🔷 Lake People G111

[CT007]

Ok, so the Allo would be competition for Modius, D90, Modi MB. I definitely don’t want to skimp or compromise on SQ, so that’s why I’m trying to hit Bifrost-level as my DAC target. (I’ve heard the older Bifrosts before in a hifi store, and wasn’t wow’ed, but this current 4493/AD5781/Multibit/whatever “Bifrost 3”(or is it still considered a 2?) should be different). I have no idea about harmonics control, so that’s neat.

Yeah, I was thinking G111+BF(main option), or G111+A3+Allo, to see how much I might like that warmer A3. Well, I can always buy A3 later(it’s cheap) to test; right now I want the best sound I can get, to go with my likely upcoming Clairvoyance/everything.

@M0N

So out of what you have, what have you enjoyed so far, and what would you change?

I really like the D50s. It just feels very uncolored and transparent/truthful to me, and the ATOM for the same exact reasons(all it does is add volume; there’s not a single change in sound VS the DAC’s sound, to my ears with any IEM or headphone yet). Now that Mojo is here, I can FINALLY say I actually hear a significant difference VS D50s+ATOM all those other DACs and amps under $400 I’ve tried… Mojo sounds much more natural/realistic, with more depth and resolution to most areas. Probably better imaging & separation, with that depth & resolution. It sounds maybe “organic” and warm, but I can’t say if that sound is colored to any significant, negatively impactful degree. So far, I might say Mojo has less treble extension, otherwise everything is probably better about it. After hearing Mojo, D50s+ATOM sounds rather dry, rough/less smooth, and definitely lacking resolution, otherwise still perfectly uncolored and transparent at the core of its sound.

I am certainly NOT a fan of tube/hybrid amps(up to ~$300 amps, mind you), so it’s been the SS way for me so far. My amp & DAC doesn’t really have any nifty features, but stuff like bass boost and treble softening would be fun bonuses. I think I just want to stay on the warm side of neutral, while sacrificing as little space & detail as possible. I want to trust my IEM/headphone to deliver the bass flavor I want, and trust the DAC/amp to make sure the fidelity for the bass detail, texture & realism are all there. (same for mids & treble) But…extra bass never hurt. Also nicer volume pots, and LED screens are cool. (ATOM has a pre-amp that I can use for my speakers, too, so that would be useful, but not necessary atm)

Going off the best I’ve ever heard, I believe it was a McIntosh tube amp with some SACD player and maybe another hulking box(a streamer?) in the chain, on HE-6/LCD-3. There was a unique, vibrant, liquidy/watery smoothness/quality to everything, that made everything sound so alive and real. That was a $25K system, so I might be able to get close with today’s ultra-advanced, sub-$1K tech. ^ ^

[M0N]

@CT007

Ok, so the Allo would be competition for Modius, D90, Modi MB

Yes, and I’d pretty easily take it over those three lol

@CT007

I definitely don’t want to skimp or compromise on SQ, so that’s why I’m trying to hit Bifrost-level as my DAC target

@CT007

I’ve heard the older Bifrosts before in a hifi store, and wasn’t wow’ed, but this current 4493/AD5781/Multibit/whatever

Neither was I tbh, I haven’t liked older schiit dacs in the past as well, but the bf2 definitely changed that for me

@CT007

Yeah, I was thinking G111+BF(main option), or G111+A3+Allo, to see how much I might like that warmer A3. Well, I can always buy A3 later(it’s cheap) to test; right now I want the best sound I can get, to go with my likely upcoming Clairvoyance/everything.

Gotcha yeah, I mean you could grab an a3 now, and the a g111 down the line, using your mojo as a dac (not ideal but still sounds pretty good) to test, or you could make the jump right away

@CT007

Now that Mojo is here, I can FINALLY say I actually hear a significant difference VS D50s+ATOM all those other DACs and amps under $400 I’ve tried… Mojo sounds much more natural/realistic, with more depth and resolution to most areas. Probably better imaging & separation, with that depth & resolution. It sounds maybe “organic” and warm, but I can’t say if that sound is colored to any significant, negatively impactful degree.

