🔷 Focal Elegia

Hifi_newb · February 22, 2022, 6:09am

You did an excellent job man. Thank you for your explanations, they’ve been really helpful. Your English is better than mine. So if I’m understanding you correctly, the headphones “tuning” is the frequency response curve ?

fidelity = neutral e.g. HD600
coloration = other curves e.g. mainstream headphones

And all consumer focused hifi headphones fall somewhere in-between that spectrum?

Does EQing a headphone change the frequency response curve of the headphone or does it change the source to balance out the frequency response of the headphone?

Dzaw · February 22, 2022, 6:54am

EQ will change the signal sent to the headphone to compensate for the natural tuning, effectively altering the FRC that gets to your eardrums. Some try to “flatten the curve” and achieve a very analytical sound. If that’s what ya like, I mean, more power to ya, but the human ear doesn’t hear all frequencies evenly, and there are differences from one person to another.

That’s why I sometimes chuckle in my sleeve a little at the idea of music “as the artist intended”. There’s no real way to anticipate what the artist “intended”, since that artist’s ear likely doesn’t hear a sound the same way yours does.

Some headphones respond more readily to EQ than others. That can tell you something about the headphone. I’m not entirely sure what it tells you about it, but I feel like there’s some deeper lesson to learn from that fact. For what it’s worth, Elegia in specific, and Focal headphones in general have a reputation of taking to EQ very well. I can’t speak for the rest of the line, but I am listening to Blackpink through a pair of Elegia’s right now, and I can add to the reputation - they do indeed respond beautifully to EQ.

I am just starting to explore the power of EQ. As such I am still starting with presets built for my headphone by people with more experience and pretty solid reputations in this area (Crinacle, Rtings, referenceaudioanalyzer, etc). There’s a whole shit ton of presets on AutoEQ. You can’t really stop there though - most of those presets are made to try and mimic the 2018 over ear Harmon target, which has a lightly V shaped FRC. That may be a place to start, but then you can use additional EQ or changes to the preset to get the sound to where you like it. It can be a pretty fun excercise - A/B testing changes, observing the difference, then trying something for a good long session or two to really see if it suits you.

I gave up on strict, flat “fidelity” when I found that the right preset for my current headphones sounded like pulling a wet towel off my head - all of the sound was there, but suddenly, I was right in the middle of it. If you’ve ever been to a concert, and heard the sound from outside the venue, then went in to where you were supposed to be, you can imagine the difference, it was not unlike that. Just clearer, cleaner, more open, and I could hear the room better. I never really understood what people meant when they described a headphone as having a “holographic” spacial presentation until I got the right preset to start with. Now I’m tweaking the EQ to figure out why it made such a difference, to see if it’s optimal, or if I want more or less, etc.

Hifi_newb · February 22, 2022, 9:01am

Interesting. This forum is great! So EQ to taste and play around with it to discover what my taste is. I have a feeling Ill be using different EQs for different reasons.

If everything sounds different to everyone, Is it more important to have quality cans that take well to EQ, or am I looking for a headphone with tuning that suits me. Essentially how do I evaluate the headphones when I receive them? Is having to EQ a headphone a negative or just an enrichment of any listening experience?

Dzaw · February 22, 2022, 3:58pm

Both / neither

Most people don’t EQ at all. The most common advice people have given me was to spend sime time with less expensive headphones discovering what sorts of things are important to me. Did I like a flatter FRC, a more V shaped one? U shaped? Do I like really elevated bass, or maybe a bump in lower mids?

By spending some time buying / selling through less expensive HP, you don’t go broke while you figure out what you want. Then, when your tastes are more developed and established, and your ability to describe what you want is more solidified, you are ready to ask for and evaluate advice about better (and often more expensive) headphones that will suit those tastes. With that experience, you are also more able to evaluate reviews on your own.

Most people would probably say that it is better to get a HP that fits your tastes perfectly, without any need for EQ at all. Many would also probably admit that the ‘perfect’ HP probably doesn’t exist. On the flip side, I would also have to admit that EQ does have its downsides, and the more you have to use it to change a HP, the more you’re sacrificing.

So there’s a balance to be struck. EQ can have negative impacts, so tread lightly, which means starting with a HP pretty close to what you want anyhow.

Raptor168 · February 22, 2022, 3:59pm

I find that using the EQ is fun for me. I haven’t been using EQ since I got my new laptop this past Christmas but Sunday night I finally broke down and installed the Peace EQ/APO. And I am right back in the fun zone again. I agree with @Dzaw that the Elegia is very receptive to EQ. I have been using the Elegia a lot this past week and now that I have EQ capability back I have been having tremendous fun with them again.

I think overall, rating a headphone depends on how much EQ needs to be applied in order for you to truly enjoy it. If just a little or none at all, the headphone is a hit. If you have to really EQ the crap out of a headphone to enjoy it, it’s probably the wrong headphone. At least that is the way I have been going about it. It’s been working out pretty well so far.

