Getting started (tygr 300?) - Also any Beyerdynamic A2 experience?

[SpongyMoose]

Hi all

So. I’m about to dive head first into non-gaming-headset teritory and I’ve read a lot of threads. Already before I started doing that, I was considering the Tygr’s and they still seem like a solid contender. I’m also looking into dac/amps (preferably separate) and, as a person, would like to future-proof a bit, since I have a “bad feeling” that I will at least tumble part-way down the rabbithole and get more, high-impedance headphones down the line.

I currently own a dated version of the Astro A40’s, which have served me well in the last 8 or so years.

Since I’m from Europe a lot of the typical recommends on dac/amps (schiit, jds, etc) are not easily available. I have however come across a (great) bargain for a Beyerdynamic A2, which to my google-fu seems to be a very tranpsarent amp, although not a lot is written about it. My only concern is how much of an overkill - or even possibly bad buy - would this be for my situation. I’m not necessarily dead set on the Tygr’s, but they would be a decent starting point for me.

Other than the Tygr’s I’ve mostly looked at other Beyers (990 or 1990). I’ve never owned a pair however, and my knowledge of my prefered sound profile in regards to brands, is slim to none. I expect the 990 to be to bright for me, but this is purely a guess on my part. I’m not much for the QA issues of something like the Sundaras, so even though all headphones can have issues, I prefer buying something with a better repuration for quality (feel free to prove me wrong, however).

The only thing I am sure about, however, that I want an open headphone and I’m most likely going to pair that with an external mic on a boom arm (unless a mod-mic is easily installed, which is not the case on most Beyers)

The smartest option would probably be to just start with the Tygr’s and take it from there. The A2 would probably be off the table by then though, so if that’s something worth owning, I might just bite the bigger bullet now.

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Requirements:
Games: I mainly need the headphones to be geared towards Escape from Tarkov, PUBG (and probably the upcoming Battlefield 2042) and other than that I play Rocket League and Sea of Thieves, but the latter two are not nearly as sound-intensive as the other two.

Music: So other than wanting a good headphone setup for my gaming I, like most others, also watch both movies and listen to music on my PC. Music-wise it’s pretty broad from indie, rock and metal, so it’s easier listing some of the genres I don’t listen much to (jazz, opera, country…)

Speakers: I also have a set of powered/active speakers (Audioenginge a5’s - the non-plus ones) which I would like to include in my future setup, so I can easily switch to speakers when desired. As far as I can read that means having either a pre-amp or line-out on the amp.

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Futher info:
My motherboard is the “ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING” which seems to have at least a little bit of focus on the audio. They’re advertising up to 600Ω headphones although that sounds like a bit of a stretch (but what do I know): ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

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Please let me know if I left out something - and thanks in advance for any possible input in this thread and all the great advice in all the other posts on here

[Falenkor]

Hey there, this kinda got left unanswered figured I would chime in here.

I will go ahead and separate this into different areas for answering since its a longer post

@SpongyMoose

So. I’m about to dive head first into non-gaming-headset teritory and I’ve read a lot of threads. Already before I started doing that, I was considering the Tygr’s and they still seem like a solid contender. I’m also looking into dac/amps (preferably separate) and, as a person, would like to future-proof a bit, since I have a “bad feeling” that I will at least tumble part-way down the rabbithole and get more, high-impedance headphones down the line.

So, the tygrs are essentially just the dt 990 retuned down to 32 ohms without the crappy sound qualities the 990 usually has in its 32 ohm state. The 990 is technically superior but is so blindingly bright in sound signature that its hard for many to use. Tygr is the more well rounded choice and can in many many cases be driven ampless depending on the motherboard as it doesn’t scale to a significant degree so it really doesn’t need an amp to sing to the fullest.

@SpongyMoose

I currently own a dated version of the Astro A40’s, which have served me well in the last 8 or so years.

its definitely not bad honestly for an open back headset since theres very little to begin with in terms of open backs. Though in terms of staging and sound placement the tygr puts the a40 to shame by a pretty huge margin when driven. Many headphones will, but sound is a bit subjective as well so enjoyment will vary based on a persons sound signature preference of course.

@SpongyMoose

Since I’m from Europe a lot of the typical recommends on dac/amps (schiit, jds, etc) are not easily available. I have however come across a (great) bargain for a Beyerdynamic A2, which to my google-fu seems to be a very tranpsarent amp, although not a lot is written about it. My only concern is how much of an overkill - or even possibly bad buy - would this be for my situation. I’m not necessarily dead set on the Tygr’s, but they would be a decent starting point for me.

