The driver is planar magnetic, so 50 ohms is quite a high for that driver type.
Also, it has a sensitivity of 92 dBm which means it is inefficient and will require a lot of power.
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impedance numbers mean almost nothing and is a brand to brand basis. for example my 55 ohm k240’s are harder to drive than my 150 ohm 58x’s
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Crap, now i’m lost again. How can i figure out if the headphones i’m looking at will be easy or hard to drive before buying them? And also once i figure out which set i’m going to buy, i would need to identify an amp that would be strong enough to drive those headphones. How can i tell which amp will be sufficient?
Also, could anyone explain the difference between balanced or unbalanced? and which is better?
Balanced means there is a left and right signal input. To get the most out of balanced headphones, you will need a balanced amp and balanced dac. Balanced can be used with single ended sources.
Balanced because it uses a discrete left and right dac and amp as a signal chain from a source usually allows for higher power output (2 amps, one per side versus one amp for both).
But, this should not affect sound quality unless the drivers are underpowered. In some designs of balanced amps, there may be differences that might make one sound better than another, but largely the differences are negligible.
Most headphones, DACs, and amps are single ended. If you are just starting audio as a hobby, then I suggest not being concerned with balanced and think of it more as a preference.
TL;DR: if something is 32 ohms or lower with 100 dBm, then consider it easy to drive and good for mobile use; else, an amp will probably be need in the signal chain.
Traditionally impedance of 32 ohms (for a dynamic driver) or greater have been considered harder to drive. This is half of the story. The other half is sensitivity measured in dB per milliwatt (or dBm). This is read as the sound pressure level of a driver with a 1mW source typically at 1khz or 500 hz tone. If a driver is said to be efficient, then 1mW will be able to generate over 100 dB; else, then it is said to be inefficient. This is important because as you double the input amount you essentially add 3 dB of volume to the driver’s output. Ohms matter as they are a load to the electrical signal attempting to power the drivers and it will take more power to achieve the same output In dB. This is called load loss. At 600 ohms, the output drops by nearly 9 dB with a best case scenario of a matching impedance source (e.g. you could lose more volume). If you do not have the power to make up for this loss, then it sounds much quieter. So consider both the ohm rating and sensitivity to figure out if something is hard to drive and will need an amp.
This is without a doubt the best I have for a gaming experience… its decent for music… however you really cant have all in one… it just doesn’t ever work out that way.
Pro’s and con’s are always the reality… the audio technica ws1100is’s are without a doubt my best imaging headphones for gaming… give a rather rich atmospheric experience, they also come with a mic built into the cable… or one of the cables.
I too have been struggling with these questions for the past year and am only now beginning to set some sort of handle on it, thanks to the guys on this forum. JVerbit has already responded to your question, but since I was working on a response too I may as well post it.
In theory it should all be nice and tidy. You can plug the impedance and sensitivity numbers you get from the headphone manufacturer’s web site into a formula or spreadsheet. This will give you a loudness number as a result. But there are two problems. One is that these numbers aren’t always comparable from one manufacturer to the next. The other is that you need to know some output power numbers from the amp you’ll be using. Otherwise, the headphone numbers are meaningless.
If the amp is built into a smartphone or computer, those numbers can be hard to find. In that case your best bet is to look for headphones for which both the manufacturer’s web site and reviewers are explicitly stating that they’re easy to drive from a smartphone. If you don’t see that claim, assume you’ll need a separate amp.
To be continued…
How powerful an amp is indeed another question. First a bit of audio-visual background to sweeten the slog ahead:
But relatively few headphones are low impedance and high sensitivity, so let’s say you’re looking into buying the JDS Labs Atom, which has been getting lots of positive attention on this forum. You go to the web site here:
Click on the specs tab, then zero in on:
Very first thing to look at is the output impedance. Headphones are allowed to have “big” impedance numbers like 32 or 300 Ohms (Ω). But in most cases the smaller the amp’s number, the better. (Anything over 2 Ω is apparently concerning.) In this case it’s a beautiful 0.1 Ω. Now look at the other output numbers:
- Max Output @ 600Ω = 125mW (8.68 VRMS)
- Max Output @ 150Ω = 502 mW (8.66 VRMS)
- Max Output @ 32Ω 1 = Watt (5.66 VRMS)
Next, you need the input power numbers from any headphone you’re considering. Let’s use the DT 770 Pro 80 Ω as an example. It’s numbers are 80 Ω impedance and 96 dB per mW. (As JVerbit has explained that 96 dB/mW number is a red flag for smartphone/computer use.)