Dzaw · February 22, 2022, 4:08pm

Here is some advice given me on this very topic, but in another thread.

Fiio FH3 + UTWS3 = good enough?

EQ degrades your sound quality.

Now that is one hell of a blanket statement. And it’s hard to explain without saying things that don’t actually exist but just sit with me.

Imagien you have a song of quality level 100. And you have ears that can hear 80. If your EQ iq only gonna degrade it 10 or 20… You won’t hear a difference.

So when DO you hear a difference?

Heavier EQ-ing. The more you EQ (the higher or lower you pull the slider at any given frequency) the more your quality will degrade. (in my stupid example, imagine lowering the quality not by 20 but by 50)

Worse source quality. I’m talking about either the digital source (the file/stream) when you EQ in software or the input signal when you EQ. (imagine in my stupid example you only start at level 80)

better hearing. We all got different ears and brains. Mine are fucked. I can listen to a 320kbps mp3 and a top of the line lossless 8GB song and not hear a damn difference. but some of us do hear better. (Again. In my stupid ‘levels’ example. imagine if you can hear a 95)

So when you EQ, pick a good source and listen. Do you hear the quality suffer? No? Great! Sure it DID suffer but if you can’t hear it who gives a f*ck! Yes? try a lighter EQ

Cardo_Jeremy · February 22, 2022, 4:33pm

The sligher the eq is the better it is for you.

That is my eq for the hd600.
I like them on stock ,i love them with that change .it’s a sight eq.
That’s a big win.

The elegia is also good for me to some extent .

I don’t deviate to much from the stock sound.

Overhall the hd600 is the best headphone i ever heard. Tuningwise.

The elegia is a keeper

As you long you don’t deviate to much from the stock sound ,keep the headphone.
If you do more eq than i did for my elegia. Return your headphone .

Hifi_newb · February 22, 2022, 9:16pm

Ok

Thank you
@Cardo_Jeremy
@Dzaw
@Raptor168

Ok, so my follow up question is, what makes headphones sound better than cheaper options? Like what’s the difference between an xm4, a focal elegia and then maybe a beyerdynamic 770. are the dollars going into intangibles like brand, build quality and comfort, or do more dollars get you better sound technology, independent of tuning?

Unfortunately, I travel around a lot and I don’t have the time or stability to develop a true audiophile set up. I’m looking for a Catch all headphone that will just enhance my listening experience over the conventional headphones available at your big buck stores.

I was under the impression that more dollars = better engineering. So 349 USD, the focal elegia were probably the best closed back headphone I could get for the money.

Cardo_Jeremy · February 22, 2022, 10:00pm

The honest truth is higher price isn’t always better.
No matter The price if you can’t bare the sound for more than 10 minutes this audio gear won’t be worth it .

Here the elegia are 350 $/€ is an excellent deal .
On a technical level it s good.
But nothing can guarantee that you will be hooked by the sound.
Because even if you get the elegia for 70$/€ for example and tou still don’t like the sound on stock eq or equed it s gonna be a 70$/€ loss.
Tho at the retail price of 900$/€ i wouldn’t recommend it .

Company will always take a margin for the branding .
When you buy a elegia or a wh1000xm4 you can be sure that a part of you pay goes for the “sony” and focal " .

for engineering ,build and comfort, i don’t know.

Basically there is a fine balance between overpriced/on point/ price to performance.

We can be factual on if the price asked is on part with the technical performances of a headphone.

However,i personally think that technical performance isn’t the best best way to approach sound.
Especially when someone may like it and others don’t .

A good question to ask yourself,
“are you comfortable paying that price for this sound?”

For example, i got my kph30i for 40€ 30+(10 transport)

When i hear it ,i can comfortably say that even at 100€ i wouldn’t have any regrets.

As for the elegia, i got them as bundle ( elegia + dragonfly black) 450€

To me it was the only way i could grab a elegia new and a that “low” price.

I can comfortably say that 600€ would be on point and higher than that would be overpriced.

As for my sennheizer hd600 and sundara.
670€ for both.

I Would happily say that the retail price of the sundara (500$/€) is on point.
However ,i got them for 350€. Fantastic price.

the hd600 is (400€ at retail) it s a nice price.
But i got them for( 320€) it s banger.

The hd600 are my daily driver.

To judge the price of a sound it’s mainly a matter of preferences.

That being said , my way seeing things might no be the best according to other people.

The hd600 are easy to drive , i power them out my phone and it s loud enough

In you situation.

I guess the elegia might do it
The kph30i might also do the coffee

Cardo_Jeremy · February 22, 2022, 10:12pm

It s when i got my hd600 that i realized what i was looking for and what to search.
I because i got the hd600 that i could fully enjoy the sundara.
if you want to get into it more seriously afterwards.