I would say this depends on what your looking for. Though, I wouldn’t recommend the A2 honestly… I don’t find it a very good amp for the price really, though if cheap enough its definitely not a terrible amp. If your looking for an audiophile quality sound going with a good amp of sorts is a good idea, just keep in mind an A2 is complete overkill for the tygr. If your planning to upgrade though I would consider weighing options. According to others from europe the company Lake People seems rather accessible so I would encourage looking into that since they have an amp very similar to that of the schiit asgard which is an extremely good amplifier.

@SpongyMoose

Other than the Tygr’s I’ve mostly looked at other Beyers (990 or 1990). I’ve never owned a pair however, and my knowledge of my prefered sound profile in regards to brands, is slim to none. I expect the 990 to be to bright for me, but this is purely a guess on my part. I’m not much for the QA issues of something like the Sundaras, so even though all headphones can have issues, I prefer buying something with a better repuration for quality (feel free to prove me wrong, however).

1990 is a god but comes with a price and does need an amp setup, I would encourage holding off on this until you get a taste of bright headphones. I would encourage trying the 880 and 990 before flipping to a 1990 as the brightness they present is fairly similar without torching your wallet and you may be able to find a store to audition them in some sort of fashion. Tygrs are a cute above the 880 in terms of competitive gaming but not so much sound quality, 990 is the tygr in its true state but mainly at 600 ohm where it needs to be to get the most from it however the brightness can be extremely off putting especially if someones a fan of the mids/vocals as both tygr and 990 are more recessive in the mids.

@SpongyMoose

The only thing I am sure about, however, that I want an open headphone and I’m most likely going to pair that with an external mic on a boom arm (unless a mod-mic is easily installed, which is not the case on most Beyers)

tygr have no issues with modmics and can work just fine, I have a friend who uses that exact setup. 990 and 880 can be a bit harder to place it but it will work… weird design though. Then again for vocal quality yeah just grab a good mic.

@SpongyMoose

The smartest option would probably be to just start with the Tygr’s and take it from there. The A2 would probably be off the table by then though, so if that’s something worth owning, I might just bite the bigger bullet now.

id say skip the A2 and save up a bit, make sure you get a good amp and dac rolling otherwise as listed above and as youll see me mention there are alternatives like G6 from soundblaster that while definitely arent the audiophile sound quality will drive up to 600 ohm headphones. There are others that can drive this much power but many of them have issues that makes me not bring them up that much.

@SpongyMoose

Escape from Tarkov

this game alone makes me say stick with the beyers, sound the game where every little moment counts. This is usually where I take headphones to actually test just how accurate they are in games considering the ridiculous requirements this game presents.

@SpongyMoose

Music: So other than wanting a good headphone setup for my gaming I, like most others, also watch both movies and listen to music on my PC. Music-wise it’s pretty broad from indie, rock and metal, so it’s easier listing some of the genres I don’t listen much to (jazz, opera, country…)

tygrs are a warmer V shape signature so this should work fine for your music tastes just expect the vocal and mid presentation to be dialed back a little.

@SpongyMoose

ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING

that one has built in op amps on the board and can drive up to around 250 ohms depending on the headphones watt per channel. It should be able to drive a tygr to full without issue ampless.

[SpongyMoose]

Hi @Falenkor

Thanks a lot for chiming in. And an even bigger thanks for all the other comments and details you’ve provided across this forum in general. It’s been a great help in narrowing down my options.

The A2 was off the table pretty much the day after my post, but I’ve read it was supposed to be a warm-ish amp and that put me off just enough to let it slide. I will look into Lake People though, so thanks for the heads up.

To cut a long story short, I found a great deal on a used set of the “Team Tygr” bundle, which pretty much fit the bill and was sort of what my gut was leaning towards. The Fox mic is a bit overkill for my needs, which is mainly discord, but I can get use to the boom arm with no issue.

My ears are ever so slighty touching the drivers/amiron inlays, but it seems to be a non-issue for me so far.

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@Falenkor

its definitely not bad honestly for an open back headset since theres very little to begin with in terms of open backs. Though in terms of staging and sound placement the tygr puts the a40 to shame by a pretty huge margin when driven. Many headphones will, but sound is a bit subjective as well so enjoyment will vary based on a persons sound signature preference of course.

This is absolutely true and honestly I was pretty surprised on my first session with Tarkov - even after reading a multitude of comments on this exact subject. The A40’s have definetely served me well - and better than most of my teammates headphones - but the Tygrs just feels like a wallhack sometimes. I need more time to confirm whether or not my ears are telling me the exact truth, but the imaging is… as everyone seems to put it… laser sharp.

