Thanks.
Does anyone here have first-hand experience with the headband? How much actual modding is required in the case of sundara?
Wish the earcup was bigger. Runs hot on my ears 
Anyone have any good recommendations for some earpads i could put on my sundaras? something that maybe improves the bass as at times it feels like it lacks a bit and maybe also something that adds some highs/details as i am not very sensitive to treble and find myself eqing treble in on most headphones i try out. i would like to avoid compromising the soundstage as its something i admire a lot.
Question, which version of Sundara do you have? the OG or the 2020 version?
2020 revised pads version
Iâd take a look at Dekoni they have a few options with frequency graphs, i think maybe thee Velour might work for you but i could be totally off its been a while since i checked.
Zmf universal are great on them. I really enjoy them with mine or try any of the zmf ones. Just get rings off eBay or from Hifiman. They will work with the ZMF
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Mary Christmas, regarding the 5 band + bass and tremble of RME can you pls describe PEQ for SUNDARA you have applied.
thanks a lot
To any Apple Music subscribers + Sundara owners:
Since no DAP supports Appleâs rendition of Dolby Atmos/Spatial Audio, I tried running Atmos/Spatial (set to always on) with the Sundara via hip dac (4.4mm + power match on + xbass on). It is a markedly different and better headphone with the right Atmos/Spatial mix. What I noticed immediately is the improvement in the midrange. Vocals are more forward, have improved texture, transients, resolution and lushness. Imaging is more precise and different too, as one would expect in these mixes. Perceived stage gets a boost.
Crucially, this happens with competent mixes, not some of the rushed lemons that are still out there.
Atmos/Spatial adds a new dimension to the Sundara and, for the time being, quelled my appetite to look for new headphones. Itâs like owning two headphones in one.
EDIT: I shouldâve also suggested trying this on every headphone/IEM any of you own. The results may surprise you, for better or worse. The 64 Audio u12t I demoed with Atmos/Spatial went in the wrong direction, wasnât a good match, made vocals shouty.
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@audiotron I have found the same to be true with Dolby Atmos tracks from
AMHD. Sundaras seem to love it!
eg. Nora JonesâŠCome away with me. And John WilliamsâŠScherzo for motorcycle and orchestra. Both are D/Atmos for the whole album.
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I was just going to say, I have noticed the same thing. I have moved the Sundara into the bedroom system, using the V40 to stream AMHD over LDAC. Because I am using the mobile app, I have Atmos content available, and I have noticed the difference the Atmos makes. I really enjoy it. The Sundara is an incredible fit for this system.
Merry Christmas to you and to all.
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Not sure if anyone is mildly interested but I got curious and bought both a Sundara and a HE400se and swapped the headbands.
The swap took about 15 minutes.
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Hi, how do the screws work for these? Iâm looking at replacing the headband for a potentially broken pair of sundaras but Iâm not seeing a screw head inside to attach the outer screw to
When you unscrew the bolt you an see the thread which is inside the cup. There are washers between the screw and the arm and another between the arm and the cup.
I was setting up for tonightâs session, and I spied the Sundara out of the corner of my eye. I havenât listened to the Sundara in a long time, so I thought I would have some fun with it tonight. I dusted her off, connected up the HE1000 cable, which for whatever reason turns out to be a great pairing, fired up the Liquid Platinum, and went to work!
I had forgotten how good this headphone is. Donât get me wrong, Iâm not going to try and compare it to the Radiance or the HEK etc., but the Sundara is a very solid set that provides a fun and engaging listening experience. I have always loved the look and the comfort of them and if felt good to have them back on. They presented very neutral and flat initially, but after a little brain burn-in the dynamic range started to come in. I have always loved how this headphone presents vocals; slightly forward and incredibly clear. Since all the EQ profiles I had for this were obsolete due to equipment changes, I scrubbed them and bult some new ones, and now have great baseline profiles for the Liquid Platinum and the SA-9, though I think this will live mostly on the LP. I love to tinker with this kind of stuff, SO I had fun creating these new sound fields. I am surprised by how receptive the Sundara is to EQ. I find that I am able to really dial these in with the Peace APO and really get the best out of it.
