Finally get to properly A/B test my Lawton Chambersā¦
6 Likes
And i have minidsp ears on the way to try measure frequency response differences and other tonal differences!
1 Like
Hereās some measurements for the doubtersā¦
Im new to REW so excuse me if I got this wrongā¦
This is comparing a brand new pair of TH610 out of box with another brand new pair with Wild Chechen measured on minidsp EARS using the HEQ Mic calibration.
This is with a very light clamping of the HP to the EARS with a small elastic to properly seal the headphone at the top of the earcup.
As you can see the sub-bass is significantly better - Wild Chechen chambers are even flat down to 10hz (where I started the measurement from)
The occasional sibilance you could hear in stock TH610 is also drastically reduced as you can see with the dip at 3K compared with stock chambers.
Much more to come. I also have some āreferenceā original HD600ās with new earpads to measure against and several other HPās.
Right Stock TH610 Black Walnut Chamber
RHQ-Stock by Hilton, on Flickr
Right TH610 Wild Chechen Chamber
RHQ-Chechen by Hilton, on Flickr
Right TH610 Wild Chechen vs Stock Walnut Chamber ( Purple Chechen / Orange Stock)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
Black Limba
RHQ-Limba by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba (Purple/Orange/Green)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
Hereās Flame Marble Walnut
RHQ-Marble by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Ziricote
RHQ-Ziricote by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba vs Flame Marble Walnut vs Wild Ziricote (Purple/Orange/Green/Yellow/Red)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba-vs-Marble-vs-Ziricote by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
HD600
RHQ-HD600 by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba vs Flame Marble Walnut vs Wild Ziricote vs HD600 (Purple/Orange/Green/Yellow/Red/Light-Blue)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba-vs-Marble-vs-Ziricote-vs-HD600 by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
Last one for today - with RAW Calibration file loaded in REW.
RAW-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba-vs-Marble-vs-Ziricote-vs-HD600 by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
What is the white curve?
Its the minidsp EARS HEQ calibration target, itās supposedly meant to be somewhat close to the Harman Curve to target for EQ for so called flat. However I have to say headphones would be ear bleeding in my opinion with the curve they set. So just look at 4khz and below. There are weird resonances with the EARS above 4K anyway.
1 Like
What I find interesting, is compared to most of my listening notes from 2 years ago, the graphs corroborate what I thought i was hearingā¦ 
From 2 years ago
"Initial impressions of Wild Chechenā¦
Definitely fatter sub bass at 30-50hz and fuller bass around 80hz.
Still tight and fast sounding, not much difference in midrange and treble detected.
hmmmm. might have fixed the occassional sibilance around 6-8k! More listening requiredā¦"
"The fit and finish is spectacular!
The sound seems tighter but also deeper and fatter and also smoother in the upper midrage and lower treble where the stock TH610ās have a tendancy to be siblant on some brightly recorded tracks.
The sparkle, air, separation, width and staging is there and even sweeter since the edge has been just so slightly taken away at around 5-6k.
Im my opinion this has made the TH610 the perfect headphones with the Wild Chechen. Not sure how Iām going to go with the others since this has spoilt me now I think!
The bass is just sooo good, just sounds like a really good fat dynamic and fast kick that you get in a good live gig in a small/medium room with warm and tight bass from bass guitar.
Listening to everything from Glitterbox EDM night club stuff, to Steely Dan Gaucho, Tracy Chapman Baby Can I Hold You - nice bassā¦ Super Tramp Still in Loveā¦"
āBlack Limba only a subtle difference in sound so far but definitely a little warmer sounding in the 70- 120hz regionā¦ No sign of sibilance.ā
āAnd Hoff Ensemble - Polarityā¦ WOW - feels like im in the room with that beautiful double bass and Piano!ā
and a quote from an email correspondence with Mark Lawtonā¦
"Myself, I feel one can only obtain just so much info from measurements, the real test is listening.
Rather than just making a copy of the original cups, we wanted to make as many improvements as possible to the design.
Cups serve a purpose, acting as a combination of speaker cabinet and body of a musical instrument.
If you treat them seriously this way, you can get a lot more out of the headphone itself.
We are on the second generation of our cups, original versions (2008-2011) were also deeper than stock cups and were an excellent upgrade.
Ultimately, with some very sophisticated new equipment providing almost total control, we were able to do everything we ever wanted in terms of perfecting the shape inside and out, getting wall thicknesses to taper just right, etc.
Development of the current generation was extended, many forms/shapes were tried before we reached the shape you now see.
I may be in minority, but I genuinely prefer closed to open headphones, all other things being equal.
But the catch always is reduction of soundstage size and a bit of a reverberant āsea shellā effect.
Bigger cups with correct internal volume and shape really help push the soundstage out.
We use a small piece of acoustic foam inside the cups which helps prevent some of the internal reflections which also helps the enclosure disappear a bit.
Customers are constantly surprised at what a difference cups can make.
Enjoy!
Mark Lawton"
And some discussion from 2 years agoā¦
"The point of changing the headphone chamber material isnt just about coloration. Itās being used in the right volume, size, shape and density to also increase the sound stage somewhat and bring a bit of a room sound to the headphone. But yes technically youāre right - you donāt want colorationā¦
But lets be frank hereā¦
Normally you listen to music in a room that has itās own soundā¦ that can completely change the sound of a speakerā¦ so too different studios have different sound properties, as do many speaker designs and cabinet construction/material choices.
I have double walled highly cross braced speakers in my main home system (speaker baffel mount bracing within a speaker cabinet) and they are very neutral so I know exactly what you mean. (Speakers are mounted through to an internal mount rather than the front baffel to decouple the driver from the front baffel and absorb and disperse any mechanical vibration into the cabinet instead of off the speaker baffel into the room)"
My thoughts above correlate well with Harman Curveā¦ but to be honest itās not a perfect curve. but you all know that!
