IEM discussion thread (Part 1)

that implies im happy lol :upside_down_face:

but seriously i just like upgrading and often an OCD about trying to get the best

i actually am also trying to figure out what i will do for amp or dac sideā€¦ my future phone wont have an SD card slot so i almost wonder about getting a dap (since Bluetooth is inherently lossy and if Iā€™m paying for lossless i wanna listen in lossless, Bluetooth would mostly be only for lossy video playback like Netflix or youtube)ā€¦ dongles are also good for potential but then you lose the ability to charge your phone a lot of the time unless you go full wireless charging (which maybe but probably not)

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Portable units like the BTR5 or 5K for the flexibility of either Bluetooth or USB-C. Being able to get up and walk away is nice, but having the option for better sound quality when wired is pretty cool too. They also give you balanced connections and the extra power that goes with that.

Desktop DAC/Amp have tons of decision points right out of the gates, do you want separates, or an integrated, what type of connectors? Something like a ZenDac or Topping DX3Pro+ would be a simple solution for under $200. I probably lean toward the ZenDac, but only because I can get balanced for far less than the other other options here. The first Schitt balanced option is the Magnius / Modius setup at $400. Separates let you experiment more, and I get the appeal of saying you had a ā€œstack of Schiit on your deskā€.

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These devices are incredibly useful, especially in a WFH environment. I have my ES100 connected to both my phone and PC for music, calls, and virtual meetings. Indispensable for me.

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Getting my balanced Xhins cable tomorrow!! Iā€™m so pumped although I really wish I got a right angle connectorā€¦ Oh well

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Gonna be a short but fun weekend! Got home to these lilā€™ babies tonight, and I should have a fresh set of RikuBuds Riders coming in the mail tomorrow!


Iā€™ve only had these open for ~30 minutes now, but a couple of quick observations:

  • Theyā€™re keepers. I really hope that Dunu revisits this tuning for the Falcon Pro later for people who couldnā€™t get their hands on them!
  • Iā€™ve only messed with the reference nozzles so far, but they are natural and warm without being overly thick. Could be my imagination, but that EclipsE driver seems to be doing its magic with the lowend (graph doesnā€™t look it but they are dynamic and punch for DAYS)
  • Not sure about isolation from outstide noise (listening in a quiet basement), but they leak sound almost like earbuds or open backs. They seem like they leak more sound than the Hook X!
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Glad you like them!!! I need to get back to them. I loved every minute so far!

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Between the Titan S, These and the Vulkan, Dunu really seem to be on a roll!

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I spent the day with zen pro as well. Oh boi

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A btr5 seems right up my alley but when your phone has no SD card expansion (what the hell Google) that means every flac I have is completely pointless as my as my SD card is bigger than the actual storage

Thatā€™s the only reason Iā€™m thinking of a dapā€¦ otherwise btr5 is easy (I know mqa is a meme but I get lossless for cheaper from tidal so I actually need it)

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Please :pray: tell us itā€™s not worth it :money_with_wings:

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You should take a look at stuff like Shanling M0 or Q1 and Sony Walkman A55.
I had Q1, have A55 now and I can tell you that I am more than happy for everyday usage. Q1 was more powerful (Audiosense T800 at cir. 30/100 at high gain) and functional (DLNS, WiFi for data transfer on top of A55 had) and had also good battery and low output impedance so amazing device for IEMs.
For example I never turned it off, so it was constantly on standby and it lasted for more than 2 weeks in my use case.
M0 is like mini version of it with smaller screen and battery.

I sold Q1 and replaced it with Qudelix 5k because I thought I preferred streaming, but sooner I regretted not having dedicated piece of device to be used instead of phone everywhere. I ended up with Sony and I love the device for my use case. Battery life is amazing (forgiving using proprietary connector because of that fact) and what is most important the small and thin form factor is best in class making the usability top level for both stationary and more importantly on the go usage. I cannot imagine having bricks like M11 or higher on the go.