Itâs been a great time re-discovering the Sundara. Again, not a world beater, but a classic looker and a very solid performer. I have thoroughly enjoyed tonightâs session with them. They are joy to have in the collection.
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@Raptor168 Amen! Still enjoy mineâŠand agree with the clean, forward vocals.
I seldom eq, but I like to add in a bit of low end to give them more body.
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I passed my Sundara along to a friend to get him into the hobby, and he is currently enjoying them hooked up to a Magni & Topping D50s. I do admit that I miss them for some genres of music, but I am glad that they are getting used on the regular. Out of the headphones that are currently on my desk, I would say that the Starry Night V1 has taken its place for that use case (granted the Sundara still does some things better).
I have the habit of passing audio gear and PC parts along to friends and family who can make use of them. 
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Hey, I need some advice regarding cables. My stock cable has contact issues, so I got 2 different third party cables, an open heart from aliexpress and another one I picked up at a local hifi store which should be pretty decent. Trying them Iâve noticed that with either one of them, there was an extreme amount of channel imbalance that wasnât there when I used the stock cables. I can still get my old cable to work at the right angle, so I double checked, and yep, the difference was instantly noticeable.
So whatâs causing my issue, is there a way to solve it, and if not then how do I get a cable that works?
Hifiman Sundara review: Like a magnifying glass. Too bad itâs also magnifying the treble (might be fixable with pads, but good luck finding âthe oneâ).
Letâs start with how they look like: Thereâs a lot of metal. They look and feel solid. They feel like theyâre going to last decades. Hifimans being hifimans, they probably wonât. But oh well. They look and feel like high quality stuff. Just donât throw em around.
After Nad HP50âs, HD6XXâs, and Fostex T50RPâs, I wanted to try something else. Better planars. Something a step above all I had. TL,DR: This is quite it. Thereâs an impressive amount of sub-bass, for open-backs. These obviously canât beat T50RP (closed-back planars) for bass quantity, but if you like bass and have to choose between HD6XXâs and these, well thereâs no question. I can confirm planar bass just works, doesnât matter if theyâre open-backs or closed-backs. Theyâre a step above all I got in details and theyâre a step above in the mids too â thereâs a ton of information. They also got too much treble to sound neutral to my ears (especially considering theyâre open-backs). Good soundstage width too, but with the original pads, theyâre lacking in soundstage depth. Sundaras also appear to have exchanged dynamics for compression, for the sake of detail. Iâm not complaining, itâs a different, interesting approach. Yes, theyâre very detailed. Still, despite all that, theyâre not at all âneutral, analytical, mechanical and boringâ. I repeat: Not at all.
Test was done with my XDuoo XD05 Basic DAC plugged into my Aune X7S (Class A) headphone amp.
Bass, mids, treble.
First: Definitely do NOT underestimate what very worn-out pads can do to Sundaras. I bought these Sundaras used, with very used pads. I plugged em straight into my XD05 Basic and activated the bass boost, enjoying them for hours and hours. Then I received these inexpensive pads. If I did not gain 5dB of bass and sub-bass, well⊠it might be 10dB. These are definitely my first open-backs to pass the âUDM - Oblivionâ sub-bass note test (at 0:55) â yes, without any bass boost, just⊠correct earpads. My HD6XXâs or Nad HP50âs donât pass this test. My modded Fostex T50RPâs hit like a truck, but yeah, itâs closed-back planar bass (and, basically Fostexâs signature). Def Leppard - Pour Some Sugar on Me got a decent amount of bass frequencies too, and the drum kicks, as they should, kick your ass.
Mids are all there. Joe Bonamassa - Walk in my Shadow sounds impressive. Instrument separation is great. Planar speed is apparent, without getting in the way of the musicâs naturalness (these do not sound sterile/mechanical like Fostex T50RPâs sometimes do). Do these give me the most natural, life-like mids of all I have? Probably. Sundaras mids got such an impressive amount of depth and information. And remember, I own HD6XXâs⊠Too bad Sundaras mids are more often than not âveiledâ⊠by their treble.
