Oof. So damn many options, my head is spinning!

So, I’m not a hobbyist. Not an ‘experienced audiophile’ or such. I -DO- on the other hand spend a ridiculous amount of time in my headphones. It wasn’t always so, but hey, there it is. I have the luxury of being able to listen to whatever I want while working from home, so I spend most of the day listening to music at my desk. My taste in music is incredibly varied. I do mean VERY varied.

Then, after hours, when I’m not working, I watch movies, TV series, or play games. All in my cans. It isn’t uncommon for me to spend 13+ hours a day with these things on my ears.

When I first decided to improve my audio experience about 3-4 years ago iirc, I looked into some of the basics. I ended up with a Fiio E-10 and a pair of Audiotechnica ATH-M40X. This setup has served me well, but with a couple of complaints.

Complaint 1: These headphones aren’t as comfortable as I would like. They can make my ears feel a little claustrophobic. I replaced the pads about a year ago with a softer hybrid surface memory foam pad which has helped, but the opening for my ears still feels a little crowded. I also added a knit headband pad which helps the top of my head a little, but after a few hours they really do wear on me.

Complaint 2: The sound is a little close, and a little tiring sometimes. I use equalizer APO with plugins for my mic, so I decided to look into what EQ could do for the ear parts. I found some presets that attempt to correct the frequency response of different headphones to closely match the Harmon curve (a compromise in and of itself, being constructed out of the frequency response preferences of a bunch of different people) and demo’d two different presets for my headphones for a couple of weeks each, often switching back to no EQ to really suss out what I liked. One of those presets does help with ear fatigue, and helps add some fullness and presence (especially at the lower end) without sacrificing the rest of the sound at all. I like it, and have been using it since.

I am about ready to take the next step, and want to make a real, noticeable improvement on all fronts. It is really REALLY hard to figure out where to go from here! Since this post is already turning into a book, I’ll try to summarize:

1: Closed, or maybe semi-open at best are the only real options for headphones. My wife who works with me does not share many of my tastes in music, and is easily annoyed if she can hear my music too loudly. Also, the room is sometimes noisy and chaotic, and I prefer the isolation of a closed back

2: I will have a total budget of roughly $1000-$1200 or thereabouts. This will need to include a DAC, an amp, and one set of headphones.

3: I am most concerned with not losing ANY imaging. While I don’t fancy myself “competitive” I really DO rely on my ears in games to give me reliable positioning cues. These headphones have been a blessing in that regard, and am looking for something at least as good, hopefully better.

4: My next priority is probably a bigger soundstage. I know this can be a challenge with closed back cans, but these M40’s are REALLY intimate with my eardrums!

5: Comfort for all day listening. A bigger space for my ears (the actual radius of the inside of the pads is a bigger problem right now than the distance from my ear to the driver, but that could be a little bigger too), while being comfortably light to wear, and not pressing down harshly on top of the melon.

Obviously, I don’t want anything that wouldn’t sound noticeably better than my current 'phones while listening to music all day. Sufficient bass, clarity, and separation with AT LEAST as much detail

Given the budget, I don’t think that should be particularly difficult.

I’ve been TRYING to learn all I could. I’ve been all over youtube for about a year, and exercising my Google-fu, in an effort to settle on some products. The current theory looks something like this:

Headphones: T-60 Argons or DT770. I am leaning towards the T-60 Argons, as a balanced setup is beginning to appeal to me the more I learn.

Amp: THX 789, Schiit Magnius, or Topping A-30 Pro. I kinda want to spring for the A-90, but am not sure I can fit it into the budget.

Dac: Schiit Modius, S.M.S.L M300 MKII, or Geshelli J2.

My biggest problems at the moment are twofold: With so many options, and so little opportunity to demo them myself, how in the hell am I supposed to tell which among them would suit my needs? Also, with audio being so subjective in the first place, it gets very circular to read or watch reviews when different reviewers all disagree about even fundamental differences in devices.