I’ve also - on multiple occasions already - been able to hear footsteps and noise my teammates couldn’t pick up. And even at volumes where I sometimes thought “how can you not hear this - he’s pretty much on top of us” (migth’ve been Tarkov sound bugging out though).

–

The 990/1990 might very weel be to sharp for me, so I’m glad I started out with the Tygrs. The sound in both gaming and music so far is pleasent and detailed. But… I’m pretty sure I’m starting down a deep rabbit hole here, so hopefully I will have the option to try them out down the road.

In regards to dac/amps though. Right now I’m running the headphones off of the Fox mic. This makes sense in my setup in regards to the length of the cable and convenience. I’ve watched Zeo’s video regarding recommended volume settings and all (to avoid distortion), but I’ve not messed to much around with it yet and the sounds is coming off nicely. I assume the Fox mic is just as, if not more, than capable as my motherboard in driving the headphones, but do you by any chance have any knowledge about this?

I am almost certain I will start looking around for an dac/amp stack in the near future, so I’m not against getting something for the Tygrs that might also be useful down the road. However I am aware that this is hard to recommend until I know what headphones I might be adding to my collection.

Once again thanks for all the input. Really.

[Falenkor]

@SpongyMoose

The A2 was off the table pretty much the day after my post, but I’ve read it was supposed to be a warm-ish amp and that put me off just enough to let it slide. I will look into Lake People though, so thanks for the heads up.

To cut a long story short, I found a great deal on a used set of the “Team Tygr” bundle, which pretty much fit the bill and was sort of what my gut was leaning towards. The Fox mic is a bit overkill for my needs, which is mainly discord, but I can get use to the boom arm with no issue.

gotcha, well if you already purchased the bundle I suppose no harm done as long as you got it on a good deal. My main issue with that bundle is that the fox mic really isn’t all that great. Not since you can get like a yeti blackout off the markets for like $60 and it easily tops the fox. Granted it is nice that the two go together and the fox mic can push power into the tygr. As long as it works, should be alright.

@SpongyMoose

My ears are ever so slighty touching the drivers/amiron inlays, but it seems to be a non-issue for me so far.

was the headphone bought used? the pads could be worn in, when beyer pads get worn down they do thin up which can lead to this. You can always get new pads for it or just switch to dekoni which have much thicker pads, just try to keep things velour so it doesn’t mess with your sound all that much.

@SpongyMoose

This is absolutely true and honestly I was pretty surprised on my first session with Tarkov - even after reading a multitude of comments on this exact subject. The A40’s have definetely served me well - and better than most of my teammates headphones - but the Tygrs just feels like a wallhack sometimes. I need more time to confirm whether or not my ears are telling me the exact truth, but the imaging is… as everyone seems to put it… laser sharp.

So, the main issue you will eventually notice with the tygrs especially in games like tarkov is that the recession in the mids can cause some ever so slight issues with certain placements of sounds. Such as if someone makes a scav call out it can appear a bit quieter and pushed in the back just as an example. The other thing is that its not the airiest sounding headphone so verticality while is laser accurate isn’t as apparent as it could be so placing above or below will take some practice.

@SpongyMoose

I’ve also - on multiple occasions already - been able to hear footsteps and noise my teammates couldn’t pick up. And even at volumes where I sometimes thought “how can you not hear this - he’s pretty much on top of us” (migth’ve been Tarkov sound bugging out though).

oh no, I get that all the time. I have a couple buddies I haven’t converted over. One using the gsp 500 from sennheiser the other the a40s actually and I can pick off sounds from another building even like… why can’t you hear this? then again I use the T1 which allows me to place you from a rather insane distance. Even the slowest walk thats very quiet gets picked up, 1990 does this as well. Tygr is extremely good at this its just the budget option or rather the one of the best options early on for those trying to save money.

@SpongyMoose

The 990/1990 might very weel be to sharp for me, so I’m glad I started out with the Tygrs. The sound in both gaming and music so far is pleasent and detailed. But… I’m pretty sure I’m starting down a deep rabbit hole here, so hopefully I will have the option to try them out down the road.

definitely try them before committing to a purchase. Personally, I love the 990’s sparkly qualities but I know quite a few who actually find pain and discomfort with just how bright it is. 1990 is just as peaky but its signature is heavily balanced so its very neutral bright. 1990 however has a flexible signature like an 880 so a simple change in pads will flip its signature everywhich way… it comes with two sets of pads one for the V signature like a tygr or 990 the other for its neutral bright signature like an 880. Though 1990 is open back and just as accurate as the 990s… its essentially just a upgrade.

