New rig, new gear - need advice for immersion - anything up to 400ish EURO

Roknar · December 8, 2020, 8:15pm

I JUST came from that vid
I have mostly already set on the zen can/dac combo + dt880 600.
I like the way they look, I know they work for the 600 ohm version (meaning I don’t have to sift through a hundred other reviews XD) and I know I can get them. Having to make the headphones balanced would suck, but in this case I want to modify the cables anyway to avoid the issues I had with my last pair, so that’s a non issue.

Stumbled onto the video you mentioned and I figured, I can get a tube pre-amp for about the price I save from getting B-ware outlet 880s (should still be fine right?). So in that scenario, it wouldn’t even cost me anything since I would have spent the difference on getting new pairs as opposed to the outlet version. I was just hesitant in that 40 ish euro for next to no advantage is still 40 euros wasted that I could have spent on better cables.

That said, I have no idea how much of a difference that makes, seems to be pretty open ended with even 100 euro cables. Blows my mind. Given the zen dac already has the bass boost as you mentioned, and if cheap tubes aren’t worth it, maybe that would be a better choice?
Or use the savings to cover for desoni pads, seems those would provide much more of a change.

Falenkor · December 8, 2020, 8:19pm

what b stock from beyer directly? yeah those are fine… if not beyer should fix them for you

it’s not a big change but it’s alright, Worth a try but make sure theres a return policy just incase yea? some people really can’t hear the more subtle differences in sound.

personally, I would say skip the preamp don’t go nuts on the cables as you don’t need a super expensive cable lol definitely grab a pair of seperate pads as you will thank yourself later for the seperate sound signature, and get your zen + 880 600 ohm. If you feel the need to add tubes just do it later.

your already adding a a lot of bass to the 880… if you swap the pads thats a hell of a lot more filling in and warmth being added… less you want absolute overkill lol

Doegiz · December 8, 2020, 9:16pm

+1 on getting better pads for the 880s, definitely take a look at zeos recent video where he tries many different pads out on several Beyer headphones including the 880s if you want some good insight on how they will change up the sound signature

Roknar · December 8, 2020, 9:22pm

Been there, done that, looking forward to it
looks like I can get everythign apart from the pads via amazon and on stock.
Anything I’m missing here? I see people by the dac with a power brick, but I figured I’d try without first.

Falenkor · December 8, 2020, 9:26pm

You need a 4.4mm Pentaconn to Pentaconn balanced cable to connect the two units or a set of rca cables… also highly recommend purchasing a cable elsewhere if you can I’m sure someone here can recommend a place to get a higher quality cable for you so you get the best results. Your cable does matter and can improve sound(not to a ridiculous degree like some places claim)…

Zen does not come with its balanced cable nor the power supplies that improve their sound quality. It relies on usb out of the box for zen dac

Roknar · December 8, 2020, 9:41pm

The Zen dac comes with a rca to rca in the box as far as I can tell.
For power, I would be using it exclusively for my PC so the usb seemed fine to me. Lord knows I have enough free ports…For the cable yea, no idea if that’s good, it’s the only 3,5 to 4,4 that comes up.
Can’t be worse than the original cable I imagine. I mean, sure, a decent cable would be good, but the convenience of getting everything in one place is nothing to be sniffed at. Unless you really have doubts about that cable?

MazeFrame · December 8, 2020, 9:59pm

Perfect money to see if spending a lot on a good one is worth it.

Roknar · December 8, 2020, 10:05pm

good point

Falenkor · December 8, 2020, 11:39pm

I had this convo with @WaveTheory on these actually when I was setting up my speakers… it works very well I’ll admit I love the sound even connected to my asgard though I did upgrade to a better warmer tune preamp. I definitely think it’s worth trying but not really necessary if ones on a budget. Just my opinion… I definitely cant say it’s bad though for $30

I just have bad experiences with amazon cables like that… it’s why I solely use Hart Audio as their cables are amazing. Till I build my own cable.

Roknar · December 14, 2020, 12:17pm

OK, got my stuff, time to get crafty this evening.
What could possibly go wrong…

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 12:12am

Welp, not sure what went wrong.
I have sound on the left side. regardless of which 3,5 jack I use. Sounds ok at least.
More than that though, I am hearing left AND right on the left side.

Would this mean that the ground on my right driver isn’t properly connected?

**Update **
nah, opened them up again (right side), ground is giving me a signal and the hot wire from the driver to the jack too. Not getting any sound even if I only connect to the right jack.

I can’t really test the hot wire since the cables were already assembled, but I need an other order on amazon anyway, so I could get some naked 3,5s. Hoping somebody here might have an idea?
Also I’m guessing I would be better off asking this in the dt 880 thread?

Right now they are connected via RCA, I don’t NEED the 4,4 to 4,4 connector do I ?

MazeFrame · December 15, 2020, 1:09am

In order to not mislead you:
Your chain is Zen DAC → Zen Can → Pentacon to 2x 3.5mm mono → DT-880 right?

I would ensure your Pentacon to 3.5mm is wired up like you expect it to be. When they are TRS on the headphone side, Tip might be “floating” on on the right side 3.5mm.

For Reference:
Pentacon pin out:

That is fine. Do you have any other headphone (craptastic in ears are good enough) to ensure correct operation on both devices?

Also get a known good 3.5mm to 3.5mm (or 6.3mm) to check you have nothing shorting out in the headphone.