(Electricity putting you off? It’s 'way over my head, but I cling to this analogy: Watts are like the quantity of water flowing through a hose. Volts are like the water pressure forcing it to move. Impedance is anything that restricts the water from moving, such as friction or a constriction.)
Now you have what you need to do some figuring. Go to this page:
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
Near the bottom is a spreadsheet. Plug in the 96 mW number into the upper left green box (efficiency). Plug in the 80 Ω number into the green box just under it (impedance). Finally, plug in 115 in the green Desired loudness box. then click in an empty cell to re-calculate. The resulting Required power and Required voltage numbers are what you want to see:
The Atom’s specs show 502 mW and 8.66 volts available at 150 Ω, so even more than that will be available at 80 Ω. Since 79.43 Ω is far less than 502 and since 2.52 V is far less than 8.66, you’re laughing. Even if they were much closer, you deliberately chose the ear-splitting max loudness requirement of 115 SPL (sound pressure level).
(In my previous response I said that headphone power numbers are iffy due to inconsistencies between manufacturers. But hopefully using the overkill 115 SPL eliminates any concern along those lines.)
Finally, notice the nearly duplicate set of spreadsheet cells below the ones you were using. Some headphone manufacturers provide sensitivity in terms of voltage rather than wattage. For example, Sennheiser is one such company. The closed back HD 569 has an impedance of 32 Ω but the sensitivity is 115 db of SPL at 1 V:
By coincidence the HD 569’s SPL is already the 115 you’re checking for. But the 31 mW result gives you the other number you need to determine if the Atom can do the job. And of course it can.
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The ratio of headphone impedance over amp impedance should be 8 or higher, if you go lower the sound degrades. That is why designing an amp to drive low impedance headphones with clean sound is actually harder than high impedance ones.
I believe that is also why most manufactures make higher impedance headphones.
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For $400, how are we not talking about Audeze Mobius? LDAC Bluetooth connectivity, virtual surround and head tracking, and EQ profiles that range from skull rattling bass to crystal clear detail.
I was reading through Zeos guide posted above and these were not on there, that’s why we are not talking about them. Also, I have read through the specs and they seem nice on paper, but then I read the Amazon reviews and they are a bit worrisome. I have steered clear of “gaming” headsets and Bluetooth headsets because they focus less on sound quality and build quality. I could have bought the Sennheiser GSP 670 Bluetooth Wireless set and call it a day. But what i’m truly going for is an audiophile grade headphones to be used on the go, and once I come home i would plug them into my Dac/Amp and also use them for gaming.
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Thanks a lot for the explanation. This will help figuring things out.
Thanks for the suggestion. These were not on Zeos guide. I think i like these as well. Easy to drive, good base, good imaging. I would probably not use the wired mic and put on a AntLion ModMic Wireless on it instead. But this set has definatly just entered my top picks
Fair enough. I like mine a lot, though not enough to pick them over my set of Anandas. Better than the rest of my stuff though!
In general, closed-back and quality sound don’t get along due to excessive resonances. Tyll Herstens maintained just a few years back that the best strategy was to buy the lowly Audio Technica M50x as one’s closed-back option and spend $$ on open-back. His position is that the M50x was 95% as good as the best closed-backs available at that time. Relatively few agree with that assessment, but tuning preferences are always a crap shoot until you learn what yours looks like on a frequency response graph.
Guess that’s why the Neumann NDH20s are such a big deal now. Zeos-certified ;) quality closed-back sound under Elegia+ prices. (Btw: just noticed a used pair showing on Amazon.com at $400.)
EDIT 1: I didn’t realize how long this post was until I actually posted it soooooooo grab a water and grab a snack.
EDIT 2: Broke up the sections for quicker identification
Owner of quite a few amps/dacs and headphones. I’ll try and give you a few options to stick with your budget.
I’m going to first go over the GSX1000 you’re mentioning.