Cool cool. Personally to me the mojo is cleaner leaning although with good density and a bit of added warmth. Reasonably neutral though

@CT007

After hearing Mojo, D50s+ATOM sounds rather dry, rough/less smooth, and definitely lacking resolution, otherwise still perfectly uncolored and transparent at the core of its sound.

Imo if something is more rough, has a more flat stage, or is lacking some resolution, to me that’s coloration and lacking transparency*. Idk, at this point I’ve given up on trying to find something fully uncolored or transparent per SE, as I just haven’t found it to exist, imo the next best option is to try to put together a chain with great synergy that also aligns to ones preferences

*To me coloration is something that deviates from how you would hear something in life, but it could also be deviation from a specific type of neutral target. Transparency is how well something conveys what’s being put into it (like a transparent amp would convey the differences of different dacs a lot and also would be fairly dependant on the dac for it’s performance, where is an amp that is lacking in transparency doesn’t convey dac differences well and doesn’t change much with different dacs)

@CT007

I am certainly NOT a fan of tube/hybrid amps(up to ~$300 amps, mind you), so it’s been the SS way for me so far.

Gotcha, I personally can’t say I’ve enjoyed many in that range as well, I think you need to get more in the 500 buck rant to get to some of the good tube or hybrids imo

@CT007

I think I just want to stay on the warm side of neutral, while sacrificing as little space & detail as possible.

That can be done for sure, your already on a good path with the g111 and bf2 imo

@CT007

I want to trust my IEM/headphone to deliver the bass flavor I want, and trust the DAC/amp to make sure the fidelity for the bass detail, texture & realism are all there. (same for mids & treble) But…extra bass never hurt

Yep yep, if the source chain can’t convey it in the first place, the headphones/iems aren’t going to be able to either lol

@CT007

Going off the best I’ve ever heard, I believe it was a McIntosh tube amp with some SACD player and maybe another hulking box(a streamer?) in the chain, on HE-6/LCD-3. There was a unique, vibrant, liquidy/watery smoothness/quality to everything, that made everything sound so alive and real

Nice

@CT007

That was a $25K system, so I might be able to get close with today’s ultra-advanced, sub-$1K tech. ^ ^

Imo probably not, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get a damn nice setup for 1-2k these days. It’s just that I don’t think things have trickled down that much

[CT007]

@M0N

…using your mojo as a dac

I had no idea! Lol. That would help me figure out whether it’s the DAC or amp section that makes Mojo sound the way it does, if I can separate em! This thing is so weird and funky, I love it. TWO headphone jacks!!! But…WHY LOL. My one actual issue with it, is that I hear hum when I plug most of my IEMs in. I never hear any on my d50s+ATOM, unless the volume is up a lot. Maybe I need a better USB cable for it? I should try it through my phone instead of PC.

@M0N

…or is lacking some resolution, to me that’s coloration

For budget products like D10s, I guess even D50s, Modi MB(yuck), I would assume the missing resolution is due to cheaper chips/hardware being used, so it just can’t make that resolution happen. But otherwise it could be essentially perfect at what it can do lol. Not colored, just…incapable, IMO.

I can always return or Ebay these parts, so there’s certainly no risk in trying G111+BF out. Heck, the G111 and BF2 even seem to be rare collector’s items rarely seen for sale…! Bonus!

Oh, another question - At this point, would you upgrade the DAC or amp next? (assuming you have G111+BF2)

[M0N]

@CT007

I had no idea! Lol

If you check the manual there’s a mode that puts it into pseudo line out, it’s not true line out (as it’s not bypassing the headphone amp stage sort of), but it still sounds great that way

@CT007

That would help me figure out whether it’s the DAC or amp section that makes Mojo sound the way it does, if I can separate em!

Personally I think it’s the dac in the mojo that is the more prominent preformer in this case, it’s just a pretty well done dac for the money

@CT007

TWO headphone jacks!!! But…WHY LOL.

