Im curios about vivace and magicone ngl. magicone looks like it has an interesting tuning
MagicOne is very mids-focused. Excellent mids. A bit bass-light with stock tips, with resolving treble that rolls off.
Be warned: The MagicOne is very tough to drive. Youāll need a powerful dongle or desktop gear to run it to peak fidelity. It wonāt sound great straight out of a phone or an Apple dongle.
Tip rolling also is essential if you want more bass from the MagicOne. The Final Type Eās work great for me. Youāll also get a bit of BA timbre, which is understandable since the MagicOne is single BA.
But the MagicOne has special tuning. Reminds me a lot of the HD 6XX/HD 650 over-ear. Not a great all-arounder but really special with mids-focused music.
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yeah im curios just bcs of the tuning. i dont think its something i like since i like a warm neutral tuning. but trying different tuning can be fun
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Iām the biggest warm-neutral guy on Earth ā the ānew metaā works for me so much better than Harman ever did. Yet, I still love the MagicOne because itās different done so well.
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Sorry Iām late to the party, but Iāll give my thoughts and experience.
For a bluetooth / USB dongle DAC amp I really like the Fiio BTR 7. Itās sounds fantastic with the thx amps, has LDAC Bluetooth and works perfectly as a USB dongle DAC on Mac, PC phone and tablet. It also has a car mode if you use 3.5mm aux in your vehicle.
Portable digital audio player (DAP) I recently purchased 2 or the Hiby R4 , one is the Evo special edition, and my my wife bought the R6 gen3. I love the R4 and it sounds fantastic, and I donāt mean it sounds fantastic at the price, it sounds fantasticā¦ Period.
It was enough power to play my 300ohm HD800S with the 4.4 bal out. It plays all my IEM from the ie200 or the U12T great. It has peq and is bit perfect.
I gave the first one I purchased to my brother and he uses it mainly at his desk as a desk top amp and he loves it.
For a inexpensive desk top all in 1 I really like the Fiio k11 and the K11 R2R. I purchased them both to test and decided to keep the R2R because I didnāt currently have an R2R DAC.
That said the regular $129US k11 is a more neutral clean tone and the R2R version is a little warmer and more musical sounding. So itās a little better at taming bright head phones and iem.
If youāre just starting I think any of those 3 will fit what your looking for depends on what you want.
Get the BTR7 if you plan on using your phone Bluetooth and it can be connected to PC via USB.
Get the R4 if you want a device that can store and play back music (I download my playlist from Amazon music HD) itās a separate device from my phone that I can use off line. It can also be used with PC through USB.
Get the K11 or K11 R2R if you want a compact, full featured desk top solution. It has 3 times the power output vs my other 2 options so it can play harder to drive headphones and iem with more dynamics.
Just my opinion if I was suggesting to someone new to the hobby.
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So, I know some people will say DAC donāt make a difference or sound that different. This is NOT true, it is a hard topic to explain though.
A headphone / IEM will make the most immediate and noticable change in sound.
DAC on the other hand as some one else said do change the sound depending on the DAC chip used, how the circuit is implemented, the number of DAC chips used.
Some DAC like the new FIIO k11 R2R are noticable warmer sounding vs all my other DAC. Thatās due to the resistor ladder circuit design. This also makes the DAC portion of the K11 sound less analytical and more musical. Think tube-ish sounding.
When I use the R2R DAC and connect it to my tube amp, I hate it. Connected to my Rupert Neve is pretty good, etc. so it noticably changes the sound , and dynamics of the amps which itās connected.
I used to use a Geshelli Labs Enog and it was great. I tried it on one of their newer amps and it sounded a bit off to me, I upgraded to one of the JNOG and it was like a light switch. The change in quality on that amp was drastic and the resolution, dynamic, all changed.
It sounds way different vs the R2R and slightly different not the Enog.
ES Saber often Sound different from AKM, and some people will tell you the older AKM chips sound different to the newer chips after the factory in Japan had a huge fire a couple years ago.
So DAC are the icing on the cake, they can and do change the sound, and dynamics, of an amp, which in turn changes the way headphones sound.