I m pretty much sure that the hd600 will guide you to the promised land

JCRG · February 22, 2022, 10:14pm

How does the isolation on Elegias compare vs closed Aeons or closed Beyers? Because my current cans, the Audeze LCD-2 Classic Closed cannot block a lot of outside noises, and it’s driving me insane, the neighbor’s dogs are so loud, and the city doesn’t care about noise, so I’m about just considering arson to shut them up for good.

Cardo_Jeremy · February 22, 2022, 10:21pm

I hope dogs for dinner taste good.

I can’t compare the 3 however i can compare the elegia to the Sony wh1000xm3/4.

The elegia would be good enough provided that you crank a little bit up the sound.

Tho the wh1000xm4 would be on point for your situation.

JCRG · February 22, 2022, 10:28pm

Thanks for the suggestion, but there’s just something weird about the current implementation of ANC that just makes the overall sound of music feel very strange ime, so at the moment I would really want to get the best passive noise isolation, without sacrificing a lot of sound quality.

Like, I know the drummer’s beyers, the DT 770 M are super isolating, but they have dead bass because of sealed vents, so I would really love to know if anyone here has some input regarding mid to high-mid tier closed cans with very well implemented passive isolation. So far the best contenders, according to reviews, are the Elegias, the Aeon Closed, and Beyer DT 1770/177X.

Others have suggested IEMs, but I voice chat a lot, and since many others have also mentioned that IEMs make your voice resonate a lot inside your skull when speaking, idk about them…

Thanks in advance for your time.

Dzaw · February 22, 2022, 10:32pm

Prior to my Elegias I was in Audiotechnica ATH-M40X

The EQ I use on them are presets meant to emulate the 2018 over ear Harmon target (which may or may not suit your tastes - mileage will definitely vary). Therefore, it could be said that they were equivalently tuned (or nearly so) after EQ.

With the Elegias, there is so much better soundstage, spacial recreation, isolation, seperation. Pinpointing where individual instruments and voices are is easier.

They are also much more resolving. I listening recordings I thought I knew very well that now have a whole world of new sounds and information in them I was unaware of.

Finally, they sound a bit more “natural”. I’ve played in a jazz/rock ensemble, so I know what it’s like to be in the room while we played “In the Mood” and “Basic Basie”. I know what trumpets, trombones, saxiphones, etc sound like when you’re in the room with the real instrument. The Elegias sound just a touch more like the real thing - even though the (tuning + EQ) FRC is “equal”.

Cardo_Jeremy · February 22, 2022, 10:39pm

For an iem i can recommend you closed eyes.
The etymotic er2se or xr variant.
Passive isolation 30db…
The best part is that they sound really neutral so you can eq them to suit your taste better.
They are around 100$

JCRG · February 22, 2022, 10:40pm

Would you happen to have tried IEMs for discord calls? Would it make speaking sound awkward for the user?

Thanks.

Hifi_newb · February 23, 2022, 1:10am

Just received the elegias. My first impressions are:

They’re amazing. So much better than anything I’ve listened to. I don’t have my DAC yet but I think once I have that this will be my go to combo.
I like the EQ functionality, it works well when changing between styles/types of listening. I find a small bass boost is necessary but on focals website they say around 24 hours of runtime is required before the bass really kicks in. Even so, as it is right now with a preset EQ these are leagues better than what I’m used to.
They are massive, definitely not as portable as I would like but probably manageable.
The cord is SO SHORT. why?

Anyways, I appreciate all the advice and education, I’ll probably follow up in 72 hours once I’ve become well acquainted with the headphones

@Cardo_Jeremy I’ll probably pick up the etymotic er2se soon!

Cardo_Jeremy · February 23, 2022, 1:29am

I wasn’t lucky enough for a woman to say that to me🤣

Dzaw · February 23, 2022, 1:29am

Yeah, Focal’s stock cables are kind of a joke. In fact, they’re kind of a running joke. Did you get the stiff plastic coated round one, or the even more horrid rectangular weave-wrapped one that’s two cables wrapped side by side? They’re both terrible, but the rectangular one I hear is the worse of the two (I got the plastic round one). I ordered a Hart cable when I ordered the headphone, having been forewarned. If I had known you were so close to pulling the trigger, I’da warned you about them.

I am pretty satisfied with Hart for the replacement. It’s not spactacular, a little microphonic, and even at 4’ + the interconnect (adds like 6"), I still wish it were a little longer, but to get longer from them you have to wait for their custom shop.

Periapt also has a pretty good reputation, though I have yet to try them. There are, of course plenty of very cheap chinese cables - some of which I have heard some good things about. Also, as with everything in this hobby, The sky is the limit - there are vendors making cables for hundreds, and even thousands of dollars from exotic materials like graphene cores with pure fine silver coatings and all such sundry. Some believe high buck cables improve the sound, but I haven’t got the cash to try that sort of thing out for myself. Even the staunchest cable roller will admit they have a very small impact - smaller and more subtle than any other change you can make to your setup.

Cardo_Jeremy · February 23, 2022, 1:31am

Focal took the" it’s not the length but the thickness that matter "way too seriously