Some more thoughts from 2 years agoā¦ still very much the same today.
"Wild Ziricote Type 5 Lawton Cupā¦ VERY different
Much less bass overall and whatās there is super tight and extends low. More forward mid range and top end - much more vocal oriented. No sharpness in treble but definitely brighter but not too bright."
Andā¦
"H610 swapped over to Flame Marble Walnut Lawton Cupsā¦
Ahhh thats better - a bit of warmth has come back as well as punch and depth to the bass. Very nice.
So far favourites are Wild Chechen (Type 4) followed by Black Limba (Type 1). Black Limba was much much warmer and fuller sounding. More listening to be done!"
Since the above statement 2 years ago, I actually changed over to the Black Limba for the majority of the last 2 years, and now I can see what I preferred them. A little more V-shapped but not too much so. A little more relaxed. (certainly not like the ridiculous TH900MKII that made my ears bleed!
And some more thoughtsā¦ still true today 2 years later.
"Wild Chechen Type 4 definitely my favourite overall for refinement and versatility.
Tighter bass that extends low, still has good impact and force and a nice timbre and not boomy.
Sweet top end that shimmers but doesnt bite and still extends nicely.
Mid range is forward and full but not in your face.
Just my perfect kinda headphones!
Was listening back to back with Flame Marbled Walnut / Wild Chechen and the Walnut has a nice warmth but with double bass in Jazz it can be a little fuzzy sounding, while the Wild Chechen just sounds natural and full with great impact and articulation with just the right amount of warmth.
(Diana Krall - Look of Love & also Jeff Hamilton Treo - Live from San Pedro)
The walnut is great with dance and rock and just about everything else but the Wild Chechen has got me."
And this is my discovery 2 years ago that got me hooked on the Black Limba
"Iāve been using the Black Limba all day today and am really enjoying them.
Something Iāve noticed is the treble and upper midrange is slightly more gentle on the Black Limba. The Wild Chechen has a slightly harder edge to it so the Black Limba is very nice and punchy and warm but without the edgyness."
Some more thoughts on Black Limba - still wouldnt change my opinion 2 years later!
"The Bass in God is a Woman (Ariana Grande), Dancing With a Stranger (Sam Smith) and Magic (Kylie Minogue) ā¦areā¦ SUBLIME with the Black Limbaās and the iFi iDSD on normal gain @ 1 oāclock on the volume dial! This is how POP music should sound. MAGIC. :yum Loud in yer face and thumping.
Thatās where type 1 or 2 woods truly rock! Type 4 Wild Chechen canāt compete with the kick, power and warmth of the Type 1 Black Limba where you just wanna feel da bassā¦ and thatās without flicking the xBass or 3D switch on the Amp. Type 4 with the xBass come close to the Type 1 but still lacking a little warmth. They are still great though for rock or more complex music, or Jazz where you need a little more articulation in the bass."
And that brings us back to today.
Just for complete transparency, I calibrated the position of the headphones with 84db at 300hz and then adjusted the position to get equal bass and level between L & R at 70hz, 100hz and 1K. To avoid having to do multiple positions.
I love every one of these Lawton Chambers as much as the day I bought them. Now I can switch between them quickly for different listening moods and styles, with all the things I like about Harman Curve without stuffing around with EQ.
I love the fact my ears werenāt deceiving me and now the measurements prove I have a half decent ear. Im not perfect Im not saying thatā¦ but I know what I like and what sounds good to me!
I hope some of you find this useful.
More headphone to come including some CSD, waterfall and distortion results. Im new to REW but understand the concept having started out in recording studios and doing live band work 25+ years ago. If anyone has some pointers or good threads on this Iām all EARSā¦
cheers
Hil
1 Like
Time for the good stuff. Not sure if Iāve captured this correctly but Iāve given a shot!
TH610 Stock Chamber Waterfall
TH610 Stock Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen Waterfall
RHQ Chechen Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
Black Limba Waterfall
RHQ Limba Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
Flame Marble Walnut Waterfall
RHQ Marble Walnut Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Ziricote Waterfall
RHQ Ziricote Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
HD600 Waterfall
RHQ HD600 Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr
TH610 Stock Chamber RT60 Decay
TH610 Stock RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen RT60 Decay
RHQ Chechen RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
Black Limba RT60 Decay
RHQ Limba RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
Flame Marble Walnut RT60 Decay
RHQ Marble Walnut RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Ziricote RT60 Decay
RHQ Ziricote RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
HD600 RT60 Decay (contaminated by background noise???)
RHQ HD600 RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
TH610 Stock Chamber Noise + THD
TH610 Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen Noise + THD
RHQ Chechen Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
Black Limba Noise + THD
RHQ Limba Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
Flame Marble Walnut Noise + THD
RHQ Marble Walnut Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Ziricote Noise + THD
RHQ Ziricote Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
HD600 Noise + THD
RHQ HD600 Noise by Hilton, on Flickr
TH610 Stock Chamber CSD
TH610 Stock CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Chechen CSD
RHQ Chechen CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
Black Limba CSD
RHQ Limba CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
Flame Marble Walnut CSD
RHQ Marble Walnut CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
Wild Ziricote CSD
RHQ Ziricote CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
HD600 CSD
RHQ HD600 CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
1 Like
Iāve also retested the TH610 stock Chamber again after someone thought 6db gain from Chambers alone seems too good to be trueā¦ but alas a retest clearly shows that the difference is indeed 6db (apart from the Ziricote which is a very dense heavy wood)
TH610 Stock Retest by Hilton, on Flickr
20230714_202801 by Hilton, on Flickr
2 Likes