So if you’ve made it this far, thank you for your patience with my rambling. If you have thoughts, observations, or advice, I sure could use your help. If the gear I put forward in the current theory would be a big disappointment given my pretty demanding use case, I would sure love to know it BEFORE I spend the money. On the other hand, if there’s a better option I didn’t list that would fit the budget, I would sure love to know that too!

3 Likes

Since you are just starting out, maybe you should lean towards the cheaper amp/dacs like the JDS labs atom/ atom dac, or something more on the warmer side like the liquid spark? Then spend most of your budget on the headphone since that makes the biggest difference in sound. Unfortunately I don’t have enough experience with headphones to recommend something. sorry

1 Like

That may be wise. Certainly worth mulling over. Thank you.

Although I do wonder if I went with a balanced 'phone, wouldn’t I need a somewhat pricier amp to take advantage of that?

I think headphones that have all day comfort and have what you are looking for would probably be Dan Clark audio aeon RT closed backs. Pretty big staging, great details, great bass and maybe the only con is your ears may touch the driver area. Mine do bit not in an uncomfortable way.
I would also through the schitt HEL and JDS Labs EL stack or element 2 DAC/amp for AIO single ended amazingness.
Out of your choices I’d go with the topping or schitt stacks as they would perform great.

I’d say the budget repartition depends on your end-goal. If you plan on buying new headphones quite often, then you can spend a bit of money to ensure you have a source that will be able to drive your future purchases.
If this buy is a “definitive” one, do spend the most on the headphones.

Don’t bother with balanced output: that’s for the hobbyists and/or really specific headphones.

For your sound preferences and comfort requirements i would recommend a aeon RT closed and as a DAC Amp combo a modi magni stack should do
Only reason to get better gear should you decide to jump in to our rabbit hole :joy: and get more HP and iem later :wink:

Focal Elegia

2 Likes

Bingo exactly what I was going to recommend. This is so easy Elegia is the way to go. You can get that for $400 comfortable for all day listening. Big soundstage closed back relatively easy to drive V E R Y fun punchy open back just excellent if I could own 1 open back this would be it [personally]

Any of those dacs will be sufficient that should leave just enough for a nice amp. $300

Something like a flux labs 12as class A very warm solid state excellent dynamics to match the eligia. $500

A buddy of mine had this exact combo and sounded incredible

$1200 total audiophile combo definitely a step above a lot of schitt stack combos for sure.

Budget stretch if you can spare it the extra $100 is well worth stepping to the Singxer SA-1 also another killer class A amp [does go on sale on drop occasionally for $500]

1 Like

The only way your going to know is to buy and try. Many ok recommendations here.

Buy from a dealer where you can return the item if your not happy with it.

Buy things that you can easily re-sell.

I dont want to start a food fight here but if you PM me I would be glad to elaborate.

Good Luck!
Alex

1 Like

Can you describe this a little more? You seem to like more bass presence but what is fatiguing you with the M40x? Mids? Treble?

As @lost33 suggests some rounds of buy and try are often needed in this hobby. At least in the US, there is a fairly robust used market where you can significantly reduce your losses if a thing doesn’t work out for you.

Anyway, I have a couple ideas for you but want to know more about what frequency ranges you find fatiguing first.

1 Like

Typo I’m sure, but 2 of the 3 times you say open back. Just don’t want to confuse the guy.

I agree with @Thotstomp aseesment, very comfortable, fun and pretty wide soundstage for a closed back. I very much enjoy my Elegia’s. Not as punchy as I would like on the low end, but very natural and well produced. I think they take well to a bit of eq if you feel the need

2 Likes

Aeon 2 closed?

Comfort, although subjective for everyone, is top notch. Compared to what ive tried.

Sound isolation is very good. You will probably have a problem hearing your wife if shes calling to you.

Great detail, very good imaging, and good soundstage compared to other closed backs.

They are neutral in sound presentation. It also has tuning filters that can be stacked on each other. You put them into the cups to adjust the sound if stock neutral isnt to your liking and so I feel there is value there if you dont mind playing with filters.

Topping e30 or other dac and asgard 3 will power them well.

After a few hours of listening without the EQ, it’s almost like the space immediately behind my hears is being squeezed. I think it might be high frequency sounds, but I could be wrong. What I can say is that looking at the EQ curve, there’s a cut at about 780 hz and a decent dip starting at 11k up to about 20k.

Thank you all so much. This is a little overwhelming, but I am trying to take it all in.

So, there’s a lot of different recommendations here. Many of which I’ve not yet heard of. This is, of course, both a good and bad thing.

I am going to start by looking up some reviews of the products mentioned here and becoming more informed about them. I came here for advice, and got what I came for. It seems to me foolish to then discard that advice, so I don’t want to sound ungrateful but I need to ask this follow up;

I had seen elsewhere the advice that you should spend the most on the headphones, since they make the most difference. While I can certainly admit that price is /often/ correlated with performance, very often in reviews I will hear either a positive “this product outperforms many products with a much higher price tag” or the opposite “this product is pretty good, but it is priced way above its performance”. This really muddies the water.

Also, when I think “spend the most on headphones” part of me really wonders if I wouldn’t be better off dumping my whole budget on cans, and plug them right into the cute little Fiio e-10 already sitting on my desk. Isn’t there a point where you severely mismatch your gear if you’re running $1200 headphones on a $75 combo dac/amp? Doesn’t this basically result in having the same audio experience you would get from a MUCH cheaper headphone on that source?

Like I said, I don’t want to sound like I am discarding the fantastic advice you all are offering, I am just trying not to drown in too much information.

I agree, trying to figure out what will work best for you is a daunting task. I find the head phone area to be the most confusing. And I know, I have heard the talk about how you should spend the most on the cans, but I don’t know about that really. I can’t see spending 1-2 grand on head phones. I just can’t. Not without trying them first. But that is just me, and I am certainly no expert, here.

For what it’s worth, I started very small with a little Topping MX-3 and worked my way up from there, each step of the way prefaced by long and tedious research sessions. To me that is half the fun, really! Best of luck in your search. The main thing is… have fun with it.

It’s normal and sane to ask yourself (and others) some questions :wink:

One thing to keep in mind with audio gear: their is no absolute best in anything: just characteristics choices and compromises (especially in the lower tiers) that will please you or not (or more or less, for that matter). This hobby is mainly about subjectivity.

Continue searching, continue learning, and then you will be able to make a choice/buy.

After that, you’ll have to profit from your gear.

And then… I think you already went too deep in the rabbit hole, so you’ll come back here and ask for info about some other gear :wink:

I think you’re right. Rabbit holes are a problem I am generally prone to, and this one seems to be sucking me in against my better judgement.

I set out originally to have that magical experience where you go over to a buddie’s place who has been an audiophile for decades, and try out his favorite setup, get blown away by how much great sound you never even knew you were missing, and go out and buy the same stuff, plug it in, and live the rest of your life knowing you made a solid choice because your buddy already did all the researching, buying and reselling, etc. It seems now like that wasn’t a very realistic plan.

OK - so the current theory looks more like this:

Cans: Focal Elegia - Amazon currently has these at $525.
Dac: Geshelli J2 with USB module upgrade $300
Amp: I am thinking that I could stretch my budget into Singxer SA-1 territory $600

So I’ve already blown my budget, and I am still a month or so away from having cash in hand to make actual purchase. Like I said, rabbit holes are a problem I am kind of prone to.

Is there anything I am overlooking? If anyone has experience with these 'phones, do they image well for gaming? How’s the non-music listening for lower quality sources like netflix?

Also, can anyone recommend a good balanced cable for these phones? It seems the stock cable is the common complaint among reviewers, being short, stiff, prone to catching and kinking, and not very pleasant. Since I’m going to want to upgrade the cable anyhow, and both the dac and amp run balanced, I might as well go that route (as it seems I am falling further and further into hobbyist territory with every review I watch or read, etc.)

The Elegias regularly go on sale on adorama for $399 and they have a 30 day return policy (minus any shipping costs). Check out hart audio cables for the cable (will have to snag an interconnect as well). The modular system is great and the owner @brux is on the forum here. Mention in the comments you are a hifi guides member and get 10% off.

1 Like