And you definitely don’t need an SA-1 to drive Elegias, I would probably go cheaper on the amp if that’s the headphone you’re looking at. Something like a Schiit Asgard or a JDS Labs EL amp or a Geshelli Archel 2.5 should be great for $200-ish.
Also, I would probably recommend against going balanced between the headphone and amp; staying single-ended will likely give you more for your money in this price bracket. (The three amps I recommended above are all single-ended output only.)
i had to login at my andorama account to get the reduced prices sometimes, so taht may help
otherwise i would say the singxer might be a bit overkill for the elegias but if you plan to get kater some HP that are harder to drive it certainly is a good amp
if you get the elegias let them burn in a few hours cause when i got them they were a bit peaky, not shure my brain did get burn in or the drive became a bit looser
afterwards its a nice HP and not to picky AMP wise but some friends find them a bit heavy for longer listening but dont worry there no audeze XD
This advice is pretty sound. With rare exception, this is best practice until you get into the range where headphones cost around $3K or more. Headphones reach their practical price limit well before speakers so that’s where it starts to make more sense to break this rule, at least for a first setup.
Yes. This does get confusing and IMO claims like “___ outperforms its price point” are way overused. Right now I can confidently name a grand total of 3 sub-$1K pieces that I know for sure punch above their weight: Senn 600/650/6xx, Beyer DT880 600 ohm, and Schiit Asgard 3. End of list. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other very good products under $1K that are also excellent values (that list is long!) but that those are the only ones that I can say with confidence truly have performance that belies their prices in the positive direction.
Thanks for clearing up the frequency questions above and this is where I think you’re likely just gonna have to take a buy-it-and-try-it approach. Based on your comments I’d consider the following:
option 1
Focal Elegia ($400), iFI Zen DAC V2 ($130), Schiit Asgard 3 ($199). The Elegia checks your boxes for isolation and spatial performance. In its stock tuning it does not check your boxes. However, it responds to EQ well, hence the Zen DAC recommendation, because the Zen’s bass boost is amazing, and when piped through a muscly amp like the Asgard 3 the Elegia’s bass can be a lot of fun and sound really good. You may still need to EQ down the frequency ranges you mentioned because the Elegia is a tad aggressive in those areas for some listeners.
There are two big drawbacks to this approach: 1) the availability of the Asgard 3. Schiit is very backed up right now (insert constipation joke here). If one is available, the Jotunheim 2 is a marginal upgrade from Asgard 3 but also costs $400. But…since you already spoke of upping your budget, you could look into a Lake People G111. I’d recommend that over the Singxer amp anytime. 2) If you don’t like the Elegia’s stock tuning and get tired of using EQ all the time (which can be a pain!) you might be stuck and have limited your options going forward, short of selling Elegia and getting a different headphone.
option 2
A headphone that checks just about all the boxes you’ve mentioned is another Focal, the Radiance (the one with Bentley’s name plastered on it for reasons that still don’t make a lot of sense). It’s bassy, warm, detailed, and has the spatial presentation you’re asking for. It’s also just shy of $1300 and will smash your current budget. That’s ok in the short term because it’s easy to drive. The little Fiio will power it fine for the time being. Down the road I’d save up some money and get an amp and dac for it. It will show you the benefits of good amps and dacs even moreso than Elegia will. I worry this headphone is too big a jump too fast and you may not recognize why it’s worth $1300 (which it absolutely is) and have some buyer’s remorse.
A final thought…it’s ok to say there isn’t one headphone that will do all you want it to do…especially with the budget you named. You can get a fun, bassy headphone for music (Meze 99 series, E-MU Teaks) and a more spatially exacting gaming headphone (DT880 600 ohm, if you can handle its semi-open design for gaming…but you must get a good amp for that one…Asgard 3 and G111 would still be my recs for it).
Ok folks - time for me to start figuring out some of my internal biases.