The GSX1000 Binaural 3D surround is friggin amazing. Dolby Atmos for headphones is good for gaming, but Senns Binaural is better (provided you use the normal preset and don’t mess with any of the other bullcrickey settings they have). I honestly struggle to play games in the standard stereo mode now. Music isn’t going to sound the greatest on this thing when you first plug it in. That being said you can turn up the bit-rate to 24bit 96khz in windows to activate the ‘HD’ mode on the GSX1000 which brings a large improvement to the stereo audio but disables all the features on the GSX1000. I highly recommend doing this if you’re going to listen to music, otherwise, everything will sound like the wind passing by the anus of your grandmother. Ok I may be over reacting here, It’s not that bad, I only noticed the downgrade in sound quality because I have better setups at hand. Realistically most people won’t even realize that out of the box it’s only 16 bit 44.1khz if they’ve only ever been using their MoBo sound output and never adjusted the bit rate. The highest bit rate setting for 7.1 is 16bit 48khz, in case you were wondering.
Once you get used to switching back and forth between HD and 7.1 it’s not that big of a deal. Every time you go to play video games, however, you’ll need to turn down the bit-rate to 16bit 48khz and activate Windows Sonic for the GSX1000 Binaural to work correctly as it has to be fed 7.1 surround otherwise you’ll notice some sounds moving around on you while you’re in a game. Took me a while to figure out why the sound was moving on me in games and almost returned the GSX because I was so disappointed with it, but once I activated Windows Sonic it no longer traveled on me.
You could always do like me and use the GSX1000 for gaming and then have a separate Dac/Amp setup for music. Then all you’d have to do is swap between the Devices in Windows and plug your headphones into the other device. Or do like me and have one headphone for gaming and the other 39 for music 
As for what DAC or Amp you should use, realistically you can get away with your MoBo on board DAC as the AMP is going to matter the most here. At which point I’d say go with the JDS Labs Atom Amp (I don’t own one but reviewers love it). I always suggest cranking up Windows volume to the max and listening to your headphones. If you have a decent MoBo you shouldn’t hear anything, but if you’re picking up a humm/hiss or any floor noise then I’d get an external DAC or an all in one solution. Here is a list of the DAC/Amps I own in order of price while keeping in mind that your total budget is $1k (USD?) for DAC/AMP/Headphones. The price seems to be fairly in line with quality, the more you spend the better things are going to sound seems to hold true here.
***DAC/Amp combos:
SMSL M3
Micca OriGen G2 - perfect if you also have passive speakers at your desk. I also love this form factor, I keep this at my work comp.
AudioQuest DragonFly Red - This thing is a beast and will power most headphones…including my Verums which the GSX1000 refuses to work with…I should see what other headphones the GSX refuses to power. Also this can be used with your phone and a dongle, but you’re going to need to update the firmware first, or you’ll struggle with volume control as everything is going to sound super quite.
Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC - Got this as a Birthday present 6 months ago and I’d say this is the best all in one solution. Mind you I only have 9 DAC/Amps to compare with, so I’m saying it’s the best all in one solution that I have personally seen.
***DAC with seperate Amp
Solo Dac and Amp solution this is going to cost you a lot and I read/watched tons of reviews and settled on the EL Stack.
JDS Labs EL Dac
JDS Labs EL Amp
Never owned the NFB11 or the Jotenheim but when I was researching for top of the line setups last year (789 didn’t exist yet) I had narrowed it down to the EL Stack, NFB11, or the Jotenheim. Jotenheim gets hotter than my balls on a leather couch in the middle of summer, the NFB11 has a shady as hell ordering process, and the EL Stack costs buku bucks more. Made my choice after watching DMS’ review where he picked the EL Stack over the NFB11.
I’m not going to recommend the 789 because trying to get your hands on a 789 is going to be hard or will cost you double. You could go with the Aune X7 Amp with the EL Dac but I think the EL Stack looks better.
You could do the JDS Labs OL DAC and the Atom for a third of the cost of the EL stack. Keep in mind the Atom uses a plastic housing whereas the OL uses metal so if you’re OCD it might drive you bonkers.
***Closed Back Headphones in order of price which again holds true to sound quality:
Monoprice Retro
Creative Aurvana Live
ATH-M40X - Dekoni Sheepskin Pads (amazing)
ATH-M50X - If highs bother you, this will murder you. Basically, if the high pitch of a CRT monitor drives you crazy, avoid these. Mind you they don’t create that pitch, but that’s the example I use when figuring out if people are bugged by sibilance. (note: never tried pad swapping on these when I had them)
1More H1707 - if ON-Ear bugs you, avoid. I personally can’t wear these for long gaming sessions as it hurts my ears after an hour or two.
