Lies, damn lies and FR graphs

Yeah it’s just more what suits your workflow

Fundamentally though even if you believe that the goal is to reproduce what was intended during mastering (which I don’t agree with).
The person mastering didn’t have a perfectly flat frequency response, they don’t have neutral ears or a neutral preference, Microphones are imperfect, etc etc.

The goal is to enjoy the recordings.
There always seem to be two schools of thought in Hifi, flat response is the ideal, and I want something I like the sound of.

Valves amps have terrible FR curves if your looking for flat line.
Vynil had all sorts of issues.

I’ve always preferred both to Solid State amps and CD.

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Sometimes you don’t want to reproduce what was heard in the studio lol. If I have a client that wants to prioritize better sounding on airpods or cheaper earbuds of whatever consumer gear like mid-range soundbars or whatnot, they really don’t sound good on good systems but sound better than actually high quality masters (sometimes) (as I was told to so by the client). Like seriously a final master aimed mostly towards consumer gear will sound like ass on a very high end studio setup but sound better on what it was intended to play through

Personally I aim for a good balance, and that balance gets adjusted depending on the clients needs. I do try to optimize some projects for less than idea sound reproduction devices but I also try and reward those with a good setup

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I can see the logic.
I worked in Video games for a lot of years.
Back in the CRT days when doing console titles.
We had precision Sony reference monitors (CRT’s) on our desks, so we knew color was reproduced correctly.
We also had shitty TV’s on out desks so we could ensure the experience on an actual TV was good. And you always prefered the latter over the former.

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Yes, I have popular consumer models of speakers/headphones/earbuds to test on to get a wide range of what something sounds like. Generally consumer consumption is mainly on headphones and earbuds, so I have plenty of things to test with. I do have a few budget to mid-range soundbars and speakers as well

Yeah, I know this is an audiophile forum so it’s definitely not frowned upon to have 10, 20, 50 pairs of headphones for different “flavors” of music. To each their own, but that’s not what I want. Flat and neutral is the way to go if you want to have a somewhat accurate representation of what the artists actually sounded like in the studio or live. I say somewhat accurate, because, yes, there are “a dozen of reference FR curves” and we all got different ears… and different equipment… and studio owners test with low quality equipment too.

Still, Zeos, in the recent Neumann speakers video, said they were “perfect”, “flat and neutral”, so “dull and boring”… uh…? I mean, I get it, but, saying it like that is basically disrespectful to every musician and studio owner on earth, lol. “You’re all so dull and boring we need headphones with treble/mid/bass boost to enjoy your art!” :stuck_out_tongue:

I shop for my headphones and speakers looking at FR graphs. If there’s more than +5dB or -5dB somewhere in the FR graph, they’re eliminated. So I’m interested by, like, 10 headphones, max.

Obviously, there are exceptions. A somewhat accurate representation of the sound, and the soundstage, and the depth, and all the details, is the endgame for me. If it means a +5dB peak somewhere, so be it.

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Also agree too, it’s kinda a lost cause to chase a real to life experience, so just go with what gives you the most enjoyment. It really doesn’t matter if it’s not as accurate to other systems as long as you don’t really mind yourself.

So spatial accuracy is your goal. I will admit headphones that can pull it off correctly can be a real joy to listen to

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I’m also interested by Adam T5Vs. Good monitors, but with decent depth and soundstage, apparently.

Wouldn’t that come down to the what is neutral argument altogether? Also I think something can be neutral and enjoyable, but the point of monitors like those are more to easily find flaws and correct errors and make adjustments, not really enjoy music

Oh, maybe he meant these were perfect for their job, which is, excessive detail, showing everything bad about every recording. I would not want that for my endgame either. I want natural detail, not hyper, boosted detail.

I wouldn’t say it’s hyper boosted detail, but I would just say it has an unnatural presentation more fit for a specific job

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Gotcha. Sterile, analytical, in-your-face everything is pretty much the definition of dull and boring… and sometimes, it’s also the definition of monitoring stuff. But when you choose neutral-ish headphones or speakers for enjoyment, IMHO, everything sounds good, and IMHO, it’s better than needing 5 pairs of speakers or headphones to “make 5 different artists sound great”, lol

The final speakers I decided to go with have all the revealing properties of a studio monitor with most aspects of a reference speaker, so it can be double duty for me. They do make unpleasantly mastered music sound very unpleasant, but in my signal chain I could make them sound more pleasing if I would like

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Also I should say that most mastering studios actually tend to use high end hifi speakers and go from there instead of studio monitors, because you don’t need to find the flaws anymore for mastering because you should have already removed them. You want to recreate a natural sound for mastering

I… didn’t even knew that. :no_mouth:

Here’s something to try if your extremely bored.
Figure out who produced some of the albums by various artists you listen to.
Then see if you can tell the difference in their styles.
You’ll be surprised how much impact the production process has on material, and it will be very clear that they aren’t going for a neutral sound signiture.

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Yes, their goal is to make it sound how the client want to convey, not always go for the utmost realism or something like that

I remember reading that focal utopia speakers are used for that a lot

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Yeah, most high end speakers can be used for mastering. Like go to rmaf and you may find those same speakers there used for mastering

Currently the kii audio speakers are getting popular for mastering because of their size and dsp capabilities