Isn’t there more to an amp than low noise and high power? I read comments and reviews on products that say things like “this amp makes all of my cans sound better” or “more detail, separation, and texture to the sound” vs the opposite about other products like “it has this manufacturer’s house sound, which makes everything seem a bit compressed, removing some of the more delicate texture to softer sounds”. I then get to thinking that some amps may be way more power than I need, but that they just /sound/ better - or is this just people’s confirmation bias because they spent a small fortune on an amp they didn’t need?
Same question for balanced audio - in this price bracket it seems like a very small change from an amp with a SE only output vs one that runs balanced (for example Archel 2.5 to Erish is only a $20 difference). Everyone keeps telling me not to bother with balanced, but that gets me wondering why it even exists at all if you can’t tell the difference at a $1,000+ price point. Is this just so much snake oil, or maybe it’s akin to trying to make a corvette engine operate a dump truck?
Snake oil for the most part.
Technically there are differences and reasons for balanced.
Discussed as naseum.
If you have long cable runs.
Want the best is IM distortion figures etc…crosstalk etc.
And some amp do spec out more power in balanced mode.
But if your cans are easy to drive this is not something that will make any real discern able real work differences.
The corvette analogy is a good one and I had three corvettes, and a few headphone dumptrucks.
THE most important thing are THE headphones. Period.
and how they work for you…
So many subjective things out there in this crazy pastime.
:>)
Note: There is more to low noise and high power and its often referred to a “voicing” and some amp vendors or engineers seriously take this into consideration with how they will “sound” or not sound. Most decent amps today have low distortion well below what you can detect or hear with headphones.
Also - I don’t mind using EQ, as the equalizer APO software keeps it applied, and you save the profile as a text file. If for some reason, you need to re-apply it, it’s a 30 second operation. Since the whole setup (cans and all) will remain at my desk full time, it really doesn’t add anything to the task flow of listening.
hm some would say very methodical but for starters let them play 12 to 24h with the volume a bit over your listening volume
i personaly give them 12h pink noise and 12h music, not shure it helps but it wont do them harm
I recommend going with WaveTheory’s option 1. The $500 RNHP (amp) is another great option and is an alternative the G111. It pairs excellently with the Focal Clear. Though I’m not sure about the Elegia.
When it comes to DACs at your price point, you should be focusing mainly on what features you want.
Cans: Focal Elegia - apparently they can be had for about $400. (thanks!)
Dac: Geshelli J2 with USB module upgrade $300
Amp: Did some reading on more recent suggestions, and am liking the idea of a Lake People G111 $550
This is pretty close to the budget I had in mind, and should give me room to grow - if I decide a different HP is for me then the dac and amp are more than capable, etc. However, from the reviews I am able to find so far, this 'phone sounds like its right up my alley, and I use the EQ for my mic all the time anyhow, might as well have a preset applied to my cans while I’m at it.
I think I’ve learned more in the last 24 hours than I did in the prior 24 days. Thanks!
If you /want/ to spend more money for better performance, the RNHP, Little Labs Monotor, and Lake People G111 are all great amps and they should all pair well with the Focal headphones. I still think you should be looking at more of a $200-ish price point amp to start off, but hey, it’s not like you’ll be unhappy if you buy any of the above $500-ish amps instead!
That is a bitching first setup!!! You definitely won’t need to upgrade hardware for a long time and you will be able to focus headphone changes in the future
If you listen to a Dan Clark headphone and hear the dead dynamics then listen to any of the focal line or fostex line they’re two of the most dynamic and punchy headphones. EQ will increase the bass amount but can’t change the core dynamics of the headphone.
I have never heard and Dan Clark phones. I do own Elegia and T60rp. I usually turn the base up a little bit through my Loki for the elegia and the T60’s don’t need it at all, especially with the ZMF suede pads. My personal opinion is the elegia are not as punchy as many say, but much better produced low end than the T60’s I think. Quality vs. quantity would probably be the key words here
Well the T60 is quite dynamic so makes sense with your listening references without something less lively to listen to its not easy to show it. But I agree with the quantity over quantity
I do own the 6xx and 4xx as well. I would consider the 6xx less lively overall. The 4xx as well, but I actually prefer for gaming out of all four (casual gamer here).
