I did some googling on that challenge. It seems to really be designed to always fail. He EQs out frequency response differences (something that I’m sure many people on this forum will agree is an important difference) and prevents power output/delivery from effecting things. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the point of an amp to provide as much power as is needed with as little distortion as possible? So wouldn’t limmiting the maximum power output of the more powerful amp negate any audible benefits? Like a 2W amp will deliver 1W better than a 1.5W amp since it has more head room.
Then there are things like output impedance and impedance matching. So just saying “all amps are the same so you may as well buy the cheapest decent amp” seems like a narrow minded view to me since a Topping dx3 pro will not be able to power the DT880 600ohm as well as an emotiva A100.
Also regardless of who is “correct”, telling everyone they are wrong and should be ignored is rather rude and unhelpful.
Sure you have! You told me I was ignorant if I wasn’t doing blind double tests. You don’t know me or my gear, but you throw around absolutes like you are the boss.
What are you trying to accomplish here or are you just trolling?
You have said what amounts to “it is objective fact that all amplifiers sound the same” which means that we are wrong for not believing the objective fact. You then go on to ignore many questions from the OP and just recommend what you think is all they need, regardless of what they want. You are imposing yourself and your opinions on this thread.
@Supr4 If I were you I would just listen to @M0N. He is very knowledgeable and will never push you to spend more than is required for what you want. Everything he has recommended is a good option. You would struggle to fine a kinder, more helpful, and more knowledgeable person when it comes to audio.
My reply was not to try to convince Sherm to change his opinion or to start an argument – it already sounds like he is set in his ways and I’m fine with that.
My issue is that OP was genuinely looking for help and was being deterred by this.
That’s why I mentioned that he should just listen to what M0N was saying before the derailment. It is all good advice. M0N has much better self control when it comes to Internet arguments that the rest of us (especially me).
That is ignorance. It’s not an insult. The definition: “lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.” Without doing DBT, it’s impossible to know if amps sound different from one another or not because psychoacoustics are a real thing and our brains are REALLY bad at remembering how things sound.
You are now interpreting things I typed, as opposed to just quoting what I typed. So, no, I never called anyone wrong but have stated numerous objective studies have shown SS amps, that fit the parameters I outline, to be indistinguishable from each other.
I encourage everyone to remove their own biases and do a DBT.
And that’s the point I was making to the OP. All of those amplifiers will sound identical, so I suggested he buy one with a DAC that has enough power to drive nearly every headphone on the market. I didn’t ignore him at all. I gave him the best suggestion based on my knowledge.
I have even pointed to studies and other forums that discuss this thing in more detail. While everyone else just offers anecdotal evidence.
For the record, I didn’t start this argument, either. M0N challenged be and that’s how this thread derailed. He could have easily said, I disagree and gave his advice but he chose a different route.
I never positioned myself as an expert, at least no moreso than anyone else here.
Also, why does the use of the word “ignorant” bother you so much? It’s not an insult in how it was used here. It seems like you are finding a way to be insulted and detracting from the conversation. That seems more “troll” than anything I’ve done here.
I came here offering my advice on a topic. Others challenged me and derailed the thread. It’s almost like a diversity of opinions are looked down upon here.
“Objective research” “willful ignorance”. I don’t know how to interpret this other than how I did.
And on you ignoring the OP. They expressed a distaste for sharp highs. Considering even your Richard Clark amp challang has to EQ out any FR differences, it would seem that amps can make a FR difference, so recomending an amp that may have sharper highs over a warmer/smoother option is ignoring the OP. Especially since you then continue to recommend that option no matter what the OP mentions or asks.
It’s the “willfully ignorant” that is the problem since it means we know better but chose to be wrong, implying we are bad actors trying to mussguide people.
If you really wanted to just give your advice, you would have just recommended the dx3 pro and that’s it. It’s not like we were about to push the OP to spend $7000 on dacs and amps, so your whole “all amps sound the same” shtick was unnecessary.
If you wanted you could have started a thread about if amps/dacs do or don’t make a difference. Past threads with similar topics have all been rather civil.
Have you looked at objective research or done a DBT? If not, than nothing I said was wrong at all. Also, the Richard Clark challenge was literally one example. Not an end all be all study. It’s a popular one that many people are familiar with, which is why I pointed to it.
I stated that they would sound the same. How is that ignoring the OP?
That’s not what it means at all. It doesn’t make assumptions on your character. Willful ignorance is just simply stating a fact of the matter at hand. If you haven’t done a DBT or looked into more objective research while knowing it exists, then yes it is willful ignorance. Again, that doesn’t make any assumptions based on your character or motives.
I gave my advice with reasoning behind it to help the OP make an informed decision. I think that’s infinitely more beneficial than giving advice without explaining why. The OP can choose what he wants to do with that advice.
It seems you have more a problem with how I present myself, as you choose to carry on this topic. Everyone is different but you won’t accept that. Why can’t you just let it go and move? What’s your goal right now?
My goal is that I am board, dislike the spreading of misinformation, and enjoy arguing. I will take full blame for perpetuating this derailment, but it was you who knowingly brought up an obviously controversial topic in this thread. It’s 9:00pm where I am, so if you’re done I’ll be done as well.
Double blind test are not the end all be all. They have their flaws like anything else. They can be helpful, sure, but they are only a piece of the puzzle.
Objective testing and research can only provide infirmation from witch an individual will draw there own conclusions. It is a fact that the majority if the USA prisin population is minorities. Does this mean minorities are all criminals? Or could it be something like systemic racism? (This is just an example, I am not trying to express any political beliefes).
Neither of us are going to change or minds because of a random stranger on the internet so I guess that’s it for me.
I would also like to opoligize to @Supr4 for this mess as I have done nothing but make it worse.
I have to say as someone extremely familiar with psychology and research, its not reliable. The same reasoning you use to dismiss the experience of many forum members here should also be applied to the studies claiming to uncover any better understanding.
Your approach is something I would recommend working on. If you go back and read through this thread I hope you’re able to see you are playing the troll every step. If that isn’t your intention, there is something you should understand. Communication is not about what you say, but what others hear. You sir, have a hard time articulating your intention and the responses here have been consistently civil.
This is a nice place, I like it. Let’s keep it that way.
I participate in many forums and this issue has never been brought up. I participated on this forum many times before when it first came out and never had any issue. So in my “personal experience” I believe this to be an issue with the few of you in this thread, and an issue of mine.
Please, if you want to do this exercise, point out to any instant where I was being troll. I never baited anyone into an argument nor did I lie about anything I said. All of my responses have been sincere. I feel as though you believe brevity and straight-forward responses some how paints me as a troll. I think that’s absolutely silly.
If anything, this response of yours has been one of the most “troll” posts in this thread. It adds nothing for the OP, it directly attacks me and only serves to derail the thread further. Maybe you are projecting with the troll comment.
In fact, there wasn’t an issue at all until I made an assertion that has basis in fact and not personal bias. M0N challenged me on it, and I gave my reasoning. And then others chimed in.
More interesting reads on this subject if anyone cares: