Need an upgrade from my Audio Technica ATH-M50x

Headphones Headphone Discussion / Help
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Here we go, found a quote from here…

Cymbal clash and drumstick hit come across as clear and concise in the treble range. Much appreciated again and one in which I can enjoy the sound. I did find myself turning the volume down though on the Los Lobos album a bit over other headphones. This is not a knock on the headphone, just a paucity of my ear-connection to the headphone. At lower volumes, I can listen for hours without fatigue. Many planar’s have trouble with the higher end, and the PM-50 isn’t free of that, no. They just control the upper end pretty darn well. Treble is my well-known Achilles, and this isn’t off from that. Up to about 4kHz they are a bit too biting for me, but thankfully roll off from there. I do have to turn the volume down on some albums or songs as a result. A shame really for some of those are amongst my favorites. Consider that to be a shortcoming of my ears, not the PM-50 by any means.

I would suggest you eq that if you’re super treble sensitive. Or head towards amps that minimize that problem. My Geshelli equipment does a great job. Liquid Platinum is a bit harsher in the treble right now, but much sweeter everywhere else. <---- sundara needs no eq imo, is a nice happy flat line mostly

Here’s a quick comparison. I plugged in my 990s and PM-50s in for Highway to Hell (on the Highway to Hell album) from ACDC and cranked the volume a bit. My ears forced me to turn it down with the 990s. The upper edge of the vocals was what I’d describe as biting. The PM-50s on the other hand handled them much better. There’s still a noticeable spike if you’re looking for it, but it doesn’t pull you out of the music immediately like the 990s do. <------ also did this with sundaras. Same deal, except since the sundaras are more laid back it was even easier, but slightly less engaging than the 50s.

Hope that helps!

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thanks @Pr3ssAltF4 this definitely helps. And i’m guessing you have the 600 ohm 990’s

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250 Ohms, so they haven’t even attained the true Beyer murder-treble yet lol.

Sundaras are mid way between the two, but the airiness seems to help you not deal with some of the treble shenanigans? Of all my cans, the PM-50s handle the treble the best imo.

Also, that’s the only real hump anywhere. So, if you can deal with that, there aren’t many more obvious flaws. <— mostly applies to both headphones. Sundaras have a nice flat response

Ahhh, I’m doing multiple things and confused headphones. PM-50s are a better version of Sundaras. Sundaras are all of the things above except slightly less awesome, which means they’re still awesome :stuck_out_tongue: . The Sundaras are beautiful for classical and orchestral, and definitely take the cake there.

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I definitely would have thought trebble could be helped by the airiness. haha i just ended up guessing that the pm-50s were similar to the sundaras and you were using them as an example of what sound to expect. In a way, glad to have a list to mention to the supplier but also spoilt for choice. Availability will narrow it all down though

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Yea, sorry, I need to stop reading and writing for today lol. Am getting confused cause too many conversations.

I would highly recommend both cans. I would steer clear of Beyers if you’re treble sensitive. That has been my impression with the ones I own.

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haha no worries man, yeah right now i’ve put hd 650’s, nighthawk’s, sundaras, r70x and the 880/990’s just for final selection decision

but between the nighthawks, 650’s, sundara or r70x, not sure what to choose. would be awesome to test all these but not so easy these days and just South Africa isn’t abundant in audio stores

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You wanna be carefull with the Nighthawks. They’re more of a niche headphone. very dark sounding.

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That’s a nice list, and if the 880/990 600 ohm is still a consideration, they should be enough lower price that you could also get something like the Liquid Spark or Magni 3+ (around $100) to drive them. These amps have a warmer signature that in combination with the higher impedance should bring the highs down within sensitivity limits for most.

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That’s a good consideration, I’d definitely do the combo situation with the amp if I’m going to get the beyerdynamics to make sure I get as close to that sound that I want. The others on the list are also good but would forgo a new amp. With the beyerdynamics it also allows me to upgrade over time with the amps already present, while the other headphones I’d be sticking with them and getting amps over time.

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What would dark mean? More towards the bassy side and less treble?

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This is all according to my ears, so I dunno how much help would be, I truly believe only way to know is to hear for yourself. Putting sound into words is so difficult and meaning changes from user to user and so much exaggeration and bullshit in audio reviews. Probably should try to find a way to either demo these headphones or find a seller who has good return policy.