Thatās the reason some people mention synergies between headphones and amps and also DAC.
another aspect is the output voltage. As stated, the voltage is like boosting the engine of a car, some engines take well to more power others donāt.
The Geshelli JNOG and many others have multiple levels of output and some amps can make use of the higher output which in return can noticable change the perceived sound , such as increased low end slam/ impact (dynamics).
Increased dynamics can definitely increase the enjoyment and perceived sound of a headphone. It might be dull and dark on DAC gain 1 but come to life and be impactful in the low end and sparkle on the high end on Gain mode 3.
At the same time some of my amps sound better on mode 2, hardly any sound good on output level 1.
So in a round about way DAC can drastically change the sound and dynamics of a headphone/IEM.
The wrong DAC or wrong DAC output setting can definitely make a headphone /iem not sound good, and it can sound amazing with a different DAC or different DAC setting.
Iāve only learned this by testing a large number of DAC, DAC chips, amps, headphones and iems.
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Unlike IEMs and headphones, whose measurement accuracy is improving but still subject to a number of unknowns due to the varied nature of human anatomy, DACs do not interface directly with the human body and can be measured objectively. I highly recommend the DAC reviews on audiosciencereview. We donāt need to guess how DACs perform and if or how they change the sound; that information is available and standardized.
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And did you do this with them all volume matched properly? How long did it take for you to switch between each of them?
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I used to review audio for a tech website so yes, they were a volume matched by playing the same tone and measuring the volume.
The time is seconds. I have my DAC connected to an 8 way rca distribution block so all the amps can be on at the same time and outputting audio.( though they never are)
I have right now 8 amps on my desk right now. I just turn on the ones I want to compare and it takes the time it takes to unplug and reconnect the headphone / iem.
Iām looking into buying an RCA switcher so I can swap DACs more quickly. Currently, swapping source output requires a click on the PC, and Iād like it to be a millisecond switch.
Also, when If the DAC has multiple gain output modes, that will affect the volume of an amp. However, you can set a volume level per gain mode and at the same volume Iāve noticed more slam / impact from the amp and headphones 
The DAPs are compared literally side by side, sitting on my desk, both open and set to the same song, etc. Itās the same as unplugging / plugging the IEM/ Headphones.
I can time it if you want, but my guess is under 5 seconds for the DAP and less than that on the desktop amps, as the desktop amps are just unplug / plug, while the DAP is unplug/plug and tap play.
Iām not trying to come off as a know-it-all. This is just my experience so it can be taken with a grain of salt. We all hear things differently.
Edit: DAP, as I mentioned, the R6 Gen 3 and R4 have different Amp designs but sound very similar if you arenāt critically listening. A/B, I will say the, and I know itās not the best way to describe it, but the R6 III has a sweetness and refined resolution. Itās only slightly better than the R4, which has a larger soundstage.
Upon researching (AFTER ), I noticed this from my listening. I came across an article comparing Opamp vs. Transister-based amp design, and the explanation of the sound difference is precisely what you would expect.
Opamp-based amps can output more power, and a side effect of the design is often a larger soundstage. Transistor-based amps will often output less power and tend to sound more closed in (less soundstage), but if implemented correctly, they will sound smoother and more resolving.
The spec of both devices bears this out. The R4 while cheaper, has higher power output and sounds damn close unless you really, really listen critically, though the soundstage change is the most obvious difference when you a/b them
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I know this is an IEM discussion, so I donāt want to clog this up, but here is a simple (not the best test) but nonetheless an easy one to do.
If you have a DAC with various gain settings.
Download a decibel meter app to your phone and set your Headphones on a desk and place the phone between the ear cups, or if IEM place them near the Microphone.
DONāT MOVE THEM UNTIL YOU ARE FINISHED SETTING YOUR LEVELS.
Set the DAC to gain 1 and choose a decent volume that you normally listen to on your headphones. Play the video and record that volume level from the app; write it down. If possible, adjust the volume slightly so that you get a whole number, as itās easier to remember.
