🔷 Neumann NDH20

[M0N]

@ooloo

So, ok… the Focals are better. Now the problem is, how much better? They’re about 2,5 times more expensive. Are they at least 25% better in clarity and overall balance?

That’s something that’s up to the listener to decide lol, also it depends on what you drive them with too. All I will say is that imo the sound justifies the cost, at least it did for me, but I can’t really give an arbitrary numbers since it can vary from person to person.

@ooloo

I’ve read that the Focals have “metallic sound”. Is that the case? Also, I’ve read here and elsewhere that they’re not true to the source bc of inaccurate timbre. Are the Neumanns better in this? That matters to me bc that’s a very important feature in sound design.

So I would agree the timbre of the clear is a tad metallic compared to something like an hd600, but imo more than usable. I do think the ndh20 has a bit better timbre, but really I think the benefits of the clear outweigh the downsides in this case. Also their timbre is affected by what’s driving them, one of the reasons why I like the rnhp with it is because it really gives it a more natural timbre (and more natural overall), going out of your interface it would most likely be lacking for timbre for you (again it’s amp picky). No headphones are really going to be true to the source is what I’ve found out. My main headphones I use for mastering are a warwick aperio system, and I would say they are great but still not “true to the source” imo.

I think if you get a clear, it’s good to have a timbre check headphone like an hd600 or something, the ndh20 would work well for this too. For me I go through a rotation of headphones during mastering so I can get good references on how things sound and make sure a single headphone isn’t skewing my work

[ooloo]

Your probably right! I’ve maybe heard some smaaaaal difference but, as I said, i couldn’t hear any worthwhile differences. I could hear something but it wasn’t clear to me was it better or not.

Sometimes even better is not better. One example in Samplitude, a digital work station that i use (ok now i just saw that you probably know what it is ), among others. That software has a playback machine that sounds better than most of others and better than any consumer based player that I know of and during mixing i have to compensate that all the time bc the music needs to sound ultra-detailed in Samplitude to sound kind-of-detailed elsewhere. Same problem can be with monitoring. The Neumann speakers have these things in balance, enough detail and flatness to be true monitors, not too much that would make me lost in the woods.
The NDH 20s are almost too detailed but i have the speakers to bring me back to reality. That being said, I wouldn’t mind better headphones!

Edit: typos

[M0N]

@ooloo

I’ve maybe heard some smaaaaal difference but, as I said, i couldn’t hear any worthwhile differences. I couldn’t hear something but it wasn’t clear to me was it better or not.

Yes, this can happen for sure, really just depends.

@ooloo

Sometimes even better is not better. One example in Samplitude, a digital work station that i use, among others.

Heyyy I use Sequoia lol, and others

@ooloo

during mixing i have to compensate that all the time bc the music needs to sound ultra-detailed in Samplitude to sound kind-of-detailed elsewhere

Yes lol, you really need to overdo it so it sounds good on most average equipmen

@ooloo

Same problem can be with monitoring. The Neumann speakers have these things in balance, enough detail and flatness to be true monitors, not too much that i would make be lost in the woods.

Yes, I really wouldn’t recommend the clears for monitoring, too dynamic, too open sounding, and too natural, you want a more forward sound with a bit of compression and closeness, the clear can sometimes extend too far

[ooloo]

I’m sold! Now i need to think about money

[ooloo]

@M0N

Yes, I really wouldn’t recommend the clears for monitoring, too dynamic, too open sounding, and too natural, you want a more forward sound with a bit of compression and closeness, the clear can sometimes extend too far

I was afraid that might be the case! Im lost lol
I need to think about that a bit now! I’ll try to work more on the NDH20s in next few days and to try to find faults in them, any faults in sound design and production in general. Shall see!

Thanks everybody!

[M0N]

Yeah, if you feel satisfied with the ndh20, and can live with it comfort wise, you might be better off sticking with that if you aren’t ready to go to the next jump. The best headphones for audio production are the ones you know how to work with the best lol (as long as they are at least decent)

[ooloo]

M0N, i see that you differentiate between monitoring and mixing, as separate stages. What do you mean by monitoring? Do you mean tracking? …that first stage when recording?
Because monitoring to me just means critical listening in any stage of music production, from tracking/recording to mixing and mastering.

[M0N]

@ooloo

What do you mean by monitoring? Do you mean tracking? …that first stage when recording?

So how I learned it, tracking is the first stage with recording, but monitoring can apply to listening in on the tracking process, and also listening in on the mixing process, but not actually doing like critical listening. But now that I think about it that’s most likely not the most widely accepted usage of that word lol

For critical listening and actual changes I would group that more into the respective process of mixing or tracking, monitoring has always meant more of a casual term to me (as in like just making sure nothing is royally fucking up, but not really listening deeply)

[ooloo]

I’m just asking bc you said that you wouldn’t actually recommended the Clears for monitoring so I’m trying to understand what that is.