You could think that the power is low, but that probably depends on what you want to use it with. With any of my IEMs it is plenty powerful (MEST, S12 and Tea)

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You touch on something which I think is huge, but never talked about.

When I got my MEST I was looking heavily into sources and realized that there is no such thing as a ā€œgood sourceā€ regardless of the device it powers. The perfect MEST amp will be very different from the perfect 600 Ohm Beyerdynamic amp and I donā€™t think there is a perfect amp to cover both at the same time.

I think here is a very interesting read in regards to that (though I donā€™t agree with the conclusion/solution):

Some keypoints:

  • While the Campfire Andromeda is specified at a very low 12.8 ohm, ā€œThe real measured impedance is around 4Ohm below 300Hz with 7.5Ohm at 1kHz and 21-24Ohm from 7khz to around 10kHzā€. I believe the impedance curve of all EST tribrids is generally terrible (I think I looked it up, but canā€™t recall).
  • ā€œlowering load impedance below the specified minimum increases distortion, possibly significantly, say we go from 16 Ohm to 4 Ohm distortion goes up approx. 9 timesā€
  • ā€œOne consequence of using loads lower than the specified minimum is that maximum output power is reduced below specification, as the amplifier will limit the output current.ā€

Most amps arenā€™t really designed for <32 Ohm and even less so for <6 ohm. A spec of impedance output ā€œ<1 Ohmā€ is not good enough when it comes to ESTs and a spec of ā€œ<0.1 Ohmā€ seems good, but its accuracy is questionable (at what frequency range? how is it even measured?). Most expensive DAPs/DACs/Amps are focused on power delivery for over ear headphones, not IEMs.

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Ahahah, itā€™s probably a keeper for classical and jazz, but I will help you by saying no iem is worth 900usd :stuck_out_tongue:

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you should beā€¦!! itā€™s amazing. itā€™s even more gorgeous in person than in picture. it looks bright and shiny on certain angles and dark on some. it makes for a very mysterious look. I see it as a piece of jewelryā€¦!
but beware itā€™s quite heavy at about 30g (vs stock 13g) ā€¦! and I have to somehow clip it otherwise itā€™ll be really uncomfortable for me. but itā€™s ok if clipped.

OI is only a pain with iems with uneven impedance response + low impedance. And that is pretty much all hybrids.

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This was a very interesting read but a majority of this is so over my head, itā€™s frustrating not being able to understand most of it. I still have a lot of work to do in the hobby because Iā€™d love to be able to read stuff like this and things that @Rikudou_Goku writes and have a full understanding of it.

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Basicaly: Amps are designed for different purposes. Even if you have the best amp for headphones, it might suck for iems and vice-versa.

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I definitely appreciate you putting it in simpler terms for sure. Gotta do my self some research with some simpler terminology in order to get a grasp of sources and what not

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Oh mani didnā€™t even think about this. I got a short one so hopefully that trims a lot of weight but Iā€™ll weigh it and see

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The reason why headphone amps might not suit iems. Is that with headphones, you rarely have anything low resistance, in fact you have stuff with a few hundred ohms and the majority of headphones are single driver, either planar or dds.

Planars and DDs, both have a FLAT impedance curve. What this means is that with a different output impedance (the impedance that the amp has at the output), the FR will NOT change. Coupled with the high impedance of headphones (which makes the OI difference negligble), the OI (output impedance) does not really matter at all for them.

While having a high impedance also means that the headphones want to eat as much voltage as possible. This is different from the current (watt) that iems want to have. You can think of it like different types of fuel.

So with an amp designed for headphones, they will have high voltage AND possibly high OI (which does not matter for them).
If you use this on an iem, that high OI will cause trouble with the FR and possibly make them hiss. The high voltage might not have enough current to actually drive the iem well, even though it is ā€œpowerfulā€ by having a lot of voltage.

Then with iems, since they are low impedance, that also means that the amp will limit the current it is outputting.

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