Example: If you get 75.2 db , turn the amp down slightly until its 75db constantly.
if you can get a piece of tape, or some way of marking the volume on the amp.
Repeat this again for the other gain levels on the DAC (a few have 3 gain modes)
With this done and assuming you havenāt moved the phone and headphones you should be way closer to volume matching vs the human ear.
Now play the same song at the matching volumes across all the gain levels. You will almost certainly notice the music becoming more dynamic/impactful on the higher gain modes even when the volume output is matched.
My point is the DAC output at the same volume can and does impact the sound, so if you have a DAC / DAC chip that outputs more voltage it will change the perception of the sound that we hear.
We can argue that the sound frequency itself might not actually be changing (so it sounds is the same ) but subjectively I think most people will notice a difference.
Itās like playing your favorite song at an average listen volume vs that same song at a concert or blasting it in the car. Iād argue the G cord of the guitar is still a G cord, but subjectively it will feel different, and weāre not machines so many people may perceive it as sounding better with more dynamics (punch) across the tonal range
Not to mention I think like amp designs some DAC chips and they way they are implemented have more or less resolution. I noticed that jumping from the Modi > Enoj > Jnog. The same amps that I have listened to for years and the same songs just sound better.
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First of all - I really appreciate you going the high road of trying the actual test with volume matching and I respect your final findings even though they do not align with my experience, beliefs and understanding of the world 
There is not a lot of people that spent their time on this - well, in the end kind of pointless in some sense - test.
Your method is as good as it gets in normal home environment. The only 2 things for me that may be a bit questionable (in sense that those may affect the findings) are:
a) the proposed testing is done with concious knowledge of what you are hearing, so your brain may play tricks on you with inherent biases
b) the time for gain switch + volume adjustment is not very small when done manually + plus the process is cumbersome to be repeated multiple times. Knowing our echoic sound memory only āstoresā the good reproduction of sound heard for period counted in seconds (some sources say it may be as small as 4s) it may not be enough to really compare what we hear or believe w hear.
Both of those may be solved with automatic blind AB handling script that would be operating with the digital volume from the source to the DAC, but it has itās own caveat of base digital signal level differences.
Well, it is like comparing apples to oranges - different volume, different room, different source positioning. At source the G cord may be same (in terms of fundamental frequency and harmonics), but along the path until it arrives to your ear it would bounce off multiple objects affecting the FR + phase.
With headphones comparisons should be much closer to each other 
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I agree with your points here @pylaczynski 
I respect the effort @epic225 and that you appreciate the differences you hearā¦ in the end that may be the only imortant thing. In general, blinding is extremely important if you want to assert the the differences are audible beyond placebo. Nothing wrong with placebo, but it can be, perhaps unnecessarily so, expensive 
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This is my big problem directly comparing IEMās. I honestly think my timeframe is zeroš
What happens is the the new IEM immediately nullifies tha last. I have to put in hours over days or weeks to make up my mind, and the decision happens subconsciously more of less. I just realize I like one over the other. 
Edit: typos
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Golden Sound Truly Blind A/B/X Test
Paul Mcgowen from PS audio on DAC
I love this forum because we can respectfully disagree. This is the last point Iāll make and again my opinion as well as others. One of which (golden sound) tested in the manner you mention and was able to get it right. The only possibility of guessing right that many times is .02%
His findings ultimately showed that he could hear the top of the frequency range and that hearing 20,000 khz was the telltale sign of which DAC was which.
This is probably true when you get to the very upper end of DAC and probably amps, too. Toward the top, the DAC and opamps used are probably the same as there are only ever so many of the ābestā components you can throw into a flagship DAC or AMP.
The DAC and Amps Iāve tested are mostly mid to maybe a couple upper mid-tier and the difference in that range is likely the major cause of the sound difference. The components and the typology of the circuit design vary widely from the DAC chip used (ESS or AKM) and the Version of the chip used, they are not the same. (though youād expect them to sound similar) Ex. ES sable DAC āsaber glareā.