Yeah don’t know what they were doing there lol

@CT007

My one actual issue with it, is that I hear hum when I plug most of my IEMs in. I never hear any on my d50s+ATOM, unless the volume is up a lot. Maybe I need a better USB cable for it? I should try it through my phone instead of PC.

Hum or hiss? Also if you have nothing connected like no USB or spdif cable and running off battery but just the iems, does it still have that issue? Could be a ground loop

@CT007

I would assume the missing resolution is due to cheaper chips/hardware being used, so it just can’t make that resolution happen.

Yeah, can’t expect it to have top tier resolution for that money so it’s not a fault or anything. There’s just better above pretty much

@CT007

I can always return or Ebay these parts, so there’s certainly no risk in trying G111+BF out. Heck, the G111 and BF2 even seem to be rare collector’s items rarely seen for sale…! Bonus!

Yeah there’s been quite a demand for bf2 recently since schiit’s been backed up lately (gross pun?), and the g111 is somewhat seldom found used as well, so I bet you would have no problems selling them if they were priced well enough

@CT007

At this point, would you upgrade the DAC or amp next? (assuming you have G111+BF2)

Amp, I would carry the bf2 forward. BUT there’s a slight dilemma if you end up really liking the g111 and want to move to violectric (higher end brand of lake people so fairly direct upgrade). If you move to the new Vio like the v550 or v340 you are fine. But if you go for an older Vio like a v281/280 the bf2 does not pair well with those, so you would want to change dacs. But yes typically you upgrade the amp first, that would give you more audible benefit (the g111 will still convey some aspects of a nicer dac upgrade but it won’t be as large of a difference as moving to the higher end amp)

Regarding upgrading from this though, you really get into the realm of synergy playing a significant role, so be careful there and make sure to plan accordingly, as when you move up from here the source gear you choose will really start to lock you into specific headphones/iems you should go for, as things get much more picky and less forgiving about poor pairings. But you shouldn’t have to worry about that all that soon unless you make drastic upgrades on the headphone/iem front

[CT007]

@M0N

Hum or hiss? Also if you have nothing connected like no USB or spdif cable and running off battery but just the iems, does it still have that issue? Could be a ground loop

I turned it on, plugged YBF into it, and there’s a fairly nasty electrical noise I’ve never heard before. My guess is because it’s configured in PC USB mode, but the USB cable isn’t plugged in. After I put the USB in, I hear NO change in static/background noise at any volume level(<3), but I do hear the faintest electrical static/noise when plugging in YBF(and it’s always present until unplugged).

With Mojo volume at lowest(for good listening volume still) + PC vol 100%, there is still a detectable bit of noise when plugging in. If I turn Mojo way up, the noise/static increases a lot.

Same level of barely detectable noise with FH3 and VK4. So I must have had the hardware volume up too much before, and/or there is always slight electrical noise with this.

[CT007]

Question - is this amp only 230V? AKA, can it be used in USA? (Oh yes, I see it says “230/115” at the power slot)

[CT007]

<0.15 Ohms output impedance, so should be fine for IEMs. Any more user feedback on G111+IEMs?

But how does the power go from 1750mW @ 100 ohm to 1200mW @ 32 ohm…? Bizarre. 600mW @ 600 ohm. Never seen such similar powers across the board.

[M0N]

@CT007

But how does the power go from 1750mW @ 100 ohm to 1200mW @ 32 ohm…? Bizarre. 600mW @ 600 ohm. Never seen such similar powers across the board.

It’s a more voltage focused amp and is current limited. You commonly see this with some transformer coupled tube amps. Other solid state manufacturers have power curves like this as well. All depends on the design, the amp is more geared for higher impedance, just what they designed it for

For the iem question stuff I’ve thrown on there works well enough, but I haven’t used it enough with iems to say anything detailed

[CT007]

What about adapters for IEMs, to eliminate noise or match impedance better, like iFi IEMatch+ and those impedance cables…? I have no idea if they affect SQ, or amplify/de-amplify the sound, but I’d like to have a product to cut noise(try it on my Mojo).