650 has a nice roll off the treble for long term listening. That’s what they were meant for, long term critical listening that would be non-fatiguing. They were Sennheisers attempt to prove that headphones can bring similar enjoyment to music as high end speakers, that’s my belief at least.

Anyway, if you want long term comfort easy listening with non-fatiguing highs and more emphasis in the bass than most open-air, particularly in the upper-mid bass area, this would be it.

K712 has greater bass extension into sub-bass than 650, but it’ss treble is very fatiguing. It’s great for the first 30-60 minutes, but after it’s bit much. And the soundstage is bit artificial to me. Lovely sound for those who love that though.

Overall R70x is far superior to the HD650. It’s clear, no veil. Better bass extension. It’s more blaanced throughout as well. Far more comfortable, my ears rest against the drivers of the HD650/HD58x, the pads are better on the R70x. R70x weight next to nothing and clamp is better as well. I personally find no weaknesses with the R70x, it’s my ideal headphone.

I personally prefer the HD58x to the HD650, have not heard the HD600 so you can give that a try. Probably can get a HD58x used for $100, incredible sound for $150 new.

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yeah that’s such a hard thing to get past with this stuff because people can say this headphone is bright or this one is dark etc. but it’s hard when you don’t know what’s their reference point. A person hypothetically coming off of the best headphones ever would think any other headphone is too sharp, dark or veiled no matter how good they are. That’s why i wonder or worry whether some who say certain headphones, like, the sennheisers are veiled but for a person coming from airpods or so would think they’re amazingly clear and so it’s kind of an exaggeration or just a relativity issue.

I quite like the sound of that, i’m not necessarily looking for an analytical experience that could take away for just enjoying the music but then again i understand as you say everyone is a bit different and an analytical pair of headphones can definitely be enjoyable.

Since checking out the r70x it has become the top contender for me with the 650’s and also was wondering about the 600 and 660’s.

What do you like of the 58x over the 650’s?

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yeah i have a friend who tried my senheisers and she said they were super clear lol

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TLDR : Pick a pair of cans that have a sound signature you would like to try and don’t worry about finding the perfect one right now. Averaging all the opinions you get so you try to get rid of those “people with >$1000 headphones” outliers is essential :stuck_out_tongue:.

I experimented around with a few cans before I went in on my Sundaras. Was worth the experience and the knowledge I gained about my own tastes. If you’re looking for a head-banging super-energetic experience I agree (and mildly emphasize) that staying away from Sundaras (at least for a bit) is a good idea.

Another suggestion is stretching the budget a tiny bit and going with trying both the 58X (which I still need to listen to) and 4XX and seeing what you like about both. Having more headphones to compare and find out what you really like (and really hate) is helpful. You might even find yourself liking something you thought you’d hate :stuck_out_tongue:

Progression on my went like MDR7506->DT770->DT990->HE-4XX->Sundara->PM-50 (and still continuing for the forseeable future).

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That’s the plan I’ve set out to go with now, I figure I don’t want to just jump onto the sundara’s. That would be like skipping a whole lot of levels. It’s exciting to think of trying out different sound signatures over time and think I’m somewhat interested in trying out the sennheiser signature for a start. Beyerdynamic will be nice to try out because imaging is great on them apparently and so could just change the experience drastically.

I would love to try the 58x or 4xx but massdrop doesn’t deliver where I am. I could find a workaround, but with the current world situation it makes international trade kinda difficult (I ordered thieaudio legacy 3’s about 10 days ago through DHL express shipping and from other people’s experiences its going to still be some time before they get here).

I’m excited to maybe try a dac/amp combo like the schiit modi and magni’s or see what tubes are like but that will be later on

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Ahhhh ok. RIP Massdrop option.

Yea, I still need a pair of sennheiser cans so I can compare. However, everything I heard about their signature compared to Hifiman and planars and beyers really put me off.

Would recommend skipping 770s (if you are even considering them). I really do like the 990s much more, and everyone seems to love the 880s. I do like my Beyers, I just have to be mindful of what I’m listening to at what volume. The 770s isolation is pretty terrible, which is a lot of the point of the closed can (and the bass improvement is minimal at best).