There are tons of people who can blindly listen to a headphone setup (with their personal headphones) and pick out the saber glare without knowing the internals of the DAC. (How is this explained)
Tube amps have distortion, and the distortion is part of what gives the warm tube sound; Iām not sure if there are many people who will not agree with this. (though some newer tube hybrid amps can sound cleaner than older designed tube amps)
It just so happens that R2R DACs sound warmer and are proven to have more distortion due to the resistor ladder design. Again, more distortion, warmer sound.
Logic would dictate that distortion is the reason for the warmer sound. Since distortion is measurable, how can one agree that my Jnog DAC and my inexpensive Fiio K11 R2R sound the same?
I know for a fact Iāve gone to my desk plugged in headphones, and something sounded off, only to realize the wrong DAC was being used. This is as blind as it gets not remembering and audibly hearing that something doesnāt sound right.
Next video is Golden Sound saying that he recommends a decent DAC, which I guess you could take as a sales pitch for Headphones.com of just good advice.
The last video is Paul from PS Audio explaining that all DAC are not the same especially the throw-in ones like on a CD player arenāt designed to be the best, they are designed to work. Again heās saying that DAC make a difference.
I appreciate your feedback, and I think, ultimately, weāll just have to agree to disagree, at least below the flagship tear.
I think DAC, AMP, and Headphone/ IEM start to have a place with limited return, so I think at some point hearing difference becomes harder and harder.
In fact, I was thinking about this last night. I think you can get about 90% as good as it gets for under 2k with headphones and maybe less than that with IEM and ChiFi. So at the end of the day, the DAC is like I said the icing on the cake, thatās part of that last 10% once you find a IEM / Headphone and amp.
Side note: I dozed off listening to my HD800S after taking the dog out and when I woke up it was euphoric sounding, I forget what song was playing but it made me smile, it was fantastic.
I looked down and I was playing from the R4 DAP that I was using while taking the dog out. The sound could be completely end game and that was with a $300 DAP and DAC and AMP.
So, to @yogurt reply, I think you are right. Many people can stop at a very reasonable price. We stopped chasing perfect.
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I went to Canjam Dallas last week and listened to a ton of IEM, my personal end game is the U12T after getting them nothing quite sounds as good over all to my personal preference, though the Oden and Alpha Omega came close. Comfort was a problem with a few though.
That said If there is anything like a CanJam near you or a place where you can try a bunch of IEM try to go. I learned a lot.
I didnāt like the Campfire audio Trifecta, they just didnāt sound good to my ear and werenāt comfortable, The Astrolith was super dark sounding and I quickly took them off, the Moon River was the best balanced of the Campfire Audio I listened to and they happen to be the ācheapestā
I personally own the Sennheiser IE200 and think they sound pretty decent overall and the most comfortable IEM that Iāve ever used, I tried the IE900 first and it was a Bass and Treble monster!!! It was glaring , harsh, and not what I was expecting from a flag ship IEM from Sennheiser. I then listened to the IE600 and it was the goldie locks IEM in the range, I see why it gets the praise it does, its completely worth the $600 and I could see it being someone end game for sure, its that good. I want to buy one. The IE200 sounds better to listen to vs the IE900 in my opinion though you could argue it has better (more bass) and higher treble extension (maybe with EQ it could be the chose of the 3) but listening to the IE900 was RUFF.
I listened to the 64 audio Solo, Meze Alba, and the other Sennheiser listed above and all are single diver though the Solo is a planar. Most of them were noticeably different from the same company.
However, this is when things get tricky, the reason I didnāt like the Campfire Audio, or the IE900, and a ton of others is because they didnāt match my listening preferences. When various brands has a product that does match my listening preference (tuning) it becomes hard.
A balanced sound becomes a balanced sound.
Good bass is good bass.
Clean treble is clean treble.
Good detail retrieval is good detail retrieval.
Comfort is comfort.
I think for my preferences the IE600 out the box could be practically end game and a little eq might make them even better. However, overall they canāt hold a candle to the U12T when you really start critically listening. Its that looking for the last 10% thing. Spend $600 and get 90% with a little EQ or spend $2,200 to get another 10% and get Final Boss / God Tier with eq (for my preference).