[M0N]

The iematch works great, has a minute non substantial impact on sound quality for most 1k and below iems from my experience (at least in ultra mode, I thought high didn’t work as well)

Given the nature of it, it will cause you to have to push your amp harder depending on the amp and iem. But if you have hiss or noise floor it’s a great way to take care of that

[Pr3ssAltF4]

@M0N

But if you have hiss or noise floor it’s a great way to take care of that

Did the same thing with my Lake People RS-08. iFi IEmatch works beautifully.

SQ difference is minimal, but it is there in my experience. Still definitely worth imo.

[CT007]

Ok, let’s say I want to go a step or 2 up from G111, with Bifrost, for IEMs+phones. I see the MLP is $499, but no idea how it compares.

Even if Bifrost might be at its limit with a ~G111, a more capable amp could enhance the presentation yet. I would like to try Arya or something like it in the future, but I don’t want a specific-headphone-tailored amp. ThieAudio Oracle is on the way to me now, on the IEM side.

[granularclouds]

Hey there, haven’t read all your back and forth with Mon, but I have a B2 and upgraded to the G111 from the A3. Happy to answer questions.

[Andrew_Davis]

So, spill! How does it sound?

[granularclouds]

You can scroll up for my impressions - I left a number of them here. Happy to answer more specific questions.

[WaveTheory]

Those of you with experience with the G111, let’s see if we can get this amp so more good pub:

Lake People G111 - Headphone Amp

[CT007]

Alright, TY!

1. Do you think G111 is straight up excellent for both IEMs and headphones? (I haven’t ordered it yet, so I’m still open to higher options)

2. Does G111+Bifrost give you everything you want? Would you change anything? Too thin/studio-like sound…? Or do you think going up a step or 2 with the amp would really take it to no-compromises high-end(like I am currently wondering about)?

3. What amps have you been looking at above G111, if any? Or do you feel Bifrost is the weak point?

[granularclouds]

1. It is straight up excellent, and an undeniable/immediately recognizable improvement from the A3. The IEM/headphone thing is slightly tricky - it’s fantastic for IEMs (Thieaudio Monarchs are my main). But the “gain” switch is inside the unit, so if you have an incredible high impedance headphone and an incredibly sensitive IEM in your lineup, be prepared to turn it way up for the headphone, and way down for the IEM. This isn’t too much of a problem for me. For a 6xx for example, I’ll have the volume around ~11 to 1. For my Monarch, between 8 and 10 (usually 9). Haven’t opened the box and touched gain, left at default.

2. Bifrost 2 is unbelievable. There are some who might prefer a more clinical/analytical sound, who might do better with a Topping DAC, but for my purposes, the B2 is perfect. I literally haven’t given a second thought to upgrading. Together, the G111 and B2 are a great pairing. I am not interested in upgrading either right now. My only plans for the future is to buy a Feliks Audio tube amp - either the Echo mk II or the one just a tier above the Echo. But that’s much further down the road, when I get an Aeolus.

3. See above I guess. I’m not interesting in clinical/analytical, THX isn’t for me, and I really like the G111 because it’s neutral without being overly opinionated in its neutrality (i.e. pushing neutrality so far that it becomes noticeable as a distinct signature - again, clinical or analytical). The stage is nice and wide, the euphony from the B2 still gets to shine through, the resolution is an improvement from the A3.

[CT007]

Have you heard anything better yet? It seems entirely logical to stop at G111+BF. Then spend the extra on different phones. I think I will try a Huge 2 after G111+BF2.

What were you using before G111 and BF? I’ve seen quite an improvement going from d50s+ATOM to this silly Mojo.

[CT007]

@M0N

The iematch works great

Yeah, this is pretty fantastic, actually! It COMPLETELY took out the Mojo noise, on high mode, and I noticed it softens/smooths the treble on ultra mode, which is a sweet bonus. One tiny switch to get 2 sounds.