I loved my Magni till I killed it with static, but if you aren’t an idiot like me you should be fine :slight_smile:. Would recommend Geshelli Labs equipment.

You could go with HD599s and a DT880 for <$400 depending on where you are (approximately the cost of the 650 :stuck_out_tongue:)

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770’s are definitely not on the list but both the 880’s and 990’s are still. I’m hoping on the 600ohm variants to help with treble sharpness which apparently they do better with regards to that. 990’s are more fun and the 880’s closer to flat, though I could possibly test those out in person because they’re more available here.

Long periods of listening time will play a part in my choice and so comfort also comes into play. Both the beyers and sennheiser designs seem to be good on that front (after clamp force is reduced on the sennheisers).

Lol and save any disappointment by increasing sound variation with two headphones. Might just work.

Tomorrow I’m contacting the store again to see whether I can get anything on the list of headphones I’ve amassed from all you guys.

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43

Sounds like you’re in a similar place to me

I was finding the M50 to give me slight headache quite quickly with certain music and unsure if it was the bass or treble doing it. I use it on laptop ,iMac or iPhone ( though also use dragonfly cobalt with iPhone which makes an HUGE difference).

Here’s what I tried: Sennheier 660, 70x, Sundara ,Aria stealth, and a couple of others.

The 70x was no where near as good as the Sundara, and the Sundara was better than the 660. The soundstage of almost anything is better than the M50 but none of those had decent bass never mind as near as good as M50

The Aria: sure out of budget but got to be tried. The soundstage is crazy good. The bass better than the others but still way short of the M50.

Apart from the soundstage, the Aria wasn’t THAT much better than the Sundara except perhaps for the bass, where the Aria made up for the almost complete lack of it on the Sundara ( Sundara was still better than the 70x, 660 though)

The M50 can be a bit viscious but boy does it have good bass making the Aria sound very digital esp. with drums etc, tinny almost ( but that’s most likely due to not putting a proper HiFi Amp with it) But the clarity of the Aria and soundstage is phenomenal

I came away from my trials deciding to put up with the foibles of the M50 a bit longer until I could afford the Aria and a proper Amp. to pair it with. And new cables as the ones it comes with are noisy as hell if the scrape on anything.

I realised during the testing which took me ages, that although the M50 has some annoying traits, it is hard to beat in other areas. In fact it was s relief to get back to the M50 lack of soundstage from the Arias which are almost too much as I found my eyes following the sounds about all over the place. That huge soundstage is initially incredible but gets wearing after a bit.

Had I not got fed up with testing my next thing would have been to see if there’s a closed back Sundara ( I think there is) with as good a sound as the open back but with better bass.

The Sundara came out highest in my overall estimation especially for value for money. It’s noticeably better than the 70x, 660, and M50 in every aspect except neither it nor or the 70x of 660 have any bass to talk about. I really don’t like excess of overly dominant bass but I do like it to be clear and present.

I did try classical, techno, trance and electronica in my tests but mostly I listen to jazz/reggae fusion, dub, jazz, ska etc

If I HAD TO chance my headphones now I’d get the Sundara. As I can wait, I have realised that it’s probably more important to get a high quality amp first, before doing more headphone testing as that’s a limiting factor on the performance of the more expensive headphones

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Very interesting to here your response, I’ve also gone through to the hd 660s and I enjoyed them a lot but definitely missed the bass of the m50x’s and also found myself getting distracted by the soundstage of the sennheiser’s (even though it’s not known for a big soundstage it’s bigger than m50x).

What’s also on my radar is the AKG closed backs which are pretty good apparently.

For a while though I have been without headphones and rather just been into IEM’s, there’s some really awesome IEM’s going around that perform amazingly for the price.

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The 600ohm DT 880 is a great choice, known for its detailed, analytical sound, and can handle a variety of genres. However, if you’re looking for a more ‘fun’, dynamic sound, consider the Sennheiser HD 660 S, albeit slightly over your budget. For a balanced option within your budget, the HIFIMAN Sundara is a solid pick with its wide soundstage and engaging presentation. Remember, high impedance headphones like DT 880 and HD 660 S will need a good amplifier. Try to audition these options if possible, as personal preferences can vary.