Iām rambling, but Iām just suggesting that when youāre around a lot of them, they can sound WAY different, as some wonāt match your preference, no matter the price. I really disliked the Trifecta. Maybe I need to listen longer, but I think the tuning just isnāt for me.
Once you start listening to IEM that fit your preference is when things begin to sound really similar (in my experience) its at that point listening become critical. You start listening for bass texture and treble smoothness, detail retrieval etc.
Iām WAY deep into this hobby but Iāve learned now that if you have the will power to stop at 90% you can save a lot of money and time and just enjoy the music.
I think the above though is only really true of the last 5 or so years though, I think its possible to get really good audio for MUCH cheaper than existed 6+ years ago.
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I think you enjoy a more neutral type of tuning. Moon Rover, U12t and IE200 more or less is right there. Did you hear Fathom?
And please just ramble on if you want to! I enjoyed reading your post!
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Something got me thinking a bit.
Sharur ( Yes ! I donāt take him seriously ) told in one of his recent videos that transducers canāt produce difference in timbre. Itās a difference between how a perticular instrument sounds.
The first half of the statement , I donāt agree upon. Since I experienced BA / Planar timbre a lot.
And once while having a conversation with @Rikudou_Goku he said that exact same FR can produce different timbre on different drivers. Which is also I felt in my personal listening.
So my question is, why few BA & Planar driver produce exceptional timbre while some DD can produce metallic timbre ? ( Ofc , itās FR )
But then the deviation of realistic reproduction of the instrument is also depends on the FR. So it defines Rikuās statement a bit inconclusive.
My question it , how they achieve good timbre then ? What is the procedure ? I heard a few people talking about the correlation between Diffuse Field and Timbre but ultimately what is the cause ?
I was not thinking about DACs/AMPs with obvious measurable signal differences caused by inherently designed distortions (like tubes or R2R in some cases), but about clean delta sigma ones which are the most common ones those days and where those differences are far below theoretical audibility
Paul from PS Audio has a horse in the race, so even though he is extremely well spoken and seems like incredibly nice guy I would discard his opinion. GoldenSound is in kind of similar situation, but I think sure, letās agree to disagree, there are more important things to run atilt about 
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Transducers with good timbre tends to not be overly fast in their attack/decay which is usually what Planars and BAs do compared to DDs. The opposite is also true that if it is too slow in attack/decay it can also make the timbre worse, but I find that TOO SLOW is better than TOO FAST.
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No, I didnāt listen; I wish I would have. When it was all over, I realized that there were a few things that I wanted to or should have taken the time to listen to.
CanJam Dallas isnāt as packed with people like NY and SoCal so its a good show to really get some listening time in and a good chance to talk to various people. Golden Sound, DMS, and Jason from Schiit Audio were there just to name a few, and all of them were easily accessible.
I really wanted to like Campfire; Iāve always just felt like I wanted the Andromedia, but no one sold them close enough that I could listen to them, and when the Emerald Sea was released, they were tuned differently, and I didnāt want to blind buy them. I wish Iād have asked Campfire if they had brought them. (Side note the founder of Camp Fire was there also).
It seems like your preference might be similar to mine. If thatās the case, I bought the wife the Meze Alba, and they are right up there with the IE200 / IE600. They sound fantastic, and the build is next-level for the price.
After getting the U12T, I could honestly never buy a headphone or IEM again. It is the endgame for my sound preference. Iād only be looking at very small gains in certain areas at this point, and the cost would be extremely high, I feel.
(Of course, I bought 3 more Headphones and IEM at Canjam)
Hi, My name is Jules and I have a problemā¦ lol
If I remember right, the Oden sounded fantastic, with awesome bass and clarity, but the fit was bad for my ears. The omega was very similar in the brief time I listened but the fit was much better, closer fit wise to something like a blessing 3.
My takeaway as far as IEM goes(and this is not really knowing the prices of what I tested other than the Sennheiser )
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The IE600 is an easy blind buy for most people, and I think its sound and comfort are worth the money.
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IE900 is a no-go for me.