Treble is all there â and more. Too much for my treble-sensitive ears. Treble can be problematic. And thereâs also too much treble for just anyone, treble-sensitive or not, for em to sound âcorrectâ : Timbre is off. Hifiman treble is known for all the good and the wrong reasons. Thereâs no treble peak whatsoever, but these are just very clear-sounding headphones. Sound is just tilted towards ALL the treble, from the high-mids to 20khz+. Motorcycle - As The Rush Comes (Gabriel & Dresden Remix) is basically sibilance city. If you have a bass boost switch, it can help. Still, its treble can annoy. The little piercing, overly sharp overtones and harmonics are, most of the time, not annoying. But youâll KNOW theyâre there, and these treble-oriented headphones will ALWAYS remind you theyâre there, ready to make any damn recording which is slightly brighter than the norm terribly annoying to listen to (yes, these headphones are the enemies of 128kbps mp3 cymbals).
Long story short? Hifiman Sundaras feel like theyâre âtiltedâ from -2.5dB at 0hz to +2.5dB at 20 000hz. Theyâd be endgame if it was the exact opposite â especially for open-backs.
Technicalities
The technicalities remained the same, whatever the source. Even when I tried em with a tube amp, when tubes (or the impedance mismatch) smoothened the treble, all the detail was there. This means, this is not âfake detailâ. The treble-oriented-ness was not needed for Sundaras to sound detailed. They did not need to cheat. These are quick planars and every detail jumps at you. Everything is there. Compared to HD6XXâs, Nad HP50âs, Fostex T50RPâs, or my Hidizs MP145âs IEMs, these are less dynamic (i.e.: these donât punch as hard). Theyâre compressed (i.e.: the difference between the loudest and the most subtle sounds in songs is smaller â therefore you hear more detail). The planar âversionâ of Koss ESP-950/950âs? Probably (I donât own these⊠yet â but apparently theyâre electrostatics with a âcompressedâ sound). It seems like the Sundaras exchanged dynamics for compression for the sake of details. An interesting, different approach, resulting in an interesting, different experience.
Case in point, well, everything in Tom Waits - I hope I donât fall in love with you.
Mark Sandman - Early Man is uncanny valley territory, despite all the hiss in the background. It sounds as if the hiss was added over an excellent recording only for âartistic effectâ.
For speed? These also pass the âFleshgod Apocalypse - Pathfinderâ test. This song is very fast, and very demanding, and will sound like mud in a lot of headphones (and speakers). Here? Perfection. Itâs like the Sundaras tell me there could still be space for more instruments.
Parenthesis: These got to be the most âperfectionistâ headphones Iâve ever heard. I swear moving them up, down, left, or right on your ears for âXâ millimeters will affect the frequency response âXâ decibels somewhere. Want 2dB less treble? Move em 2 millimeters to the front. Yes. Both a plus and a minus: These take time to set perfectly on your head, but you can choose how theyâll sound â much more than any other headphones Iâve had (there will always be too much treble, though).
The downsides of a âcompressedâ sound.
A compressed sound means youâll always reach for the volume knob to hear more, if only because youâre used to the louder things âhittingâ harder, and want to ârockâ at the same volume than usual. But instead youâll get⊠kind of a wall of sound. Leave this volume knob alone! You donât need that much volume anymore: You already hear everything, just at a lower volume level than usual.
Soundstage width is ok, but doesnât have much depth (in front of you) though. Itâs âeye-shapedâ soundstage. Thereâs great, great instrument separation. But add said âcompressionâ to that, and it also means the âperimeterâ in Gidge - Perimeter appears way smaller (1:30 onwards paints a 20-foot-wide sphere with floorstanding speakers, with no care about if there are walls around the speakers or not, for example).
Compressed headphones means differences in dacs and amps are also magnified. Meaning any neutral or âcrisp and clearâ source will be a dice roll. The pairing might not give you life-like timbre, just something treble-oriented. Get anything âtubeyâ, Class A, and/or with a laid-back treble. Otherwise timbre will be off (Saying it again: They feel like theyâre âtiltedâ from -2.5dB at 0hz to +2.5dB at 20 000hz. Theyâd be endgame if it was the exact opposite â especially for open-backs. Therefore if you get any dac/amp making em sound even more treble-oriented, this wonât be good: Your âdarkestâ source is your best bet to get natural, life-like timbre).
Final thoughts: A very musical, very enjoyable âmagnifying glassâ.