@SpongyMoose

In regards to dac/amps though. Right now I’m running the headphones off of the Fox mic. This makes sense in my setup in regards to the length of the cable and convenience. I’ve watched Zeo’s video regarding recommended volume settings and all (to avoid distortion), but I’ve not messed to much around with it yet and the sounds is coming off nicely. I assume the Fox mic is just as, if not more, than capable as my motherboard in driving the headphones, but do you by any chance have any knowledge about this?

the fox mic does drive the headphone which is what it was designed to do… its nice to have but for your motherboard this is kind of a moot point since your board can power it just fine… wouldn’t hurt to think of potential upgrades if need be otherwise just stick with fox, it won’t steer you wrong its just on the warmer side so its not a proper reproduction of your voice like other mics can do.

@SpongyMoose

I am almost certain I will start looking around for an dac/amp stack in the near future, so I’m not against getting something for the Tygrs that might also be useful down the road. However I am aware that this is hard to recommend until I know what headphones I might be adding to my collection.

it will take trial and error. Suggest trying other signatures, but for tarkov just stay with the beyers… less you feel like really spending an arm and a leg above the $500 mark. I know others who would disagree and some even use narrow soundstages but I hard disagree when it comes to tarkov… it really depends on how often you spend in doors… like if your over there on customs dorms nonstop… really pointless to have a large soundstage to begin with but out on maps like woods? large soundstage helps tremendously

to give you a read on the other beyers. Your tygr is a slight V shape, 990 is a very sharp V shape so theres more recession in the mids with more emphasis on bass and highs, 880 is midcentric bright with bass being around neutral however its semi open, 770 is the closed back variant and is V shaped, 1770 is V shaped as well, 177x GO is more harman tuned and closer to a neutral line and is the portable closed back variant, T5P is intensively bright but is the portable variant of a T1, T1 is like an hd800S slightly increased bass tones mid centric yet bright, smooth and relaxed… t1 has the largest of the soundstages in beyers lineup, 1990 is whatever pads your using.

1990 and T1 are what you could deem potential end game. There are alternatives that hit other categories such as verticality, soundstage king, etc but for the most part the beyers fit the bill spot on

if you watch streamers, just as an example pestily over there does use the 1990

Edit: I should reiterate that one… T1 2ND GEN is like that… 3rd gen is junk for competitive gaming. Bassy as hell

[SpongyMoose]

@Falenkor

gotcha, well if you already purchased the bundle I suppose no harm done as long as you got it on a good deal. My main issue with that bundle is that the fox mic really isn’t all that great. Not since you can get like a yeti blackout off the markets for like $60 and it easily tops the fox. Granted it is nice that the two go together and the fox mic can push power into the tygr. As long as it works, should be alright.

Yeah I figured there might be better options, but since my need is only for discord I figured what the heck.

@Falenkor

was the headphone bought used? the pads could be worn in, when beyer pads get worn down they do thin up which can lead to this. You can always get new pads for it or just switch to dekoni which have much thicker pads, just try to keep things velour so it doesn’t mess with your sound all that much.

Yeah I bought them used (they still aren’t in stock for another month or so here in Denmark), so you might have a point. I was thinking of the Dekonis, but I wasn’t sure regarding the sound and padswapping on the Tygr’s. I can’t remember Zeos’ conclusion, but from what I gather the Tygr’s aren’t to happy about swapping out the pads. But if the velour Dekonis aren’t messing to much with the sound, although being deeper pads, that might be a way to go - purely for the comfort.

@Falenkor

So, the main issue you will eventually notice with the tygrs especially in games like tarkov is that the recession in the mids can cause some ever so slight issues with certain placements of sounds. Such as if someone makes a scav call out it can appear a bit quieter and pushed in the back just as an example. The other thing is that its not the airiest sounding headphone so verticality while is laser accurate isn’t as apparent as it could be so placing above or below will take some practice.

I think I see what you mean with this already, but I need more hours in the game. I don’t expect this is any better on the 990, so we’re more in 880/1990/T1 2.gen/etc territory?

@Falenkor

oh no, I get that all the time. I have a couple buddies I haven’t converted over. One using the gsp 500 from sennheiser the other the a40s actually and I can pick off sounds from another building even like… why can’t you hear this? then again I use the T1 which allows me to place you from a rather insane distance. Even the slowest walk thats very quiet gets picked up, 1990 does this as well. Tygr is extremely good at this its just the budget option or rather the one of the best options early on for those trying to save money.