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 12:52pm

In order to not mislead you:
Your chain is `Zen DAC → Zen Can → Pentacon to 2x 3.5mm mono → DT-880`  right?

Yes that is correct. DT880 600ohm.
What do you mean by “floating”? As in physically not making contact?
As for testing with another cable, no can do, I have one 3,5 to 3,5, but unfortunately, I can’t fit it into the connectors due to the nut getting in the way. And that is with getting it on as tight as as I could, there really isn’t enough thread. I am considering to remove a bit more material to allow the nut to go further up. As it is, it seems pretty solid and the 3,5s I have do connect, so it’s not a priority for now.

As for troubleshooting, I was able to cannibalize some old cable. The jack isn’t quite what I expected from looking at schematics but I think it’s pointing to faulty connector.
I had the mirrored version:

So I left the extreme left (in white) with the yellow marker and what I take is the ground on the extreme right (in black), then connected them to the long latch (black) and L pin (white) (as per the screenshot below)
I also did the same on the right with the red wire going to the longer latch.

For the left cup I get get some values for certain paths, I’m not sure what that means.
Given that the driver is crackling though when I do that, I presume that means it’s good, sign in that there is current going through the driver.

For the right cup, I would expect the same results but I’m not getting any signal like I am getting on the left side. So I’m guessing the connector is no good, or at least the left side with the hot wire. They are somewhat loose on all of them, I wasn’t sure if this was intentional or not. I guess not?

About the cable I’m not sure, shouldn’t there be 3 circuits for the the lower jack? (all just beep)
update
I double-checked this one as it seemed weird. I must not have made contact properly.
When I checked now, the middle pole when to the same pole as the longer part, ie mirroring the left side. So this looks ok to me.

And just in case it wasn’t abundantly clear yet, I have no idea what I’m doing lol.
Had the gear lying around to get into this stuff, but that never happened.
This is literally the first time I turned on the soldering iron after having it for like 7ish years XD

appreciate the help as usual.

MazeFrame · December 15, 2020, 5:46pm

Okay.

Floating as in “not connected”.

Would have made trouble shooting easier, but can work arround that.

I have some concerns regarding
You are running balanced, right? (Or at least trying to)

Means there should be 2 wires going from each driver to the connectors (so left driver and left connector are connected by two wires, same for the right side. No wires running from connector to connector, no wires running from driver to driver)

If you were to wire this up so any 3.5mm Y-splitter works, you would do it like this:

A bit wierd to have Ring be floating on what would be the right side (since Ring is Right on TRS-single ended).
So for your specific case, you want to connect Tip and Sleeve to the drivers in your headphone.

What am I looking at?

The “beep” on multimetes is mostly worthless (is 2 Ohm beep? 20? 200?). Anything in the hundred kilo ohm range means no connection (in this instance), mega ohm is definetly no connection.

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 6:18pm

I’m working on some more screens, but the manual says beep is less than 10 ohm.
What you’re looking at is the results from probing the various tabs with the plugged in naked jack in the screenshot.

So for he left cup for example I have continuity from the longer latch (so should be ground) to the first ring on what would hidden by a casing. With the hot wire having continuity to the lowest ring (or rightmost in in the screen)

Left cup:

Right cup:

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 6:51pm

huh…
sooo…
in the end it seems th root cause was simply that the jack didn’t go in far enough.
These connectors aere really tight. I was measuring the left over ones, being all but resolved to resoldering. Including the right cup, and to my surprise, I got continuity this time.

So I tried the cable again but this time really jamming the jack in there. And lo and behold, there was sound.

So nothing was wrong … It’s just that the connection is a little finnicky.
We have lift off after all !.

Big thanks to you all :).
(already considering to replace/sleeve the cable though as these audibly clatter against the casing XD)

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 7:29pm

Pics or it didn’t happen:

I closed the holes with UV resin, though I didn’t wait long enough for it to fully settle, that’s why there are those rings on the top holes. I just put some electrical tape on the outside and poured in from the inside.

Roknar · December 15, 2020, 9:29pm

Ok, I’m testing the tube pre-amp.
It seems to take of the edge off, in a good way.
I wouldn’t necessarily describe the sound as better, but more…agreeable?
Point is I like it, so thanks for the suggestion MazeFrame, I probably would have skipped it otherwise.
At the same time, I have trouble imagining a more expensive tube amp could add much to what I already have, so I’m happy I only spend like 30-40 euro on it.

At this point I have say there is plenty bass, it sounds great. It’s just doesn’t FEEL anything like the JVC HA-SZ2000, those really rocked you. Then again, I’m not missing them, these are leagues above in sound quality. Going to have to try some games, but otherwise this has been going better than I could hope for.

Falenkor · December 16, 2020, 2:46am

What the 880? Easy fix. Get a pair of either leather pads or suede. Bass will become heavily emphasized and more warm.

Roknar · December 16, 2020, 6:48pm

I’m having difficulties finding dekoni over here, I can get them, it’s just going to take me some time.
I’m still have an old pair of HM5 brainwavz pads that I’m trying and it’s not quite 2000s level but pretty darn close. The Bass really got pushed up a lot and punchier, but I lost clarity too. Sound is getting a little muddy, at least compared to before.

Any idea how the dekoni pads would compare?
Thinking of the choice suede or sheepskin.