[M0N]

Apologies, to really clarify now lol, I wouldn’t recommend the clears for tracking or casual listening (at least casual in terms of checking if things are ok), if you are mixing or mastering they are a great choice

[Ss3trnks2]

Fixing the comfort problem, cause why not.

After I had these for about a week, I felt it had way to much clamping force, I didn’t like the plastic-y/memory foam earpads and the headband sucked. So I ordered some brainwavz round earpads Brainwavz Round Earpads to start with. ( I wanted the sheepskin, but settled on the pu leather for now until sheepskin stuff starts to show up more again post global issues) Got them in and the inner ring that attaches to the headphone is way to small to fit the ndh20’s larger cup attachment ring. Easy fix, electrician scissors (they probably won’t be strong enough for sheepskin, will cross that bridge when we get there) that problem is fixed and now the earpads both have more space since they are 30mm thick vs the 25 from the stock pads and they are just overall more comfortable.

Then I moved onto the next issue, the headband. I saw that another person on here tried using the zmf pilot Pilot Pad Link, so I looked into it and decided to do the same. So I ordered the sheepskin version of it and it came in a few days ago. Found out again that it was a little to small to fit these bad boys mostly due to the rubber tracks on both sides of the headbands (fyi, I work in I.T. on laptops and phones, so this next part may not be for everybody). So I completely disassembled the headband and in the process found out 3 things. 1. It’s pretty easy to take apart for a headphone which are in many cases kinda janky with adhesives, weird screws etc…, but be careful of small screws escaping you. 2. The rubber tracks on both sides of the headband cause the clamping force issue as well as the size issue for the replacement pilot headband.

3. The headband pad we all think is to thin, is actually WAY to thin…my god

Now, that both have been replaced, the comfort issue has been resolved as the clamping force issue is non existent and the earpads are just less hurtful over long usage. So how does it affect the sound, I do hear a very slight reduction in the mids and I do mean SLIGHT and honestly not much else, maybe a little extra in highs and lows, it really doesn’t seem to do a whole lot to these when compared to what pads do to a lot of other headphones.

I’m happy with how it went and am still waiting on my replacement cable to arrive (next week hopefully), but I’m happy with them and they will likely be my daily driver for a long while.

Extra photos:

Half re-assembled headband (where I’m going to leave it with the new headband on it, but with screws inserted back in for structural integrity)

Some Final Modded photos

Edited: Formatting issues

[M0N]

Are there any major changes in sound from the pad change? Nice job

[Ss3trnks2]

Sorry, I buried it in the wall of text.

@Ss3trnks2

So how does it affect the sound, I do hear a very slight reduction in the mids and I do mean SLIGHT and honestly not much else, maybe a little extra in highs and lows, it really doesn’t seem to do a whole lot to these when compared to what pads do to a lot of other headphones.

[M0N]

Ah my bad, didn’t catch that, thanks for the info

[j.fopps]

May have to give that headband mod a try at some point

[Ss3trnks2]

It’s really nice, since it has a lot less clamping force, the earpads don’t compress as much anymore, which MAY mean that the stock pads cause a lot less comfort issues over extended listening. I probably won’t test this as it was a challenge to get the current pads on due to the trimming required for it to fit.

Just make sure to put all the screws that hold the band on, back into place before you put the new headband pad on, as some of those screws hold the two black plastic extension sheaths to the metal band as over time they could cause additional wear on the pilot pad if you do not.

[olinko]

This Neumanns-being-dark debate really surprised me
Also reminded me how vague the language of audiophilia is. “Warm” sometimes means bassy, sometimes just refers to the transition into the mids, sometimes means lacking in treble. It’s so difficult to catch up sometimes

I sure hope the Neumanns aren’t bass-dominant by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jared_S]

how are the ndh20 compared to the elex? As I read that they are both kinda neutral

[j.fopps]

Pretty different in my opinion. NDH20, if I had to give it a single bullet point it would probably be timbre. It sounds true to life in most ways. The Elex is a different animal in that it creates a space like no other set I’ve personally heard. It really is like youre in a huge room with musicians playing all around you. Also comparing a very closed set to a very open set here, so it’s kinda difficult for me to explain. I have both. I have more time with the NDH20s just because I’ve had them longer. The Elex are a very difficult set for me to describe, but I mean that in the best way possible. They are absolutely great.

[ooloo]

I wouldn’t call them bass heavy nor bass dominant, but surely bass confident.