its going to save you a ton of money.

These chains I dont own but have heard them from friends, my taste is more of focal, audio technica, beyer and grado so thats what I use. I prefer more intimate and forward, or laid back in the case of beyer.

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ZMF Verite / or potentially Auteur

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i really really like the look of these but i don’t think i’ll be able to demo them

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Yeah, challenging to demo…however they hold their value really well. Find a used set, try em and if you like em keep or resell and get yourself a new set. Headfi is a good place to start looking.

I’ve just got the 2021 LCD-X and it too is a great sounding set of cans.