Monoprice M1060C - This is at the top of your list at that price point. Plus you get that Planar low end.
***Bonus Headphones if you’re going with a separate Amp from the GSX:
Argons - obviously that’s only if you’re willing to wait. I plan on owning a set of these but oddly have yet to buy them.
Fostex T60RP - Dekoni Sheepskins. These are technically Semi-Open but I would take these over the M1060C because they sound amazing and at the same time are not as wide open as say the Sennheiser 58x (my #1 gaming recommendation for everyone).
***Bonus Dac/Amp/Headphone on the CHEAP special:
Creative SXFi Amp with Creative Auvana Live SE Headphones $169
the SXFI is using some crazy ass wizardry here that is amazing for gaming. Music sounds better than the GSX1000…although I didn’t actually directly compare the two…hmmm. I’d say I’ll compare them this weekend, but realistically I’m way to busy and will be way to lazy by the time I get the free time to compare them.
***Mic
As for mics, you can go for the ModMic or you can go for the cheaper knockoff, the Massdrop Minimic for $25 (when available). I own the Modmic 4 omni-directional and the 5 (set in Omni), I’m fairly certain the MiniMic is the ModMic 4 omni-directional with a crappier mounting system (velcro). All the reviews I’ve seen rate the mic pretty high up there.
Some people prefer to use Uni because it blocks out keyboard sounds but those are the same monsters that don’t use push-to-talk. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!?!
TL/DR: GSX1000 is great for gaming, decent for Music in HD mode only. Recommend seperate Dac/Amp setup. Scroll up to look at the recommendations.
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I agree with this regarding GSX1K. For this thread, it’s already no longer considered, so its a moot point. But in general its hard to recommend because it has awesome gaming features and 7.1 is so much better surround than Dolby Atmos-- by a lot, but it lacks in many other ways as well.
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. A lot of useful information there.
Here are the results of my search so far:
(by the way the “Total under $1000” was in Canadian Dollars)
Amp / Dac: Currently, my top picks for this category would be;
- Schiit Modi3 Dac + Magni3 Amp = $200 USD
- JDS Labs OL Dac + Atom Amp = $200 USD
- Topping MX3 Dac/Amp = $170 CAD
From the reviews and comments I’ve seen, I think I’m leaning more towards either #2 or #3. After having seen Zeos review on the MX3 I was sold, but now I’m also wondering… is the JDS stack better than the MX3 combo unit from Topping?
As for the Sennheiser GSX1000, it’s more expensive than the JDS stack, and from what I’m reading the JDS stack would be superior. I will just have to play around with the EQ and maybe set up 1 profile for music and a different profile for gaming. Also as you say the GSX can’t drive some headsets, I would be worried about buying a set and the GSX only to discover that the GSX is not strong enough to drive it.
Headphones: Currently, my top picks for this category would be; (in no particular order)
- Argon Mk3 + Mods = $375 USD (Hard to drive)
- Monolith M1060C = $473CAD (Easy to drive)
- Beyerdynamic DT770Pro = $230CAD (Hard to drive)
- Audio Technica Ath-Ws1100is = $322CAD (Easy to drive)
This category is the hardest because all the reviews are good and how to pick between them? I don’t know. I like the Argons but I’m also not too happy about waiting 9 weeks to get them. I’m also worried about how they would sound plugged into my phone without an amp. Once I get home and plug them into one of the Dac + Amp stacks above it won’t be a problem anymore, but while on the go I still want to have good quality sound at medium/loud volume with lots of bass.
This is the part where I’m conflicted. Do I get a hard to drive headset and look at buying a portable amp to get the most out of them (as well as the Dac + Amp stack above) OR do I just pick one of the easy to drive headsets? the M1060C and ATH-WS1100is both look like great candidates.
~Agh~ I never thought it would be this hard LOL.
It is a buyer market.
One note on the DT 770 Pro, you can get it with as little as 32 ohms which should work well both mobile and at your desktop.
oh ok, good point. but the real question is; between DT770, M1060C, and WS1100is, which one of them is the best? Best Sound quality, best bass, best imaging (sound positioning in virtual surround) and Best Sound Stage?
Also if we take the “Easy/Hard” to drive aspect out of the picture for a sec, would you guys say that the Argons are the best of these 4 choices?
m1060c hands down to me sounds the best out of the 3. value wise the 770 wins for me.