đź”· iFi ZEN CAN Headphone Amplifier

Equipment / Electronics / Gear / Accessories [Official] Headphone Amps
11

Man, my wallet cries every time you suggest something to pair with the Elegia. It can only take so much! :sob:

Just kidding, great review man, congrats! Really love your approach, and if I may I will give some thoughts based on what I’ve read and what I know from an Engineer point of view:

First, the whole ifi marketing: it’s bad, and I would say you should always be wary of a company that gives power rating in V@Ohm loads. That’s why I really think companies should be very transparent about how they measured any values, cause things can be technically true and yet, very misleading.

Second, a lot of what you described with high impedance loads seems to me it may be related to both their power choice and the topology. Class A, despite being very linear, is a PAIN to work with variable loads. It’s possible you’re experience distortion in bass because lower frequency demands more power, i.e. more current since you need a greater excursion from the driver. Couple this with a limited power budget, since I imagine they use a boost converter(1) for the output voltage to be 15V; and there you go, your amp output is a distorted mess. This seems especially true when you consider the Pro iDSD uses either a 9V/6.7A or an 18V/3.35A (total 60W) for supply, even if it does more stuff than the Zen CAN. If you’re interested, try getting a higher amperage PSU and you will see the distortion will move even further (for reference, the iFi power X gets the current to 3A).

Anyway, just adding a little on the technical side. Again, great write-up! I’m still curious about iFi products, but I think if I get anything will go to the iDSD signature or other higher stuff.

(1)Just for info, a boost conversion usually gets the supply voltage up, from 5V to 15V, for example. It, however, limits down the maximum current output, so as to maintain power balance. (V x I at input = V x I at the output, without considering losses)

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12

Thanks for the thoughts! I doubt I’ll invest in a much bigger power supply for this unit. Every extra dollar I spend on it is a mark against it, IMO. When it’s only $30 less than the Asgard 3 but you have to spend at least that to get it to perform anywhere close to Asgard 3, just buy the Asgard 3.

I figured iFi would have to be doing something to convert a 5V input to a >15V output, regardless of at what frequency they measure that output. I know enough physics to know that the amplifier simply can’t put out more energy than it can pull from its power supply - that’s simply the law of conservation of energy. So to get to that 15V they have to cut the current output to stay at or under the 12.5W the PSU can deliver. And yeah, I don’t know of an amplifier that can output as much energy as it sucks out of the wall as there is inevitably losses to heat and so forth.

As far as the Class A topology of the CAN goes, in reading their website I’m not convinced it’s a fully class A amp. They talk about using an op-amp that looks like it probably does most of the signal amplifying. The class A portion might just be a final little circuit right at the output to give it a flavor of “class A sound.”

You are right about headphones generally being a challenging load - especially dynamic headphones. The impedance curves of dynamic drivers tend to be U-shaped due to the increased resistance an inductor puts on a circuit at high frequencies and the increased difficulty of controlling the driver around its natural resonant frequency. That makes bass especially challenging and also where the most energy is needed.

OK, now I’m just being a nerd and need to shut up. Thanks again!

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13

Huahuahuahua it’s in my profile, I’m a full-time tech nerd, so this is my kind of talk. :rofl:

From what I’ve read, specially in the Pro iDSD material, they use a regular opamp input stage, which probably still is class A; and a output stage “with discrete components” probably some form of push-pull configuration with JFETs, which can handle way more current than MOSFETs.

Still, there is so much you can do when limiting supply current. Low power and Low voltage designs are a pain in the butt. You need to do weird stuff to avoid distortion and other non-linearities. :expressionless:

14

Nice review of a product that made me interested in it for being… “short sighted”.

Looking at the pictures IFI published, why would they blurr the component values? Any hobby tinkerer can tell you those are not expensive.

Concerning the power supply dependency: The blurred caps look like 100 or 180uF 16V caps (probably Panasonic el-cheapo tier). Benefit of the doubt, I say maybe 1mF (= 1000uF) of caps in there.
Cheaping out on caps like that does not induce confidence in the quality of the other components.

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15

Yet another clear and well thought out review… I look forward to these and thoroughly enjoy the work put into them…keep it up @WaveTheory

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16

You mention it struggling with DT880 600ohms, is this from an unbalanced perspective?
I have the CAN running a balanced mod for 880s and I can’t say I’ve noticed any issues, but them I’m hardly an audiophile either.

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17

I found the only difference balanced or unbalanced made with the DT880 is at what volume level the bass fell apart, well really the whole sound fell apart, IMO. The balanced output delayed said falling apart by about 3-5dB, depending on what music was going through there. In either case, that volume level was well below a comfortably involving but not deafening loud 75dB average, where I usually listen when I’m jamming out.

Really? A HiFiGuides account, DT880, and a Zen CAN? Sounds pretty audiophile to me.

Out of curiosity, do you have any experience with other amps? If so, which ones?

18

Ha, the HifiGuides accounts is BECAUSE I have no idea what I’m doing :slight_smile:
That’s also how I ended up with my setup. I was simply a bit more open than most I guess.
Between all this homeworking and springing for a new gaming rig I was…am in an experimental mood.
I’m pretty much getting everything I have been thinking about for the last decade or so.

Rambling ahead, you have been warned.