What can I say. Bass is decent. Great for open-backs, âbecause planarâ. But they still kick way less than the recent, harman-tuned stuff, because they have the pre-2020 harman⊠bass canyon. Mids are top-tier. Detail is top tier. But treble is too much â always. If you want details above all, this is for you. If you listen to a lot of music and movies and videos and often wonder âwhat did they say?â, this is for you. If youâre getting old and lost a bit of the treble you used to hear, this will bring it all back for you. Often, âgamingâ headphones (actually made for gamers, not the plastic ones sold on Amazon with flashy RGB leds and disposable drivers) are a bit treble-oriented because it helps you hear footsteps. I donât play Counter-Strike/Tarkov/etc., but I reckon these can give you an advantage. Theyâre both compressed AND treble-oriented. Meaning Sundaras will kind of give you superhuman hearing.
Superhuman hearing? So, hmm, why donât I give em a glowing review like, pretty much everyone? Well, superhuman capacity to hear everything but especially in the treble region is the worst thing for me, and thatâs what Sundaras do. Because I already got this superhuman power, and I hate it (lol). Also, on hifiguides, I heard a lot of times that âopen back headphones were the way to goâ, because closed-backs were full of âcompromisesâ (?). Thatâs weird, because I always thought it was the opposite: I always preferred closed-back headphones. Most music is obviously recorded inside a studio room. Open backs⊠never give me the impression Iâm listening to a closed room. Open backs give me the impression the studio room moved outdoors (somehow). This is even more flagrant with these treble-oriented open-back Sundaras. Itâs as if theyâre artificially âremoving the ceilingâ of studio room recordings.
Yes, Iâm treble-sensitive. Yes, Iâm a perfectionist. But thatâs what being an audiophile is, basically: The search for perfection. If your headphones (or tweeters) are not as good as the âwhat kind of sorcery is thisâ-level of my Emotiva B1+'s EMT Tweeters, lower the treble by 2 or 3dB or, like the Sundaras treble, I wonât tolerate em much. If Rabbit Junk - Precipice (basically a treble torture test) hurts my ears on any headphones or speakers, this is not good enough for me. Still, if you donât listen to music (too) loud, if youâre a casual listener who doesnât sit like me with my headphones on for a minimum of multiple hours, yes, these headphones will be both a very musical, very clear-sounding, and very enjoyable magnifying glass.
(I find it quite funny that, when youâre treble-sensitive, these headphones obviously made to listen to music are just excellent for everything that is NOT music.)
Part 2: Changing the pads. AKA âI donât get it. Sundaras arenât 1 pair of headphones. Theyâre 1000 pairs of headphones.â
So, I destroyed the already-used-and-destroyed pads on my used Sundaras, only kept the round plastic âpuckâ â their non-standard way to âclipâ earpads to Sundaras â and Iâm now able to stick that âpuckâ inside any pads, and clip any pads to Sundaras. And if you started pad swapping with Sundaras⊠I sympathize. I already said changing the placement on your ears 1mm left-right-up or down changes the sound 1db, so just imagine what pad swapping does. The amount of times you can change the sound and even technicalities of em by just swapping pads is just madness.
- Get the standard pads for the obvious crisp, clear Sundara experience.
- Get 30mm depth, âSundara pads but leather-likeâ, and instead everything will be mid-oriented. More detail, but less dynamics, less soundstage, less treble and less bass. Makes for an excellent âstudio neutralâ sound (i.e.: Theyâll just be boring).
- Get huge-ass, leather-like angled pads, and youâll get a V-shaped, very dynamic and punchy, mind-blowing big soundstage depth, more-than-speaker-like 3D-holographic experience in which everything âjumps at youâ, all around you.
I swear, Hifiman are shooting themselves in the foot by not going âthe IEM routeâ (like some IEMs now shipped with multiple filters). Iâd ship em with the âvanillaâ pads by default, but Iâd add 10 curated pads to their website with a âchoose your additional Sundara flavorsâ. If you donât like the Sundaras sound⊠try different pads.
P.S.: Yes, I know, I donât have the official âpali padsâ. Theyâre 50$ + 25$ shipping here. USD. I donât even know if I paid 25$ shipped for the no-name Amazon pads I have, and I donât think the official ones will tame the highs. Sundaras will still be Sundaras anyway.