Looking for a budget desktop setup to run 300ohm headphones

That’s all good and well, just seems like you’ve had opportunity to try a lot of higher end gear, but almost every time I see you post, it’s to push the Darkvoice for everything from Elex to Koss to Verite. I also don’t agree that the DT880 600ohm require anything close to an old speaker amp to power, but they do sound quite nice on a good tube amp.

I’m not sure if that’s true, DT880 600Ohm despite its high impedance is fairly efficient. You definitely don’t need a speaker amp (which is for low sensitivity planars), and it can get loud enough (quality is a different matter) on any 99USD and upwards amp, whether class A, op-amp based or THX or tubes. It does sound better on an OTL though and I actually think people recommend OTLs all the time (Little Dot, DV for budgetary, BHC, Echo if higher), perhaps just not when someone has specified a 250USD budget for both a DAC and an amp or uses low impedance headphones (because an impedance mismatch is most likely gonna give you a bloated bass, but which, of course, may subjectively sound pretty good to your ears)

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I do have access to high end gear and the crushing reality when you get a high end OTL then hear the swapped tube DV and it’s about 10% worse is an ouch moment. As you add more gain stages and more tubes you start decreasing quality / clarity of the sound

If you replace the caps on the DV it’s pretty nutts.

Elex does great on the Darkvoice, as does the KPH30i though does sound better on a transformer based tube still sounds good though.

Glad you’ve had such a positive experience. I do think it may just be a unique alignment with your preferences, though. Most references I’ve seen to things like the Elex on OTL has not been positive, which aligns with my experience of bloated and sloppy bass on really anything with higher output impedance. I won’t derail the thread any further…carry on, and enjoy what makes you happy :headphones::notes:

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all this bickering scared poor @pumple away. lol

There’s not just one way to skin the entry budget audio cat, make recommendations and move on or respond to the feedback the OP gives, if and when they do. Not that complicated.

really the DV doesn’t make sense in todays market anyways, it pretty much requires you to do mods and replace the stock tubes for it to even sound decent, and by the time you do those things and spend the money on it you really should have just bought a Bottlehead Crack instead because it will still sound better for around the same cost. The DV made sense 14 years ago but today? not so much imo

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I see you bemoan people not jumping into OTL immediately.
I appreciate your advocacy and you’re not wrong as it comes to synergy.
Let me ask this though, imagine yourself as a greener you— or your less sophisticated cousin, if you prefer.

Would you recommend for their first dac/amp equipment, and ONLY, to be an OTL. Say in this scenario when someone is coming in fresh, with a budget of $250. On an amp that we all acknowledge needs tube rolling.

There seems to be an assumption that even a potential customer that is enthusiastic enough to post on an audio forum, WANTS to roll tubes. That they want the “plan ahead” nature of warming the tubes. The potential headache of using it in a space-confined desktop environment. Replacing worn tubes. Just, everything that comes with it. Being really incompatible with a great number of headphones that might be OP’s “next step”. I say all this as a tube enthusiast and DV owner, also.

Not going to cross the concept of the DT880 requiring a Crown XLS2000 for power.

OP, mentioning which headphones you have might get better recommendations regarding synergy (beyond simple impedance). I think many are running with the assumption that these are Sennheiser HD6__ as it is such a popular 300 ohm model.

The common recommendation about budget stacks is for a reason. Despite seeing the recs “a lot” on this obscure fringe forum, these are still very niche devices. I would recommend a separate entry dac/amp stack that has preouts. Tough to argue with Modi3+/Magni3+, tons of power for cheap. Can chain an OTL tube out from the Magni3+ in future which can function as your preamp.

I would always encourage spending more money, but I know that is not always possible.

True about being perfectly beginner friendly.

I only recommend it for synergy purposes.

It doesn’t take long to figure out tubes a 8 min video from tube lab [valves and more] and pretty much know everything needed to pick a great synergy for what headphones you’ll be pairing them with.

For reference any svetlana or reflector tube is always an excellent start as they’re cheap and very neutral sounding so it’s easy to recommend.

I keep seeing people begrudging tube rolling. All it is really get the micro fibre and grab the base of the tube and wiggle it out. Then wiggle one back in. Once you know the tubes you want it really is that easy.

Just note once you’ve turned it on if you plan on using it again later don’t turn it off until the last time you’re going to use it in a day.