So I had to choose between the amp section and the DAC section, so I chose the amp section. If upon reading this you went “huh, what do you mean amps don’t make a difference?” my reaction as well, but I’ve seen people (outside this forum) say that high end DACs and amps are as much snake oil as cables. There could be zero people on this forum who think amps don’t make a difference, but I know for a fact there are people who don’t believe DACs make a difference, or at least beyond $300, which is totally reasonable, and despite having a more expensive DAC, accept that it could be in my head, or down to my implementation choice vs the price. I haven’t heard anything in the middle, so I can’t make a fair assessment of whether that’s true, and I think there are multiple factors at play to realize the gains, as small or large as they are when you go north of $700 let’s say.
To the people that believe amps and/or DACs don’t make a difference beyond a few hundred dollars, out of sheer curiosity, what’s your experience like? Have you owned multiple high end DACs/amps paired with other expensive elements in the chain, lived with them for a long time, and after years in the hobby have finally realized there really isn’t that much of a difference? It just seems the people who tend to say this sort of stuff either have never spent serious time with the stuff, or heard 1 really expensive DAC or amp once for 5 minutes and in that alone went “Yep, total waste of money”. I guess for the people that have owned multiple expensive headphones, amps, and DACs, are there any of you out there that have been proven wrong and come to the realization that your $3K detailed AF headphones really do sound as good out of a $400 stack as a $4000 one, as long as the amp is powerful enough to drive your headphones? I’m not here to shame people that don’t own expensive stuff- there’s a distinct possibility you could enjoy your music more than someone with a $20K setup. I’m trying to find out if there’s a lot of validity to these claims of snake oil when it comes to amps or DACs, or if it’s just something people tell themselves who can’t afford to spend more, so they tell themselves this so they don’t feel like shit, rather than just being content with what they have and that 1) the quality of your file is going to be arguably the most important factor in your chain and 2) it doesn’t matter if it’s not the best it can possibly sound, as long as it brings you enjoyment
The law of diminishing returns exist in all things.
My somewhat pragmatic view is that if YOU can hear a difference, then there is one…only your opinion really matters when all is said and done.
I mean a Ferrari is just a car right. Yes it may be faster and more fun than your daily, but it still only gets you from A to B just the same, so is it worth 150K more than your daily…by any measurable judgement, no of course it isn’t… doesn’t stop people buying them though…same goes for hifi.
I personally think you should buy the best you can afford and just enjoy it and not get caught up in the whole “next big thing” hype… performance improvements tend to be in small increments so I’d only upgrade every 3-5 years after which you may hear an obvious benefit, plus it allows time to save up.
I agree- diminishing returns are a thing- I’m more talking about the people that believe there are ZERO returns above the $4/500 mark in either amps or DACs. I mean the people that tell you that if you believe your Ferrari is faster than a $20K Kia, it’s all in your head and you’re an idiot. Not a perfect analogy because you can measure speed in objective terms, so let’s modify it and say even if you don’t know how fast the car is going, if you believe you experience more intense acceleration in your Tesla Plaid than a Kia Sorento, it’s in your head
Ah yes, the " if it measures the same it sounds the same therefore the 5k dac sounds the same as the $400 DAC" brigade.
Well the thing is, in order to hear the difference between the 2 you need a very high resolution system soto some degree they have a point (though perhaps not the one they think they are making).
I wouldn’t recommend sticking a $5k DAC into a middling system as you may not get the full benefit but I’m pretty sure if you A B’d them In a really good hi res system,you would hear a difference (measurable or not). Now the cost/benefit ratio is another matter.
I suspect that none of the in the measure and be dammed brigade have ever done A, B testing with such a res system in fact I don’t even think they even listen to anything.
Exactly! I’m trying to find (if they exist) the people who have spent time listening to multiple DACs above $700 in higher end setups who believe they dont make a difference. The people that believe if 2 amps have the same measurements they must sound the same really blow my mind
i am sharing my experience, after reading “this iems needs power” or “it scales with power” i first bought a $40 meizu hifi pro dac that measured well on audiosiencereviews but i resold it because i could not hear a difference vs my sony phone internal dac.
i thought then, it may be my sub $130 iems that were not resolving enough to notice the source difference so i purchased the very resolving planar shuoer s12 iem and the $110 btr5 who is unanimously praised (wired usb dac mode on the 240mw balanced output) but then again i could not hear any significant difference vs my $10 apple dongle so i resold my btr5 and i am now forced to conclude that source is not making a difference to untrained ears such as mine.
i now use the $10 apple dongle because my 2009 macbook internal dac sounded worse but still no noticeable difference between btr5 and my 2014 phone internal dac on a resolving planar iem so for those who own high impedance full size headphones, a souce with more power make sense but not for any iems i own.
That is entirely the point…if you don’t hear it then that’s all that matters.
The measurement brigade would argue that the btr5 measures better than your dingle dac (or vica versa) therefore it must be better.
But you have made that decision subjectively and not solely down to measurement and at the end of the day, listening to music (which is the whole point after all) is a purely subjective exercise.
That’s not to say that marketing, pier pressure etc won’t affect our buying decisions…that’s part of the human condition.
yes that was precisely my point, eventhough this planar iem is more power hungry than my other iems (DD, or DD+BA or DD+BA+piezzo) it could still be powered with a 31mW $10 apple dac and did not require the 240mW of the $110 btr5 ( i was told bass would saturate if it lacked power but i did not hear such a thing, bass quality and quantity was identical. hence my conculsion that iems don’t require more than a $10 dac.