Glad I’m not imagining things

@Falenkor

definitely try them before committing to a purchase. Personally, I love the 990’s sparkly qualities but I know quite a few who actually find pain and discomfort with just how bright it is. 1990 is just as peaky but its signature is heavily balanced so its very neutral bright. 1990 however has a flexible signature like an 880 so a simple change in pads will flip its signature everywhich way… it comes with two sets of pads one for the V signature like a tygr or 990 the other for its neutral bright signature like an 880. Though 1990 is open back and just as accurate as the 990s… its essentially just a upgrade.

I definitely love the flexibility of the 1990’s padswap, although I would probably end up sticking with one sets of pads instead of constantly swapping.

@Falenkor

the fox mic does drive the headphone which is what it was designed to do… its nice to have but for your motherboard this is kind of a moot point since your board can power it just fine… wouldn’t hurt to think of potential upgrades if need be otherwise just stick with fox, it won’t steer you wrong its just on the warmer side so its not a proper reproduction of your voice like other mics can do.

Yeah I mainly use the Fox because it makes cable management easier for my current setup. I just have no reference in as to what “enough” power is. Even though they’re only 32 ohms, I’ve read multiple places the Tygrs still like to be fed properly. Seems like both the Fox and my motherboard is more than sufficient though. Which also means I am in no rush to look for a stack untill I start looking into either a 990/1990/T1 2.gen (I’ve been looking for a 2.gen, but so far no luck), which I think will be my next logical move. I’m definitely a fan of the sound the Tygrs are producing, so Beyers are staying on my radar.

[Falenkor]

@SpongyMoose

Yeah I bought them used (they still aren’t in stock for another month or so here in Denmark), so you might have a point. I was thinking of the Dekonis, but I wasn’t sure regarding the sound and padswapping on the Tygr’s. I can’t remember Zeos’ conclusion, but from what I gather the Tygr’s aren’t to happy about swapping out the pads. But if the velour Dekonis aren’t messing to much with the sound, although being deeper pads, that might be a way to go - purely for the comfort.

it will change the sound going to dekoni, but its not like ultra drastic. Gives quite a bit of depth and soundstage though.

@SpongyMoose

I think I see what you mean with this already, but I need more hours in the game. I don’t expect this is any better on the 990, so we’re more in 880/1990/T1 2.gen/etc territory?

yeah if your looking for mids thats in the territory mentioned. 880 though is a semi open back meaning less soundstage.

@SpongyMoose

I definitely love the flexibility of the 1990’s padswap, although I would probably end up sticking with one sets of pads instead of constantly swapping.

I thought the same, but being able to go from a very bright headphone to a warmer bassier headphone with crazy comfort(suedes) is quite nice.

@SpongyMoose

Yeah I mainly use the Fox because it makes cable management easier for my current setup. I just have no reference in as to what “enough” power is. Even though they’re only 32 ohms, I’ve read multiple places the Tygrs still like to be fed properly

well of course, its a 990 all beyers are older drivers and like power. You can always test the motherboard by plugging the headphone in directly. If the headphone can max at 100% without being loud its not enough power, fairly simple. Tygr shouldn’t really even need to be above 50% volume to be loud or at a good listening volume.

@SpongyMoose

Seems like both the Fox and my motherboard is more than sufficient though. Which also means I am in no rush to look for a stack untill I start looking into either a 990/1990/T1 2.gen (I’ve been looking for a 2.gen, but so far no luck), which I think will be my next logical move. I’m definitely a fan of the sound the Tygrs are producing, so Beyers are staying on my radar.

tygr is… a special case scenario. Your motherboard and fox are definitely sufficient so I think its the smart move to hold off till your up for the upgrade. If your going to upgrade the tygr swing past the 990 and 880. Tygr having a warmer sound signature than the rest of the beyers is unique to it specifically as the others are a hell of a lot brighter. You can however, get a similar response by throwing suede pads on the T1 2nd gen and somewhat the 1990… takes some tinkering really but you can get there.

[SpongyMoose]

@Falenkor

yeah if your looking for mids thats in the territory mentioned. 880 though is a semi open back meaning less soundstage.

Closed and semi-closed aren’t really on my radar right now. I might be convinced otherwise later, but from all headphones i’ve tried (which aren’t a lot to be honest), I’ve always been happy coming home to my open-back a40s.

@Falenkor

I thought the same, but being able to go from a very bright headphone to a warmer bassier headphone with crazy comfort(suedes) is quite nice.

You have a good point. Swapping sounds easy enough and if the T1 2. Gen responds so well in terms of changing the sound - and maybe even nearing the tygr “special” sound that I definitely like - even better.

Im aware thats a big investment and I will keep my eyes out for opportunities to test more from the Beyer lineup.