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After owning the IE200 and testing the IE600 and IE900 you can tell they are all in the same family. The 200 is a great IEM at the price, but the increase in sound quality and quantity across the board are worth the increased asking price. Anyone interested in the IE900 should listen to them first or be able to return them IMO.
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The Meze Alba (we purchased a pair) sounds great for the price and I think the build quality, and the included accessories as a total package punch above its $159 asking price (if you like the more neutral tuning).
The 64 Audio Solo sounds fantastic for a single Planar and sounded much better than the Campfire Audio Astrolith (I only listen to both for a few minutes). I believe the price is similar, and if it was my money, Iād get the Solo from what I heard.
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The 64 Audio U4s sounded even better than the Solo and get you really close to the sound and feel of the U12 for about half the price. If I were comparing the Solo vs. the U4s, I think the U4s is the more capable IEM with the multi-driver setup. In listening, the Solo and U4s do sound different, but I think Iād lean more towards the U4s, and theyāre actually cheaper.
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The Campfire Audio Trifect just felt kind of flat and lifeless to me in the brief time I listened to it; I had no idea it was the flagship model. Again this is my listening preference and a brief time listening to it. If I get the chance to listen for an extended period I will to see if the way I feel holds true, but I found it lacking across the board. It was just a really boring sound (to my ears) if Iām honest.
The Astrolith is a Dual Planar driver, and it sounded technically good but dark. It was really lacking the sparkle in the high end that I think helps bring life, fun, and excitement to music. Snare and symbol hits seemed recessed or dull. They were present, just veiled. Itās not as bad as the Trifecta, though.
After talking to Campfire and asking for something a little brighter I was given the Moon Rover and was told it was more balanced. It was more balanced across the frequency range, I wouldnāt say it was as good as the U4s or even the IE600, but it was better. If it was priced like the IE600 I could see an argument for it. At its current price, I think you can find a lot of IEM that would sound better or similar for less.
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Itās hard to see the U12t as a deal but after listen to various IEM the ones that I thought sound as pleasing to listen to were all above the price of the U12t
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You can get shockingly close to the sound of the U12t for half the price with the U4s.
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This is a big one. As stated in a previous post, you donāt have to spend thousands of dollars to get a good-sounding possible end-game system.
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Off-topic Headphone talk: I listen to the WW acoustic normal and Golden Sound edition, and meh. The wife and I preferred the non-Golden Sound version, but Iām not sure I could justify the price tag. I donāt know that they stood out vs the 800S or HE1000 or the unveiled series, or The Meze Empyrean 2.
The Meze 105 sounds really close to the 109 Pro, and I can see it becoming their best-selling headphone. The Driver design is I want to say is exactly the same but the materials used are cheaper and the earcups are an amazing plastic design, Iām pretty sure the earpads are the exact same as the 109 pro. Itās that 90% thing again. I think the 105 gets you 90% of the 109 sound for half the price. (Wife is waiting for the release in early December) Might be her Christmas present
The Dan Clark E3 is an easy buy at the price, they sound absolutely worth it. I will be picking up a pair soon. (closed back endgame for me so far)
The Woo Audio lineup of amps donāt miss. Every one of them sounded good. I think the sweet spot the the WS8 Eclipse, my next amp for sure. It use the power supply to charge a battery inside, the Amp/DAC then use the cleaner power from the battery and not the noisy power supply. It sounds magical on headphones and can be used with IEM. It has more of a tube sound vs the fireflies and it is more compact and meant to be āportableā
The tube mini also sounded great, but it was being used in the $299 stand, which does the same thing as the WS8. It has a battery and is weighted to eliminate unwanted noise. NOTE: it does not have to output the Fireflies or WS8 Eclipse, but it should have no problem with IEM and sensitive headphones.
Bluetooth, we listened to the new True Wireless from Technics and Noble. The Technics stood out as being better than the run-of-the-mill TWS, I didnāt try Noise Canceling etc, only the sound quality.
My oldest wants to get the Noble TWS, which they release in a couple of weeks.
I didnāt go listen to the fat freq ( I should have) but I didnāt.
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