Add some disappointment into the mix with past audio setups and I was more than willing to go the extra mile. And while I still would not even consider myself an audio enthusiast, you guys were so helpful I figured I’d stick around a little bit longer. A nice breath of fresh air to see a forum where people aren’t at each others throats

As for other amps, not much really, the zen stack is the first real dedicated setup I have.
Before that I had creative sound cards and lately the E5 but, while I always thought they were better than mainboard sound, I was never quite happy. Same for the headphones. Had DT880 pro or DT990 pro before, some sennheiser headset and recently BOSE Quiet comfort 35 along with various gaming headsets aver the years as well as some JVC HA-SZ2000.

Since I was upgrading all my main gear I figured I might as well throw audio into the mix and then saw the DT880 600 ohm Zeos review. Of the headphoens I had, the Beyers were up there with the bose and you guys convinced me I could fix everything that I didn’t like about the Beyers I had.

One reason I have been dissapointed is that aeons ago I had a 5.1 speaker set up and I really enjoyed that. And I have been chasing a similar experience with headphones but I never really got there. I’m still not there but I feel I’m about as close as I can reasonably get before it makes more sense to switch to speakers. Still plan on getting a real speaker surround setup again…eventually…some day. NO idea what I had back then, some sort of combo dac/amp giant box thing to play DTS surround.

Keep in mind this all over like 20 years now. And I have never really listened to music. I am now with the latest setup but even then it’s more because I get hung up on the experience and just enjoy it and less that I seek out to listen to music.

In those 20ish years, the lesson I am learning is that, if you want an “experience”, you better be willing to bite the bullet and pay, and a forum like this just happens to have way more experience than me. The audio world is mighty confusing for the uninitiated lol

…
Having typed all that out, I might be an audiophile in denial haha.

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Definitely. Might as well just embrace it. :laughing:

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20

5.1 speakers for gaming is pretty sweet. But it also takes the arrangement work of surround sound and jams into a desktop environment. Most people’s desks don’t have shelves behind their sitting area for the surround channels it seems. I think that, and keeping noise down for others in the house (gaming sound is more annoying than music sound when you’re not involved) is why headphones exploded for gaming. Many audiophile grade headphones can in fact mimic surround sound if they’re given a good signal and the game’s audio engine does positional sound well. DT880 is such a headphone. In fact it’s my goto recommendation for gaming can under $200. If you’re willing to try it the Schiit Modi 3+ & Magni 3+ will get you closer to that sound with DT880. Step up to their Asgard 3 and you’ll be amazed.

LOL. Yep. If you care about sound enough to be able to be disappointed in sound things, you’re an audiophile.

21

Just bought this with the iPower 5V power supply and so far very impressed. I can confirm the XBass function is indeed like butter heroin and the power on offer is crazy.

I’ve also tried some really sensitive IEM’s on this and can’t hear any noise floor so very happy, of course have to reduce input volume into the AMP otherwise the IEM’s would literally explode from the power output ^^.

Also a perfect match for the notoriously power hungry Tin P1.

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22

I don’t think 1 Watt is a perfect match. I have Hiby R5 and it sounds decent, but I have been considering the A50s or something like it to get more from the P1. Although I do envy you that bass boost button :slight_smile:

23

P1’s certainly does benefit from the Xbass, balanced 0db gain it’'s blowing my ears out ^^. I couldn’t handle any more power.

24

I can max out the comfortable listening level of the P1’s on a Fiio M9 (220mW) but they don’t sound as open as the Hiby R5 which is why I suspect a move to a beefier amp would affect the sound not just the loudness. Could be wrong though, it’s just all the reviewers beat that message/drum to death!

26

This made my day ahah I’m a similar user to you Roknar, I’ve got my first more serious setup recently (Hd6xx + L30+E30), but after the L30 fiasco, I returned the stack and got a zen dac + zen can stack, to pair with the HD 6xx. Reading this review doesn’t make me happier about my choice (I understand that this amp could distort the lower end a bit with the 300ohm of the 6xx) but then you say It’s doing ok with your 600ohms dt880, I guess I’ll evaluate the stack as soon as I get it in my hands :smiley:

27

On the pentaconn connection, I’m sitting at gain setting of 3 at around 9 o’clock and 11-12 is where it starts getting painfully loud to me. I hear no distortion. To hear distortion I have to switch to RCA and dial up the bass on the tube preamp, so that is with the variable setting, meaning the DAC is doing some pre-amping as well as the tube preamp, and then I have to go to 12 on the Bass dial for that to happen (usually I have that at the minimum).

At those settings, the headphones are physically rumbling, though understandably the sound is rather dark, but if I want all the bass, there is that option. So yea, I don’t have anything to compare too, and I could see that maybe with more power, I could get the added bass without darkening the sound. But it’s definitely fine without the preamp lol. I see there is more headroom o upgrade in the future, but I don’t regret my purchase at all. Also, truebass is some kind of black magic that adds bass without making things sound dark.

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28

That is very nice to hear. I am now 100% sure this stack will do it for me for a long time :smiley: I love having options and knowing that the truebass is really viable is nice. Also, about the distortion, I doubt I’ll hear any of it, and even than, I’d just adjust my volume and settings accordingly. Thank you for your input :smiley: I strongly appreciate it.

29

I wonder if iFi is gonna come out with a Zen that is only a DAC, to pair with the CAN. it’s seems kinda odd to pair their combo unit with the amp.

30

This is what I’m waiting for. I wish the Zen Blue had USB input, that would be the perfect combo.

31

Ya I’m convinced a version of the signature Drop Dac will be available eventually.

For my system I would love SPDIF in on a standalone Zen Dac. But I’m guessing that might be too much to ask